FROST DK in Mythic+ !

[Creatinebrah]

The Hunter/Mage/DK group is by far the most insane thing Ive ever seen as far as dungeon damage goes.

Trash packs die almost instantly and we dont even worry about bolstering due to how much damage we're doing (Most of the time we're all around 1.3m for the first few seconds, and tapper off to around 1m when the packs die)

The Mage/Hunter do carry the boss damage when their CDs are up, but every other boss or so, when the CDS are used on Trash, I'm normally 1st on pure boss damage.

Our Holy pally also does around 130k ST on bosses, due to the fact he rarely has to heal the warrior, and none of us stand in things. Trash dies so fast, he dps's most of that aswell.

i'm honestly genuinely curious hence why i'm so eager to see a log from a run of yours. do you have any logs from any m+ at all?

[Coldvibes]

I don't know about a Havoc DH much anymore but there's nothing an FDK can do that a WW can't right now. I am sold on Frost DKs though, just not if they're the absolute best for trash clear yet.

[Nemesquish]

i'm honestly genuinely curious hence why i'm so eager to see a log from a run of yours. do you have any logs from any m+ at all?

I had assumed the warrior did log the last few runs, as our other players in guild who log (Judekin, Our boomkin for example) Dont turn them off after raid, and any instance she does is logged.

But Tyler (the warrior mentioned above) did indeed turn them off. The only ones I can pull up on Warcraft logs are low level ones I tanked (like 2s and 3s) and only 3 or so of those.

[Dahti]

I don't know about a Havoc DH much anymore but there's nothing an FDK can do that a WW can't right now. I am sold on Frost DKs though, just not if they're the absolute best for trash clear yet.

The thing frost brings over WW is bres. A wipe on some bosses (bubble boss in EoA) can set your timer back a substantial amount, being able to get up a tank or heal is huge.

I've also had a lot of success with FDK, MM hunter and fire mage.

Though I am switching to druid

[Creatinebrah]

does FDK trump over unholy in m+?

[Protean]

don't use addons to measure your dps. details/skada/recount all give different numbers. just use warcraftlogs method of uploading the text file

My experience with Details! is that it matches up with uploaded logs 100%, all the time.

Checked often enough that I feel no need to mistrust it anymore.

[Nemesquish]

does FDK trump over unholy in m+?

It would really depend on your comp, Frost DK is going to do more Trash/Cleave damage than Unholy, so if you have a strong ST class backing you up, Frost would be a better choice at higher difficulty.

Where as if you have better cleave classes, and low ST group damage, Unholy will be better.

[Reckonize]

Doing 3 chest 7's and 8s, I was well ahead of our Mage and Hunter. Frost DK is one of the top dps specs for overall instance damage (Which is the real meter in high level mythic +s)

Stat priority will be the same as raiding Crit to around 35%>Mastery>Haste.

Talents: Talons, Pulse,Icecap,WinterIsCome,??,Scythe, GA

Icecap over Avalanche because you want Pillar up for as much damage/Stuns as possible each pack.

RW on CD, Make sure you are positioning yourself so Glacial Advance hits all the mobs in the pack, Spam Scythe while refreshing Talons as late as possible.

If your on mumble/Vent with your group, make sure you call your kicks/Stuns. Enjoy fat loot.

MFW when I was going to be a Frost DK and went with Havoc DH instead...

[Nemesquish]

MFW when I was going to be a Frost DK and went with Havoc DH instead...

Havoc is still pretty good for Mythic+'s and as the links on the previous page show, its one of the higher dps specs. So that wasnt really a WRONG choice, But Havoc's ST inside of CDs is probably better than Frosts. So its a decent trade off.

Either way, both specs are extremely solid, it just takes some solid gear, and proper stats to make Frost really really good at chopping adds.

[Reckonize]

Havoc is still pretty good for Mythic+'s and as the links on the previous page show, its one of the higher dps specs. So that wasnt really a WRONG choice, But Havoc's ST inside of CDs is probably better than Frosts. So its a decent trade off.

Either way, both specs are extremely solid, it just takes some solid gear, and proper stats to make Frost really really good at chopping adds.

Yeah I know it's solid, but in terms of playability I thought "cool I fel rush and vengeful retreat into the rotation, that's awesome!" 3 months later, it's not awesome anymore.

[Nemesquish]

Yeah I know it's solid, but in terms of playability I thought "cool I fel rush and vengeful retreat into the rotation, that's awesome!" 3 months later, it's not awesome anymore.

Yea, Honestly I did the same thing lol...We have raiding alts for split runs, mine happens to be a DH...I no longer enjoy playing him.

[0verdose]

Frost is great at mythic +7 and up when it comes to trash. It's so bad st that I don't even bother playing it but once 7.1 comes out I think that frost will be the way to go for upper lvl of m+

[Creatinebrah]

@Nemesquish when considering overall damage, how big is the disparity between unholy and frost?

i'm reading some of the other posts around here and peopel saying the unholy bracers are ridiculously stronger than the other legendaries. how are the legendaries for frost? i'm strictly speaking about mythic+ not raids.

[Nemesquish]

@Nemesquish when considering overall damage, how big is the disparity between unholy and frost?

i'm reading some of the other posts around here and peopel saying the unholy bracers are ridiculously stronger than the other legendaries. how are the legendaries for frost? i'm strictly speaking about mythic+ not raids.

The only "good" legendary for Frost, is also the Bracers...Just a straight up 15% increase Frost damage with Pillar up (With Icecap its basically every other pack)
My current SF crits top end for around 2.8m So just adding 15% to that would help decimate 3 pulls per instance (thats about how many I get pushing 3 chests).

Not to mention the extra damage on Scythe. Its extremely strong.

The oblit belt might be decent for ST, and the helm could be interesting if you want to risk fishing for a Rime proc after you get Tier 2 set. (40% more increase damage on a Rime is pretty insane after 7.1)

[Deleted]

The only "good" legendary for Frost, is also the Bracers...Just a straight up 15% increase Frost damage with Pillar up (With Icecap its basically every other pack)
My current SF crits top end for around 2.8m So just adding 15% to that would help decimate 3 pulls per instance (thats about how many I get pushing 3 chests).

Not to mention the extra damage on Scythe. Its extremely strong.

The oblit belt might be decent for ST, and the helm could be interesting if you want to risk fishing for a Rime proc after you get Tier 2 set. (40% more increase damage on a Rime is pretty insane after 7.1)

Hey Phenom! Exactly how good is that trinket: "Faulty Countermeasure"? I realise the logic of it but is it worth farming when I have Angerboda(855)+WQ trinket that gives straight STR and CRIT (840ilvl)

thx!

[Raiz]

i'm honestly genuinely curious hence why i'm so eager to see a log from a run of yours. do you have any logs from any m+ at all?

Why do you think it's hard to believe Frost is doing a lot of damage ? In simpler term, you have Frostscythe + KM or Passive Crit on 2+ targets resulting in a lot of damage. And you can use them endlessly, at least until you get no more runes.

Almost all of the Frost's arsenal is based on AoE. I don't like playing Frost, but pretty much every serious DK would understand that the Frost spec is really solid in mythic dungeons.

Compare that to Unholy : Epidemic which has 3 charges, DnD which has a CD, or Festering bursts which need to have Festering wounds first. If I had to guess, I'd say they're both doing comparable damage, except Unholy is a little slower because of the ramp up time.

Now I can't speak for higher mythic as I've never played them, but I'd not be surprised to see Frost doing well really.

[Creatinebrah]

Why do you think it's hard to believe Frost is doing a lot of damage ? In simpler term, you have Frostscythe + KM or Passive Crit on 2+ targets resulting in a lot of damage. And you can use them endlessly, at least until you get no more runes.

Almost all of the Frost's arsenal is based on AoE. I don't like playing Frost, but pretty much every serious DK would understand that the Frost spec is really solid in mythic dungeons.

Compare that to Unholy : Epidemic which has 3 charges, DnD which has a CD, or Festering bursts which need to have Festering wounds first. If I had to guess, I'd say they're both doing comparable damage, except Unholy is a little slower because of the ramp up time.

Now I can't speak for higher mythic as I've never played them, but I'd not be surprised to see Frost doing well really.

i find it hard to believe because i haven't run into a DK with any respectable damage but Nemesquish seems like he knows his stuff so i'm asking questions.

also, another reason is because none of the warcraftlogs show DKs close to say a hunter, WW or DH. but again, i'm here with an open mind.

[Raiz]

i find it hard to believe because i haven't run into a DK with any respectable damage but Nemesquish seems like he knows his stuff so i'm asking questions.

also, another reason is because none of the warcraftlogs show DKs close to say a hunter, WW or DH. but again, i'm here with an open mind.

Probably because of the 3 reasons :
Nobody plays Frost.
Nobody other than the DKs likes Frost.
A lot of DKs just doesn't know how to play their class correctly. That includes every spec. Hell, even myself I know there are many situation where I'm lacking a few dps here and there because of my retarded OCD.

The first reason is probably the most important one because it also means that there aren't a lot of dedicated Frost spec putting all his effort to play to its full potential (Traits, addons, stats, etc etc).

[Mortifactor]

Doing 3 chest 7's and 8s, I was well ahead of our Mage and Hunter. Frost DK is one of the top dps specs for overall instance damage (Which is the real meter in high level mythic +s)

Stat priority will be the same as raiding Crit to around 35%>Mastery>Haste.

Talents: Talons, Pulse,Icecap,WinterIsCome,??,Scythe, GA

Icecap over Avalanche because you want Pillar up for as much damage/Stuns as possible each pack.

RW on CD, Make sure you are positioning yourself so Glacial Advance hits all the mobs in the pack, Spam Scythe while refreshing Talons as late as possible.

If your on mumble/Vent with your group, make sure you call your kicks/Stuns. Enjoy fat loot.

Interesting,

Putting haste last on this Stat prio when overall up time of procs that come for KM comes from auto attacks for machine gun set up. I could be wrong but stat prio should be crit to 30% (cap is great but if you're below this go RA not Fsc) and it should be small mountain of Mastery if your trying to Max Fsc damage as it benefits from this...but Haste increases Ruin regen and Attack speed so if your using IT and want to maintain high ruin regen increase procs of KM Haste should not be last...if anything it should be before mastery. I would also look at sims for overall cleave damage done on packs of 3 or more whilst using Icecap...increase up times POF does = win but I'm not sure if its up time on packs would be over run by Icecap I could be wrong...food for thought.

GLHF

Morty

[Nemesquish]

Hey Phenom! Exactly how good is that trinket: "Faulty Countermeasure"? I realise the logic of it but is it worth farming when I have Angerboda(855)+WQ trinket that gives straight STR and CRIT (840ilvl)

thx!

Countermeasure is really solid, and I just finally replaced mine with an 895 Ursoc trinket.

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i find it hard to believe because i haven't run into a DK with any respectable damage but Nemesquish seems like he knows his stuff so i'm asking questions.

also, another reason is because none of the warcraftlogs show DKs close to say a hunter, WW or DH. but again, i'm here with an open mind.

Frost is one of the harder specs to play "properly" the difference between 200k and 360k is just focusing on what needs to be done, its really easy to let Talons fall off, its easy to miss an extra target by facing a few degrees in the incorrect direction, same with GA missing something.

Now Im not saying the spec is "hard" to play, its just people have this mind set anyone and anything can play frost at a high level, and thats why people think the spec is horrible.

- - - Updated - - -

Interesting,

Putting haste last on this Stat prio when overall up time of procs that come for KM comes from auto attacks for machine gun set up. I could be wrong but stat prio should be crit to 30% (cap is great but if you're below this go RA not Fsc) and it should be small mountain of Mastery if your trying to Max Fsc damage as it benefits from this...but Haste increases Ruin regen and Attack speed so if your using IT and want to maintain high ruin regen increase procs of KM Haste should not be last...if anything it should be before mastery. I would also look at sims for overall cleave damage done on packs of 3 or more whilst using Icecap...increase up times POF does = win but I'm not sure if its up time on packs would be over run by Icecap I could be wrong...food for thought.

GLHF

Morty

You could probably get away with having 30% crit, but its feelsbadman when you cleave 5 mobs with no KM and only 1 crits. Getting to 38-40% is pretty easy as of right now with crit food, while still maintaining decent mastery/haste.

Haste is one of those stats where its only as good as it is for YOU. If you feel comfortable at lower levels of haste, then stick with how it is. I have around 14% in game haste, and only a few times with unlucky Runic Empower procs, that i feel its low.

As of 7.1, I'll focus on getting the Kara trinket and if/when I do, I'll be switching gems/enchants over to haste/Mastery. (Prob mastery and try and pick up 1 more heavy haste gear item.)

There's no denying "Sims" say to do otherwise...but the sim profile is pretty awful standard, and i get exteremely good results with my way of doing thing.

My Logs would even reflect that more so, but our guild likes to fail hardcore on kill attempts and limp to victory. (Example, this week on Nythendra, I had to tank the boss for 6-7 seconds with no heals because the entire raid go MC'd on the same wave, Thus killing me..Ursoc, massacre'd us durning the last 10% and it was a kitefest...Had to be blood for Renferal/Illgnoth)