Final Presidential Debate - October 19, 2016

[anyaka21]

There really is no reason I can tell other than feels to say that Trump is more trustworthy than Clinton. I mean...on Trump's side you have an incredible amount of lying during the campaign and a whole host of shifting campaign positions that show a lack of conviction in his beliefs. He's run a corrupt foundation and brags about bribing and buying off politicians. He's been caught up in lawsuits ranging from personal behavior to not honoring legal contracts.

You can point to issues about Clinton all you want, but to conclude that Trump is the more honorable and trustworthy candidate requires an insane amount of selection bias.

I trust her less it's just that simple. I think she's wontonly lied and manipulated the system, done things that should've gotten her indicted and thrown in jail. Ignored a direct fbi subpeona in regards to her emails, and deleted things. All the Bullshit about not knowing what is and what is not classified is a complete bullshit lie for someone that has worked in government for as long as she has. Pretty much all evifdence said that she should be indicted, but somehow Comey said they wouldn't..... There's another thing seriously sketch there.

It can't be a coincidence that all the big personal US donors to her Clinton Foundation landed cush jobs on her staff after their donations.

Also the points about the people that have worked around her, meaning secret service, Arkansas police, they hate her. Even the FBI document showed that while it used to be an honored position to protect the First Lady, Sec of State, now they can only hope to get rookies into those positions because people can't wait to get away from her. That, to me, says a lot about her character behind the veil.

My gut just tells me there's something big going on behind the scenes. And sure, that's a feeling, but it's also a feeling that translates into a vote

[DeadmanWalking]

banker with series 7, 63 and 66. normally wont need the 66 but for some reason my state requires it. I was a teller 3 years ago. few months after i became a teller I became a pb1 (personal banker 1, dealing with new accounts and small loans), then advanced to the next position some banks call personal banker 2 (dealing with larger loans like helocs and business loans/lines), then business specialist (dealing solely with helping people start new business ventures and helping them maintain current business accounts and connecting qualifying people with another division of the bank that deals with even larger business accounts) after being a business specialist for a while I got to know an FA and he convinced me to take the investment route instead so I got the licenses required for the position im in now. bankers don't have to be super geniuses or something. its just a job that deals with peoples finances, like all jobs as you advance you start specializing in different things (meaning you know a little bit more about those topics than you did in the previous position).

its funny how me claiming to be a banker turns out to cause more of a reaction than the way in which i said the market crashed..

Then I would suggest not behaving like a 17-24 year old because you are doing yourself a disservice. Start by not including 'cuck' in conversations or using it improperly. Hit that shift key once in a while, it is almost as bad as an old person using CAPSLOCK ALL THE TIME. If it quacks like a duck and says 'cuck' then I am going to call it a duck. I know 27 is the new 17 and Millenials don't like to think of themselves as adults until 30 but that doesn't mean you can't present yourself as a 27 year old on purpose.

[rosebull]

This has only been said about a trillion times by the Trumples, yet they can't ever seem to tell us which part of wikileaks.

It's like, ok... so... if I'm to understand this correctly, if we go to wikileaks, stare blankly at Hillary's emails which have nothing really damning in them, and think really negative thoughts about Hillary, hidden messages about her killing babies will start to appear in the corners of our vision?

I'm sorry but this is just ignoring facts man. The emails are right there, and the important ones can be found with simple google searches.

I get you hate trump and trump supporters, but lets not ignore facts please.

[waitwutt]

*BUZZER SOUND*

Disqualification right there. Trump has chosen to conceal his tax returns. Therefore, I'm just going to assume his businesses which have failed -- a much longer list then the few I cited -- were ones he chose to let die without re-investing. Remember: this is a man who's backed out of personal guarantees of loans, and has been forced to ditch most of his shareholdings in his major businesses, multiple times, both of which are the opposite of personally investing. Since he's chosen to conceal his tax returns, I see no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt, and will instead judge him on what evidence is visible.

The evidence is on my side, not yours. You are free to find a list of his personal businesses he did put money into, to keep afloat. Good luck with that. But I already backed up my claim. Now it's your turn.

are you referring to the casinos that died just like most the rest of atlantic city at the time? if he were to put money into those investments that would be.. bad investing.. the whole city was about to go down. I don't know the exact cases to which youre referring so I cant refute them without a citation being there to show the cases that youre talking about

[DeadmanWalking]

I'm sorry but this is just ignoring facts man. The emails are right there, and the important ones can be found with simple google searches.

I get you hate trump and trump supporters, but lets not ignore facts please.

If the emails are right there then feel free to find them and bring specific ones to attention, explain what makes them damning. All I can see is that at worst these emails show that the Clinton Campaign over analized every single minor decision. It isn't on us to go looking for facts to support your claim for you.

[Lenonis]

My gut just tells me there's something big going on behind the scenes. And sure, that's a feeling, but it's also a feeling that translates into a vote

Ugh. I had a nice long post written up and my internet went out as I tried to post and lost it.

Cliff notes summary -- you feel these things about Clinton with limited evidence or evidence to the contrary while completely ignoring the evidence about Trump that should invoke the same or even worse feelings about him. I don't understand that.

[waitwutt]

Then I would suggest not behaving like a 17-24 year old because you are doing yourself a disservice. Start by not including 'cuck' in conversations or using it improperly. Hit that shift key once in a while, it is almost as bad as an old person using CAPSLOCK ALL THE TIME. If it quacks like a duck and says 'cuck' then I am going to call it a duck. I know 27 is the new 17 and Millenials don't like to think of themselves as adults until 30 but that doesn't mean you can't present yourself as a 27 year old on purpose.

it more has to do with I put the bare minimum of effort into posting on a site where hitting the shift key is supposed to help an argument or an idea.. cause it doesn't. neither does worrying about what people are perceiving my age do be. I use words that are descriptive to the people I deal with everyday. not my fault you aren't one of them.

if the way I act is appropriate for business owners and people with multi million dollar portfolio's but not appropriate for some guy on the internet.. I guess that's something ill have to live with.

[Breccia]

are you referring to the casinos that died just like most the rest of atlantic city at the time?

Dude, Donald Trump was the rest of Atlantic City. He overextended and competed against himself, and lost. He destroyed the city, and a substantial portion of the state's economy. You do know they were most of his bankruptcies, right? He made the city go down. It was a bad investment because of Donald Trump. Here's a story form literally the last 24 hours!

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/po..._tax_debt.html

Which cases? "All of them". He lost all of his casinos in NJ, and Atlantic City is now a broken-ass cesspool.

And I can't help but notice you haven't found any businesses of his that he invested money in to keep them afloat. As opposed to his standard strategy, to license his name but have nearly no interaction, or to sell off his stock and distance himself. Again, neither of these strategies fit the bill. So, good luck finding them. I gave my evidence, you find yours. Run along now, get looking. Shoo, shoo.

[cubby]

I'm sorry but this is just ignoring facts man. The emails are right there, and the important ones can be found with simple google searches.

I get you hate trump and trump supporters, but lets not ignore facts please.

Maybe link them then? Show us the "important" ones.

[DeadmanWalking]

are you referring to the casinos that died just like most the rest of atlantic city at the time? if he were to put money into those investments that would be.. bad investing.. the whole city was about to go down. I don't know the exact cases to which youre referring so I cant refute them without a citation being there to show the cases that youre talking about

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/12...ntic-city.html

[cubby]

I trust her less it's just that simple. I think she's wontonly lied and manipulated the system, done things that should've gotten her indicted and thrown in jail. Ignored a direct fbi subpeona in regards to her emails, and deleted things. All the Bullshit about not knowing what is and what is not classified is a complete bullshit lie for someone that has worked in government for as long as she has. Pretty much all evifdence said that she should be indicted, but somehow Comey said they wouldn't..... There's another thing seriously sketch there.

How can you reconcile this one thing with the litany of horrible things Trump has done?

Fraud
Sexual Assault
Bribery
Tax Records

The list can go on and on.

[anyaka21]

Ugh. I had a nice long post written up and my internet went out as I tried to post and lost it.

Cliff notes summary -- you feel these things about Clinton with limited evidence or evidence to the contrary while completely ignoring the evidence about Trump that should invoke the same or even worse feelings about him. I don't understand that.

When have I ever said I'd ignore the evidence against Trump. I said I would give him a pass on the accepting the election results, that's about it, because he's of how sketch the system is. At least a pass until the votes are counted and verified.

I think the only things that I agree with him on are trade deficiencies and ISIS. At least, in terms of ISIS, I would agree that when Hillary said she would take Mozul (sp?) back because that's where ISIS leaders are. All that is is a pre-warning for their leaders to leave Mozul.... I mean if someone said they were going to blow up your house in 2 weeks, would you be in there in too weeks, esp if you knew the person could/would do it?


edit: I also don't agree with the vote for me because my opponent sucks mentality. They both suck, thus I have no issues for not voting for either.

[DeadmanWalking]

Dude, Donald Trump was the rest of Atlantic City. He overextended and competed against himself, and lost. He destroyed the city, and a substantial portion of the state's economy. You do know they were most of his bankruptcies, right? He made the city go down. It was a bad investment because of Donald Trump. Here's a story form literally the last 24 hours!

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/po..._tax_debt.html

Which cases? "All of them". He lost all of his casinos in NJ, and Atlantic City is now a broken-ass cesspool.

And I can't help but notice you haven't found any businesses of his that he invested money in to keep them afloat. As opposed to his standard strategy, to license his name but have nearly no interaction, or to sell off his stock and distance himself. Again, neither of these strategies fit the bill. So, good luck finding them. I gave my evidence, you find yours. Run along now, get looking. Shoo, shoo.

My favorite part of all that was when he testified before congress that the Native American casinos were unfairly getting tax exemptions because, "They don't look very Indian to me." and that those tax exemptions should go to people like him, and 'like him' means him.

[Merkava]

How can you reconcile this one thing with the litany of horrible things Trump has done?

Fraud
Sexual Assault
Bribery
Tax Records

The list can go on and on.

Trump did all of those things? I'm assuming you have proof? Because if you didn't you should be prepared for the same standard to be applied to your candidate.

[DeadmanWalking]

it more has to do with I put the bare minimum of effort into posting on a site where hitting the shift key is supposed to help an argument or an idea.. cause it doesn't. neither does worrying about what people are perceiving my age do be. I use words that are descriptive to the people I deal with everyday. not my fault you aren't one of them.

if the way I act is appropriate for business owners and people with multi million dollar portfolio's but not appropriate for some guy on the internet.. I guess that's something ill have to live with.

You are welcome to present yourself any way you chose, but if you want to act like a 15 year old tossing around the word 'cuck' liberally and incorrectly then don't be surprised when people doubt your credentials, you just end up defeating yourself because that is how 15-24 year olds behave. It's tantamount to dressing like an 80's street punk and wondering why no one wants to hear you talk about why your home for the elderly is a great place to let their aging parents retire.

And that's the last I will mention this topic, one less person using the word cuck wrong on the internet is finally off my bucket list, next is people who use 'literally' wrong.

[-Nurot]

This has only been said about a trillion times by the Trumples, yet they can't ever seem to tell us which part of wikileaks.

It's like, ok... so... if I'm to understand this correctly, if we go to wikileaks, stare blankly at Hillary's emails which have nothing really damning in them, and think really negative thoughts about Hillary, hidden messages about her killing babies will start to appear in the corners of our vision?

This, by far, is the best thing I've seen yet today.

[Breccia]

Trump did all of those things? I'm assuming you have proof? Because if you didn't you should be prepared for the same standard to be applied to your candidate.

Seriously? That's the level of denial you're going with? Fine. Fuck it, let's dance.

1) Fraud

Trump's University was open for a grand total of five years. It was never accredited. Multiple motions to dismiss have been denied and the case is going forwards. However, even when it was around, it got miserable ratings, failed to deliver on its promises, and its degree is a worthless joke. Trump has been found personally liable once already for operating a for-profit school without a license. The case is People v. Trump Entrepreneur Initiative, New York state Supreme Court, New York County, No. 451463/2013.

His Foundation is also still under investigation, however, it's already been used to settle at least two lawsuits against Trump/his businesses, and once to bribe a DA. It has been shut down in the sense that it can no longer solicit donations, which for a charity is a pretty big problem. The Foundation NEVER did any actions, only gave money to other causes, and Trump himself stopped giving in 2008.

2) Sexual Assault

I wouldn't have put it on the list, but let's not forget, the child rape case is still going forwards. It's bullshit, but it's still not dismissed.

Donald Trump has not been criminally charged with sexual assault in the more recent cases that have come forward, and it's not likely they will due to the time that's passed.

3) Bribery

Trump has been caught, and fined for, illegal lobbying multiple times. In one case, he gave $303,856 to lobby state legislators to oppose the Native American casino just recently mentioned in these very forums, but because he failed to tell the FEC he also spent $150,000 on billboards too, he was fined $250,000 the maximum penalty, which had never been done before. More recently, his Foundation was caught giving $2,500 to a DA who dropped the University fraud case (what a coincidence!) and was fined $25,000 for illegal contributions. That's two counts of guilty.

EDIT EDIT: Trump replaced the $25,000 fine from the Foundation with his own money. That is the sum total of money he's given since 2008. He will very likely choose to deduct that $25,000 he gave to his charity that was a fine for the IRS, letting him technically profit from his crime. What an asshole.

4) Tax Records

Um...I don't even know where to start. They are undisputed. They're right there. Yes, he did his tax returns. Yes, his and his campaign tried to defend his $916 million loss in 1995. Yes, I'm taking that as an admission they're real.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ump-taxes.html

EDIT: Or did you mean the stuff hiding in his other tax returns, the ones he's refused to show us? You can call me biased all you want, but I'm still going to say there's some horrible shit in there. Remember: Conway, while working for Cruz, demanded Trump release them. Then, she started working for Trump. Then, her demands stopped, and reversed. So either:
a) she didn't see them, but assumes they're bad, so I'm allowed to assume they're bad too, or
b) she DID see them, and still doesn't want them released, which if anything makes it worse.

There is no chance that Trump's refusal to release his tax returns is because they're full of sunshine and roses. All his refusal has done is hurt his own campaign. Unless he chooses to release them, I -- and many others -- will assume the worst, and I feel pretty morally justified while doing so.

[LaserSharkDFB]

Sure he did, how long did it take? Is that any different than what Trump would do?

Just wanted to clarify this from a couple pages ago. Assuming that Trump flat-out refuses to accept the results of the election if Clinton wins? Then yes, that is massively different than what Gore did, because Gore did not do that.

Gore conceded when it looked like Florida was going to go to Bush, but it ended up as being such an extremely narrow margin that Florida was required - by law - to do a recount. Gore unconceded and the recounts began; he requested that some of them were to be recounted by hand, as he was legally allowed to do, and when it became clear that this would take more time than what remained, he requested an extension. The Florida SC gave it to him, Bush appealed, and the US SC got involved only to override the Florida SC.

In other words, the recount would have happened whether Gore wanted it or not; the only thing he tried to do was get more time for the by-hand counts to be completed. In contrast, Trump isn't even talking about recounts or going through the legal process at all. Gore never tried to hedge on the validity of the election process, and saying that what he did is at all similar to what Trump's doing now is just flat-out wrong.

[cubby]

Trump did all of those things? I'm assuming you have proof? Because if you didn't you should be prepared for the same standard to be applied to your candidate.

Just as much as Hillary did, right? Oh wait, she's already been cleared and Trump is still under investigation.

[Lenonis]

When have I ever said I'd ignore the evidence against Trump.

By saying he is more trustworthy than Clinton. Mind you not equally trustworthy, but MORE trustworthy.