INDIANAPOLIS , IN - Thousands of Indiana voter registrations changed

[Ripster42]

Sigh. Voter fraud happens. It has been investigated over and over and over again with so few instances actually found that it is laughable.

In fact, out of 1 billion ballots cast, they found 31 credible incidents. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-ballots-cast/

Let that sink in. In every case of the initially reported "massive fraud" cases, we end up with the vast majority falling into the category of simple discrepancies (e.g. missing middle initials, missing apartment numbers, or simple clerical errors in spelling), duplicate registrations because people moved from one state (or district) to another, people who died since the last election, etc.

In fact, that is another thing you need to let sink in. Over 7,000 people die in the US every single day. So if you were to look a week after the Nov 8 election, you are absolutely going to find tens of thousands of people who are dead yet voted...just because they died since they voted.

If you are really curious about election fraud, you need to go a lot deeper than the mass media (that you distrust about every other issue BTW). Look at the actual fraud investigation reports. The Washington Post article references one of the few very serious studies into the matter and is heavily documented with references (223 of them) so you can validate the veracity and accuracy of that study - http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/d...er%20Fraud.pdf

Talking about that, think of all the early voters who died after casting their vote, but died before the election. Fraud for sure.

[I Push Buttons]

So where's the fraud? Indiana has a voter ID law AND says you can vote even if your first name and date of birth is different on your registration from your ID so long as you have the ID. So its not like forging the information would somehow let you vote OR prevent the real person from voting...?

Oh I see now that the Indiana Secretary of State has already back tracked and said it could just be people updating their information.

And it seems the probe instigated by the Secretary of State had state police raiding the offices of an organization that helps black people register to vote... And that they are trying to invalidate the 45,000 (almost entirely black) registrations the organization had a hand in, according to the organization.

Statement from the organization in question:

“After all is said and done, when this partisan investigation finds no wrongdoing by the organization, Connie Lawson and the Indiana State Police will have prevented 45,000 African Americans from voting in this year’s elections. That is why today we reported their outrageous actions to the Department of Justice.”

Nothing to see here folks, just some friendly neighborhood voter suppression.

[Belize]

So where'd all the Trump supporters go after they realized it just might not be TEH EBIL LIBRULS doing the rigging?

Come on guys.

[Xeones]

Voter fraud totally does not happen and is a non issue. /s

Every single thread about voter ID laws have said when fraud occurs it's almost always at registration. It's the sort of fraud that voter ID laws "stop" that doesn't happen.

[Saucexorzski]

Unless it was the republicans fault no one will care.

[Garnier Fructis]

Voter fraud totally does not happen and is a non issue. /s

Every single time we have a thread on voter ID laws, people bring up the fact that the types of fraud ID's would prevent are almost nonexistent, and question why they aren't going after more common forms of fraud like that which is described in your article, which aren't preventable with an ID.

You're straw manning, and you either know it or have not been paying an ounce of attention to the other side's points in past discussions.

[zenkai]

Every single time we have a thread on voter ID laws, people bring up the fact that the types of fraud ID's would prevent are almost nonexistent, and question why they aren't going after more common forms of fraud like that which is described in your article, which aren't preventable with an ID.

You're straw manning, and you either know it or have not been paying an ounce of attention to the other side's points in past discussions.

Just like having an ID law that would suppress people from voting would be non existent?

[Belize]

Unless it was the republicans fault no one will care.

Considering it's Pence's home state, which is majoritarily Republican led, I guess people will care.

[Garnier Fructis]

Just like having an ID that would suppress people from voting would be non existent?

I can't make heads or tails of this sentence to be perfectly honest.

[Saucexorzski]

Considering it's Pence's home state, which is majoritarily Republican led, I guess people will care.

Well yeah, if you can use it as ammo to attack trump of curse folks will care.

[Garnier Fructis]

Well yeah, if you can use it as ammo to attack trump of curse folks will care.

In a big picture sense, anything that can harm Trump's chances should be used to attack him, because at this point it's about maximizing how badly he can lose, in the hopes that a crushing defeat might help banish the alt-right into political obscurity.

[zenkai]

I can't make heads or tails of this sentence to be perfectly honest.

Like having an ID law that people argue would suppress people from voting would be non existent.

[Garnier Fructis]

Like having an ID law that people argue would suppress people from voting would be non existent.

The statistics of these two events don't line up. False equivalence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...e-republicans/

TL;DR: Old studies that found little to no depression in turnout were performed on data before 2008. Stricter voter ID laws were implemented after that, so looking at the 2008-2012 data shows that, to nobody's surprise, there was a significant drop in turnout. And by 'significant' here I mean percentages in the single and double digits as opposed to percentage of voter fraud, which is multiple orders of magnitude below 1.

[Saucexorzski]

In a big picture sense, anything that can harm Trump's chances should be used to attack him, because at this point it's about maximizing how badly he can lose, in the hopes that a crushing defeat might help banish the alt-right into political obscurity.

No compromise for those deplorables, they cant have a say in anything...you sound like the trumpeters you hate.

[zenkai]

The statistics of these two events don't line up. False equivalence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...e-republicans/

TL;DR: Old studies that found little to no depression in turnout were performed on data before 2008. Stricter voter ID laws were implemented after that, so looking at the 2008-2012 data shows that, to nobody's surprise, there was a significant drop in turnout. And by 'significant' here I mean percentages in the single and double digits as opposed to percentage of voter fraud, which is multiple orders of magnitude below 1.

The findings are notable because they're some of the first using data in elections that took place after some states implemented photo ID requirements to vote. Previous studies on the effects of these laws showed mixed results. A 2014 report by the Government Accountability Office examined 10 of these studies. Five showed no significant effect of voter ID laws on turnout, four found a significant decrease in turnout, and one found, paradoxically, that the laws increased turnout.

Totally conclusive. Most of you guys google shit and don't even read your own source.

[LaserSharkDFB]

Like having an ID law that people argue would suppress people from voting would be non existent.

Yeah, no, it's not any better the second time.

Just a guess, but are you saying this:
"Like if you had an ID law that supposedly disenfranchises voters, when said suppression is nonexistent."

...which would be a good argument if not for the fact that said laws have been struck down precisely because they were disenfranchising voters and in at least one case was instituted in order to disenfranchise voters.

But maybe that isn't what you meant, I don't know. You're usually more coherent than this.

[Garnier Fructis]

The findings are notable because they're some of the first using data in elections that took place after some states implemented photo ID requirements to vote. Previous studies on the effects of these laws showed mixed results. A 2014 report by the Government Accountability Office examined 10 of these studies. Five showed no significant effect of voter ID laws on turnout, four found a significant decrease in turnout, and one found, paradoxically, that the laws increased turnout.

Totally conclusive. Most of you guys google shit and don't even read your own source.

You didn't even read it carefully. The point, which they mentioned in the block you reproduced here (thank you for providing the counterargument to your point btw), is that
1) the previous studies were done with data before the strictest voter ID laws were implemented, and
2) the new research with data after the strictest voter ID laws were implemented show a negative impact.

So yes, I did read it. You didn't, though.

- - - Updated - - -

No compromise for those deplorables, they cant have a say in anything...you sound like the trumpeters you hate.

They can say whatever they like. But if their ideas are so anathema to anyone not far-right, are anathema to principles of this nation, and are such true believers that 'compromise' isn't even in their vocabulary, then the compromise we can offer them is 'go away.'

[zenkai]

You didn't even read it carefully. The point, which they mentioned in the block you reproduced here (thank you for providing the counterargument to your point btw), is that
1) the previous studies were done with data before the strictest voter ID laws were implemented, and
2) the new research with data after the strictest voter ID laws were implemented show a negative impact.

So yes, I did read it. You didn't, though.

Oh you want to talk about stricter, how did it get stricter on the ID part? Not to mention you have nothing to scientifically explain any drop was due to voter ID laws. Voter Turn out changes every year regardless of a photo ID or not. In factored in more than just ID if you actually read and understood what you linked. But again you have nothing to compare it to, do prove it was the stricter laws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_...tial_elections

[Garnier Fructis]

Oh you want to talk about stricter, how did it get stricter on the ID part? Not to mention you have nothing to scientifically explain any drop was due to voter ID laws. Voter Turn out changes every year regardless of a photo ID or not. In factored in more than just ID if you actually read and understood what you linked. But again you have nothing to compare it to, do prove it was the stricter laws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_...tial_elections

The article talks about controlling for confounding factors and how there was a consistent drop. Which demonstrates once again, that the extent of your looking at it was limited to finding one sentence that seemed to support your point and then holding that up as evidence.

You realize that what you're saying here would also be a challenge to the legitimacy of the old studies, which you so confidently presented as a counterargument just a few posts ago. It's a de facto admission that you didn't care for whether or not they were true, only whether or not they could help your argument.

[zenkai]

The article talks about controlling for confounding factors and how there was a consistent drop. Which demonstrates once again, that the extent of your looking at it was limited to finding one sentence that seemed to support your point and then holding that up as evidence.

You realize that what you're saying here would also be a challenge to the legitimacy of the old studies, which you so confidently presented as a counterargument just a few posts ago. It's a de facto admission that you didn't care for whether or not they were true, only whether or not they could help your argument.

It's pure bullshit, how does having voter ID laws suppress minority votes? It doesn't, anyone with common sense would see that.