Is the majority of people just plain awful at WoW?

[Highwhale]

OP is fire mage who currently one of the best dps spec and he bitching about other's dps. Did you played as frost mage/DK and tryed to pull atleast 250k dps?/thread

[Spiral Mage]

Quite honestly, I've seen people mostly doing fairly competitive DPS thus far, leading me to believe the majority are actually atleast decent players.

[Sansnom]

I just want to point out that saying "People play this game for fun" as an argument against people who want to be the very best is retarded. It's fun for me to be as good as I can be.

Partially. Part of the problem is how one side is not leaving the other sides alone and play the way they want and let others play the way they want.

We have people in higher raid difficulties complaining about the LFR players being bad, does not deserve rewards etc. Then there is the other side that complains about certain rewards being only available at certain level, such as mounts, titles etc.

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And you being shitty reduces their fun, so they reduce your fun.
Yes I get "it's a game"
But you being shitty at said game reduces the fun for others the same way them being mean reduces your fun.

In matchmaking/LFD(R), yeah one should be a bit more accepting to shit play. Shit play and expecting to be gently criticized in non queued content is an outlandish request, at least imo.

Why can't shit play be frowned upon? The actual source of the hostility

Right. So your justification for your language, tone, hostility is because they are "shitty". It is their fault. Not yours.

[kary]

Someone playing poorly or making a mistake (something we ALL do, by the way, but somehow some people tend to forget) is no excuse for turning abusive toward other players with the intent of getting some kind of revenge. "You ruined my fun so I'll ruin yours!" or some other twisted nonsense.

Sure.
But if someone makes me miss my timer by being shitty, I'm gonna cuss them out, kick them and ignore them.
Saves us both from ever grouping with each other.

[ComputerNerd]

You would have to go to pretty serious limitations to reach the level where someone wouldn't be able to play WoW at a decent level. The majority has the mental and physical capability to at least do decent progress raiding (clearing heroic and clear a mythic boss or two). There are plenty of reasons why they don't play at that level. Some just lack even basic knowledge of the game, especially if they are new. Some just don't (want to) take the game too seriously. But if they'd be committed and willing, would easily be able to pull their weight. Obviously the amount of effort it would take would vary extremely from person to person.

A "decent level" as one suitable for clearing the content, and what the community deems necessary are rarely the same thing nowadays unfortunately.

[Cynical Person]

Yes, I have a hard time finding people who are not "special"

[IIamaKing]

Yep.

10chairs

[ButterBeast]

I've always said that anyone who is "bad" at WoW just isn't trying.

I mean, seriously, the game isn't demanding at all. You don't need amazing reflexes. You don't need extreme multi-tasking. You don't need a wealth of built up muscle memory. You don't need to be particularly fast, accurate, or anything else. You don't even need a particuarly large body of knowledge. It's a very slow, very simple game.

So yeah, if someone is just plain not performing at all, then they're just not trying. There really are no other options (outside of some handicap or something).

show us your logs.

[Aurora]

The average legion player is far better than the average player during wrath. There are weak players around in the game at the moment but they still have basic competency, during wrath there were players everywhere who did not understand the basics like what a tank does, how aggro works, why equipping intellect on a death knight isn't a good idea etc. I remember being in a dungeon with a boomkin one time who dealt damage solely through auto attacks, met people who used spells by clicking on the spellbook and changing pages when they needed a different spell and healers who needed to be in the same group to heal as they didn't have raid frames. I even remember well geared raiders in pugs who would open with all cooldowns during heroism and then die on purpose so they'd remain top of the DPS metres since nobody sorted by damage in those days. This wasn't even uncommon.

I haven't seen anything even remotely close to that in legion, the really bad players appear to have either left during cata or improved.

[dwightyo39]

I admit I haven't been "good" at pve since I was last in raiding guilds (cataclysm). I got burned out and converted to casual pvp.

I'm actually interested (moderately) in doing some dragonslaying this expansion, but haven't really started yet. I am a month behind the main group of pvers, because September was the absolute worst month for the xpac to launch (for me) and I wasn't able to play most of the month. Since the general opinion form the player base is "if you don't do insane dps or pull/tank perfectly, you are obviously too stupid to learn, there is no hope for you" it makes it rather intimidating to start.

[Binko]

Is there any other activity in existence other than video games where the people who are the best at it spend massive amounts of time and energy whining and complaining and criticizing and insulting everybody else?

Do pro and semi-pro baseball players whine and moan endlessly about having to share their sport with all those other casual weekend players? Do chess masters go on the chess forums and endlessly complain about the existence of club level tournaments and high school chess clubs?

Seriously people, if you think you are a great WoW player then just go group up with other players at your level. But just shut the hell up about how there are so many "low skill" players who don't measure up to your lofty standard. Give it a rest with all the passive aggressive "I just don't get why everybody isn't great like me" comments. Just let them play the game they paid for in peace.

[kary]

Is there any other activity in existence other than video games where the people who are the best at it spend massive amounts of time and energy whining and complaining and criticizing and insulting everybody else?

Do pro and semi-pro baseball players whine and moan endlessly about having to about having to share their sport with all those other casual players? Do chess masters go on the chess forums and endlessly complain about the existence of club level tournaments and high school chess clubs?

Seriously people, if you think you are a great WoW player then just go group up with other players at your level. But just shut the hell up about how there are so many "low skill" players who don't measure up to your lofty standard. Just let them play the game they paid for in peace.

Semi-pro and amateur ball players don't picket the NBA when teams won't let them play for them, though.

[Deleted]

Firstly you're pulling statistics out your ass and it makes your points way less meaningful. Secondly, there will always be bad players, there will always be mediocre players, there will always be decent players, and then there will also be great players. This is something you have to put up with.

[impending doom]

Majority of people are just plain "normal" people, bigger problem are people who group up with randoms and having totally wrong expectations. If you group up with wrong people it's mostly your own fault, there's plenty of competetive players around too for pretty high levels.

[Faenskap]

And you being shitty reduces their fun, so they reduce your fun.
Yes I get "it's a game"
But you being shitty at said game reduces the fun for others the same way them being mean reduces your fun.

In matchmaking/LFD(R), yeah one should be a bit more accepting to shit play. Shit play and expecting to be gently criticized in non queued content is an outlandish request, at least imo.

Why can't shit play be frowned upon? The actual source of the hostility

I'm not generally shitty, but have had moments with less than desirable gameplay. I can willingly admit to this, unlike the majority of players here. If someone's fun is being good at the game, why can't they feel that carrying a group in a heroic (all of my examples have been heroic) will make them even better players?

You say people should be more accepting to poorer play in a random heroic, but they aren't, and that's a problem, but you don't see it.

If you're upset with someone's poor performance, how do you help them? By namecalling and wishing cancer upon them, or guiding them towards a class guide? What suits the game in the long run - a friendly and helpful community or a smaller, hostile and angry community?

Shit play isn't the source of hostilty, wannabe pro players who think they're gods gift to WoW and humanity with an attitude that belongs nowhere are

You seem very spiteful towards noobs and "shit play", I bet if you were in a room with an underperforming dps and Hitler and had a gun with two bullets, you'd shoot the dps twice and call him a hypersensitiv bitch for crying in pain

You say you're a nice person in the game, yet I don't believe that. You are void of empathy and if you were the first person to happen upon a car crash, you'd drive on because those noobs can only thank themselves and should've l2p

[kary]

>assumptions>assumptions>assumptions>assumptions>assumptions>assumptions>assumptions>assum ptions>assumptions>assumptions>assumptions>assumptions>assumptions

Anyway, learning to play isn't hard.
You can't learn to play if you don't want to.
If you get accepted into groups and your shit play gets tolerated, it's highly likely you won't find the drive to improve.

But anyway, I don't really do much matchmaking content. Avoid LFR like the plague. Premades/organized groups or nothing. That way I don't have to speak to shit people, and shit people don't have to be triggered when they get called out for being shitty.

[kary]

This is why I wonder about all the opposition to M+0 (which is just what Heroic used to be, lets not fool ourselves here. M+0 is easier than Cata heroics, for that matter) being in matchmaking.

I mean, you guys do all this doomsaying about how there will be bads in the queue and how you'll have to carry and all this...but what the hell are you even DOING there in the first place if you guys are so badass? And why wouldn't you be following your own advice about, "Make your own groups, duh!"

And if you're not using the matchmaking to begin with - or you're not doing M+0 at all anyway - then one REALLY has to wonder why all the opposition to something that previously was a part of the game for the last 6 years (or however long it's been).

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Well, yes. Historically the "midcore wannabes" are the loudest about this stuff. Every time in the past when I played with actual top players, people were actually much more relaxed and easygoing about things. Because really, no one at the top of their game actually cares what someone in LFR is doing, or whether there's a bad somewhere in a M+0 somewhere in the universe.

I pug M+0 because I enjoy group finder groups, lol.
If I were to do M+ anything, I'd do it with my guild.

Back in cata when my guild was progressing on sinestra, I'd pug 5mans ad nauseum. I like 5 mans. I dislike 5 mans with people who don't care about their performance (I'm not saying that I'm only grouping with geared people, I'd group with people who care enough to try), people who stand in aoes, don't interrupt, fall off ledges; people who slow the flow of the run (low dps doesn't really affect the flow, but stopping to res a baddie does)

Basically I like runs with like minded individuals. People who don't stress my runs out.

[Sansnom]

But anyway, I don't really do much matchmaking content. Avoid LFR like the plague. Premades/organized groups or nothing. That way I don't have to speak to shit people, and shit people don't have to be triggered when they get called out for being shitty.

Then what is your problem? You don't want to mix with them and they don't want to mix with you.

You like shitting on people. Don't be surprise when they shit on you.

[kary]

So you'll continue to run M+0 when there's no real reason for you to do so - and you'll do so with pugs - just for reasons, and then complain at them when they're not pros? It kinds sounds like you just like "slumming" to find people to mess with.

(Also, Sinestra...funny story, my guild almost blew up when the first Shard of Woe on our server didn't go to me as our only Resto Druid, or to either of our Arcane Mages...but to a damn crappy Resto Shaman that barely kept up sometimes and that we only brought along after our first kill. I never quite understood that choice.)

Eh, I won't complain at the ones that aren't shit. There's a lot of players that are neither pro nor dogshit awful.
Ok for instance, last night I got in to a Nelth's +2 (was supposed to be +0, someone had key, why not ya?)
We cleared to 3 chests, but had to suicide because the tank skipped some mobs that we needed, only got +2.
No wipes, why would I be mad at that?

If I joined the +0 and you had people barraging extra mobs and standing in the poop and dying and stuff, then yeah, play better wtf?! I'm not asking for perfection, I'm asking for players that I group with to actually care. Jaded LFResque people who shoot the boss once and afk are def not my peers. You don't have to do godly dps, you just have to try.

Then what is your problem? You don't want to mix with them and they don't want to mix with you.

You like shitting on people. Don't be surprise when they shit on you.

Why would I be? Lol. But if I do something clearly stupid (it happens to everyone) I usually apologize and attempt to rectify the issue before it becomes unsalvageable.

And making mythic+0 queueable would just open the field to people who care even less than the current crowd. Even less

[Deleted]

This is not a whine thread, but more like a debate on people and their skills.

Let me tell you about my legion experience so far.
I'm not a raider in this expansion, but i do still play a lot, and only do dungeons/mythic plus.
Through my travels i've found that random people i meet are generally incredible bad at this game, why is this?
Some of the common mistakes is people not using their cds, unless on bosses. so they sit on something like combustion for 5-10 minutes because "trash" is not worth it....even if i pull 3 packs as a tank, still no cds on many ppl.
Additionally some random heroics i queue up as dps on my crazy aoe fire mage. i get in see a tank 3.6m hp. about 860 ilvl, and he pulls single packs in heroics. I cry inside when i see that srsly.
Me and my friend a pala tank and me on my mage, we were 845 when we had the worst case in this expansion, we were in group with a 866 retri, a 854 hunter and some healer. Now these are 20 and 10 ilvls above us respectively, then how come we did a combined 81% of all the damage in that BRH HC?
It wasn't until after the dungeon i really noticed, i sat back in my chair in shock.
There's countless examples just like that. just tried a +3 BRH. all dps were 850+ and none of them did more than 215k dps on trash packs, even big ones. like wtf?

I see people in the premade grp system asking "865 ilvl for 175k dps" What the actual fuck? Today i did EN norm on my 852 mage and did about 260k on ursoc. I don't want to brag and i don't consider myself a pro player, but just a thinking human being, trying to optimise my play.

Enough ranting from me, what do you think? Is this generally the level of performance to be expected from people in this game? Are 95% of players just plain awful?
And if so where can i find some decent people to play with, who are not awful?

Yes. The majority in any game, is always mediocre. That's what it means.