1. #2741
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    I think it's because of two things:
    1. Outlaw was promised to be the best spec according to sims, and it was actaully pretty strong, so people used tons of AP on it and got BiS relics... and then they nerfed it to the ground.
    2. It has really high RNG involved. I don't think that any spec should have as much RNG. This makes logs totally incomparable, on one fight you can get 2x 6 buffs and plenty of +2 buffs, on another fight you can get 4-5 times one buff in a row during bloodlust/potion phase. The differences in DPS shouldn't be that huge only because of luck.

    But that's just my opinion, you can agree or not.



    You can call me an idiot, but they could just buff the abilities they nerfed and we would have the same thing. I mean - not to buff them as much as they were before(so they wouldn't need to nerf them in the next patch, duuh?).
    that wouldnt fix the underlying issue of 2 traits being waaaay too good compared to others which gives us a lot of scaling and itemization problems
    if anything the other traits should be buffed

  2. #2742
    People blindly following the trend should truly not be an argument.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  3. #2743
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    People blindly following the trend should truly not be an argument.
    this isnt a "trend" issue, stop saying that
    it's about performance

    if you're racing a car and you pay and invest in the best possible car and then they ripped out the engine, tossed in a worse one and put the good engine into a car every car expert said(and measured scientifically) wouldnt be great and now you have to invest into that you wouldnt be happy would you?

  4. #2744
    Quote Originally Posted by Wow View Post
    Im sure the truth of it is they were planning on doing nothing but we complained so hard they are going to do some minor buff to shut people up.
    They can start at the god-awful Artifact tree they made for Outlaw.

  5. #2745
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    this isnt a "trend" issue, stop saying that
    it's about performance

    if you're racing a car and you pay and invest in the best possible car and then they ripped out the engine, tossed in a worse one and put the good engine into a car every car expert said(and measured scientifically) wouldnt be great and now you have to invest into that you wouldnt be happy would you?
    So everytime something gets changed, each and every person gets a full refund because it's Blizzards fault?
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  6. #2746
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    So everytime something gets changed, each and every person gets a full refund because it's Blizzards fault?
    If they take a spec from top tier to garbage tier after you've invested so much time and effort into it, the proper way to "fix" it is to correct your balance mistake and return the spec to viability ASAP. But Blizzard has almost never had the ability to do that if it doesn't involve Mages.

    I don't think it's really all that unreasonable to call it their fault since, you know, they develop the game, broke a spec, and left a ton of people pissed off at the futility of gearing up towards something then having it get shut down by incompetence...So it seems pretty reasonable to want some kind of "refund" but we all know that'll never happen as it would signify Blizzard's admitting they've given up on fixing it/broke something so badly it warrants drastic action. In their mind they were only a little bit off target despite the fact that Outlaw went from the best DPS spec to the worst in the same raid tier.

  7. #2747
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    So everytime something gets changed, each and every person gets a full refund because it's Blizzards fault?
    i never said we should get a full refund, dont put words in my mount and dont try to strawman me, but it is blizzard's fault

    they verbatum said, they WILL NOT make the best spec the worst spec because people would feel cheated with their spent artifact points, and yet they did exactly that. and its fine, they fucked up the math, and they're supposedly fixing it. but dont bring trend into this

    people who take this game seriously will play what does the most dps, you judging them for it is really backwards.

    hell i wouldnt even care if outlaw got nerfed in ST because it's AOE is so good it makes sense, but then someone please explain fire mages.

  8. #2748
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    i
    people who take this game seriously will play what does the most dps, you judging them for it is really backwards.
    People who play this game seriously know that shit happens. It's not like it was the first time it happened, nor the last time, but each and every time it happens more people cry louder that Mr Blizzard wronged them and demand instant and personal compensation for their percieved loss of everything valuable in their life.

    I'm not saying that Blizzard makes no mistakes, as i play outlaw myself, but this is worse everytime, especially because all the tools and theories raise the expectations and entitlements higher and higher. Like phantastic trailers with mediocre movies. So if people found the time and personal integrity to constructively scrutinize and criticize changes in the game instead of this recurring shitstorms, i wouldn't have to write this post.

    I just wish mages would get equality.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  9. #2749
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    this isnt a "trend" issue, stop saying that
    it's about performance

    if you're racing a car and you pay and invest in the best possible car and then they ripped out the engine, tossed in a worse one and put the good engine into a car every car expert said(and measured scientifically) wouldnt be great and now you have to invest into that you wouldnt be happy would you?
    What kind of comparison is that? Makes no sense at all.

    And what do you even expect Blizzard to do? They clearly saw Outlaw as too strong, which to be fair, around 840ilvls, they were still king in DPS.

    But no. How about we take your route, and don't rebalance at all. Who gives two craps about OP and UP specs and classes? Other people are invested in those and we definitely should not upset those poor guys.

  10. #2750
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    People who play this game seriously know that shit happens. It's not like it was the first time it happened, nor the last time, but each and every time it happens more people cry louder that Mr Blizzard wronged them and demand instant and personal compensation for their percieved loss of everything valuable in their life.

    I'm not saying that Blizzard makes no mistakes, as i play outlaw myself, but this is worse everytime, especially because all the tools and theories raise the expectations and entitlements higher and higher. Like phantastic trailers with mediocre movies. So if people found the time and personal integrity to constructively scrutinize and criticize changes in the game instead of this recurring shitstorms, i wouldn't have to write this post.

    I just wish mages would get equality.
    It's particularly problematic this time because:

    1) Blizzard developers claimed they would not be nerfing specs into the ground in Legion
    2) Artifact Power expenditure, despite the catch up mechanic, gives you a sense of additional wasted investment
    3) Relics add an additional level of complexity when changing specs, particularly because they get destroyed when swapping meaning you have to go out and farm for additional relics.
    4) Gear stat weight distribution being different means some pieces can be outright bad for one spec rather than suboptimal (i.e weighted heavily on one stat that sucks for the spec you end up switching to)

    Just because Blizzard doesn't have a good balance track record, doesn't mean people can't bring up the discussion.

  11. #2751
    Quote Originally Posted by Rixxis View Post
    Just because Blizzard doesn't have a good balance track record, doesn't mean people can't bring up the discussion.
    That is absolutely correct, but many people do not bring up discussion, just their wants and needs.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  12. #2752
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    That is absolutely correct, but many people do not bring up discussion, just their wants and needs.
    What is the point of this post/point? People discuss their wants and needs for a spec on a forum? No way!

    What do you expect? Professional level feedback and testing, with dozens of spreadsheets full of info to back up their critical analyses?

    Its the same redicilous notion blizzard give off when they suggest they read the forums but get lost in all the data. Dude I'm paying to play THEIR game, I'm not a blizzard developer or community manager on 100k+ salary, shocker I know. They can do their jobs, and if they cant weed out the good info from the trolls wtf are they doing over there monday to friday.

  13. #2753
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    What is the point of this post/point? People discuss their wants and needs for a spec on a forum? No way!

    What do you expect? Professional level feedback and testing, with dozens of spreadsheets full of info to back up their critical analyses?

    Its the same redicilous notion blizzard give off when they suggest they read the forums but get lost in all the data. Dude I'm paying to play THEIR game, I'm not a blizzard developer or community manager on 100k+ salary, shocker I know. They can do their jobs, and if they cant weed out the good info from the trolls wtf are they doing over there monday to friday.
    So all people saying "my spec needs to rock the bees knees, becuz hurr durr" are valuable contributors?
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  14. #2754
    Quote Originally Posted by baddy View Post
    But no. How about we take your route, and don't rebalance at all. .
    like with fire mages?


    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    People who play this game seriously know that shit happens. It's not like it was the first time it happened, nor the last time, but each and every time it happens more people cry louder that Mr Blizzard wronged them and demand instant and personal compensation for their percieved loss of everything valuable in their life.

    I'm not saying that Blizzard makes no mistakes, as i play outlaw myself, but this is worse everytime, especially because all the tools and theories raise the expectations and entitlements higher and higher. Like phantastic trailers with mediocre movies. So if people found the time and personal integrity to constructively scrutinize and criticize changes in the game instead of this recurring shitstorms, i wouldn't have to write this post.

    I just wish mages would get equality.
    again, the problem isnt that it happened, the problem is that it happened despite blizzard basically guaranteeing it will not

    and as i said, for some reason fire mages are still escaping the same fate
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2016-10-21 at 08:27 PM.

  15. #2755
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    People blindly following the trend should truly not be an argument.
    I agree with that statement, but you shouldn't really call it "trend", it's a DPS spec and all specs should be balanced in some way, especially if most people are investing much in one and then seeing it getting nerfed to the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanatu View Post
    I think it's probably the first one, good call. I guess people don't want to change. I feel half-invested but I also just really like the spec, that's why I'm always pushing for it. If I didn't like it I'd just bite the bullet I think.
    Solve of the problem would be having the same AP in all artifacts.

  16. #2756
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    I agree with that statement, but you shouldn't really call it "trend", it's a DPS spec and all specs should be balanced in some way, especially if most people are investing much in one and then seeing it getting nerfed to the ground.
    This is true, but i have no sympathy for all people looking up which spec does best, according to "the sims/the pros/the youtubers" and then it's done. Until something changes. The usual fotm crowd.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  17. #2757
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    So all people saying "my spec needs to rock the bees knees, becuz hurr durr" are valuable contributors?
    Literally no one is saying that. You've made yourself a nice strawman to have an internet argument with.

  18. #2758
    Quote Originally Posted by Rixxis View Post
    Literally no one is saying that. You've made yourself a nice strawman to have an internet argument with.
    You do not read much of the forums, do you? People who complain are everywhere.
    It seems you are making up a straw man here.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  19. #2759
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    Anybody know what the most reliable trinket chart is at this point?

    AMR's driving me insane saying that Serpentis Egg's my best in bags when I've got 4 other options that are higher ilvl, including titanforge tentacle with gemslot.
    Yeah I wish we had a somewhat definitive list, AMR spits out some weird combos.

  20. #2760
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    Anybody know what the most reliable trinket chart is at this point?

    AMR's driving me insane saying that Serpentis Egg's my best in bags when I've got 4 other options that are higher ilvl, including titanforge tentacle with gemslot.
    if by tentacles you mean spontaneous appendages then AMR is not wrong that trinket is pure garbage

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