Reason why people say TBC was harder

[Dewragg]

Because its a weird point to get across, rotations were easy, mechanics were easy, knowing what to do was easy. What was hard was devs purposely over tuning and the raid prep. It does not challenge the mind, it's not that type of hard. It's brute force hard.

exactly, you could not brute force everything like you can now. that exact point is why I hate lfr, cause NOBODY does any mechanics. As far as I remember, the only boss was "The Eye Ball Boss" as so many put it..lol that would kill you in lfr if you did not follow the mechanics. I loved seeing so many complain about that boss, when in fact it was the player's fault for not following the mechanics. One of the things about the mythic+ system is when you have different things kick in, the higher you go. It adds new flavor and keeps you alert and really adds to actual replay value.

[WoWGoneBad]

Your reasoning behind why TBC was hard was because you had to take your hands off your keyboard and not play the game for 10 seconds.

Perhaps an expansion that literally asks you to not play the game isn't the most challenging one...

no, this was just me waxing nostalgic at having to watch my threat as a DPS player and not stealing it from the tank because I wanted to hit those numbers. Raiding is about more than who gets to top the charts. I had to be aware of my threat relative to the tank, if I stole it from him I died, then the next player dies and so on. Today how many to DPSers will hold back their dps to allow tank to build threat.. Its all about the meters.

TBC was hard as many have stated was the state of the game. Not that many addons, too small a toolkit, having to know your threat relative to a tank so YOU dont cause the raid to wipe. Knowing which mobs to take down first for a smooth run, controlling those mobs so they dont wipe a grp.

I dont know,for me TBC had more to do than AoE fest everything down loot corpses Rinse REpeat. Having to watch my damage output so I didnt wipe a grp or raid yea I do call that a difficulty at the time. But hey now I got 5 addons to tell me what to do so I dont have to do it my self.. Easy PEasy

[kary]

Yeah, you make it sound all nice but this makes me think you did not play a Hunter or played at all the till the later TBC (3.0) patches. Because the cooldown was longer than the actual trap time, and there was also the chance of it resisting. Points in scatter shot or survival for cooldown reduction made you a bad hunter.
Also traps had an arming time of 2 seconds, waiting to put it at it's feet also made you bad.

Ok so you clearly have the reading comprehension of a sperm cell.
You place the trap, then pull (for melee mobs)
They trigger the trap.
You take 2 steps back, dps as usual and place a new trap when it comes off cd.

If your trap got resisted, you kited.

I put in scatter because even though 1 button macro BM was the best spec, most people did not play that spec till fairly late in the expansion. If you played TBC you'd know that people had snowflake as fuck specs throughout the entire thing.


(05-Dec-2006): Freezing Traps will now cancel combat when cast. Traps can be set while in combat, but require a 2 second arming time.

It's a shame I can't find the old spell information but you could chain trap with a tiny bit of premeditation.

[WoWGoneBad]

Yea because top end players are too stupid to install omen and watch their threat. They are all just mindless idiots who can't clear mythic+ dungeons with the skittish affix

See.. here is the thing about it. I went Vanilla( no raids just dungeons) TBC and Wrath with NO addons other than Recount. And you know what.... I was usually 1-4 dps and rarely died to the stupid. I did something that is rare in WoW nowadays.... I used my EYES to see what was on the screen, to see the fire, to see the cone of death, to see the mob coming for me and running TO the tank, not away from it. I actually used COMMON SENSE(what a concept amirite) and my SKILL(pishhh who needs that anymore amirite) to play the game and I did pretty damned good at it to boot.

And this was all from a CLICKER!!!!!! I never used a single Mouse over or Macro(well on the Hunter is had a MD macro).. I do havea thing for keybindes 1-6 but other than that I am a clicker and was never dropped from a raid for it.

I in no way am hating on those that do use addons. I have found some to be quite useful after coming back for Cata and Pandaria, but back in those times the tools that were IMPORTANT was knowing the fight before hand, if no strats were available yet having the patience to wipe a few times to learn(my guild actually preferred doing it this way). It was important to know your role, what you could and could not do, how fast you can die from a mob, where your tanks are, where your healers are. I dont know..... I guess I liked strategy as a game mechanic

Addons are great tools in todays WoW to keep you in the game. They are pretty much an ESSENTIAL to playing end game. And that is where I started to lose interest. I dont want a game to play itself for me or tell me when to hit the right button. If that is the case then why dont we just set the game to those Facebook RPGs where it does the work for you

[Tart]

No Shattered Halls heroic was not harder than mythic bosses in WoD. Unless you're talking about the first mythic fight of HFC.

What is true though is that Blizz has taken away some crucial game mechanics (like threat management), and gave us more tools to deal with stuff (like AOE abilities, AOE heals, etc).
This has resulted in blizz being forced to keep piling up different boss mechanics, or additional difficulty increases (like affixes in M+, or having to do it on a timer being forced to make bigger pulls etc).

But saying that a HC in TBC was harder than a mythic raid - no it was not.

It was harder mate, but that was down to the gear requirements and a lot mentioned above. The best thing blizzard could do is abolish a lot of the modern day addons we have now.

[kary]

See.. here is the thing about it. I went Vanilla( no raids just dungeons) TBC and Wrath with NO addons other than Recount. And you know what.... I was usually 1-4 dps and rarely died to the stupid. I did something that is rare in WoW nowadays.... I used my EYES to see what was on the screen, to see the fire, to see the cone of death, to see the mob coming for me and running TO the tank, not away from it. I actually used COMMON SENSE(what a concept amirite) and my SKILL(pishhh who needs that anymore amirite) to play the game and I did pretty damned good at it to boot.

And this was all from a CLICKER!!!!!! I never used a single Mouse over or Macro(well on the Hunter is had a MD macro).. I do havea thing for keybindes 1-6 but other than that I am a clicker and was never dropped from a raid for it.

I in no way am hating on those that do use addons. I have found some to be quite useful after coming back for Cata and Pandaria, but back in those times the tools that were IMPORTANT was knowing the fight before hand, if no strats were available yet having the patience to wipe a few times to learn(my guild actually preferred doing it this way). It was important to know your role, what you could and could not do, how fast you can die from a mob, where your tanks are, where your healers are. I dont know..... I guess I liked strategy as a game mechanic

Addons are great tools in todays WoW to keep you in the game. They are pretty much an ESSENTIAL to playing end game. And that is where I started to lose interest. I dont want a game to play itself for me or tell me when to hit the right button. If that is the case then why dont we just set the game to those Facebook RPGs where it does the work for you

So you raided with bad people, that isn't really surprising.

[bubbadubba]

Because its a weird point to get across, rotations were easy, mechanics were easy, knowing what to do was easy. What was hard was devs purposely over tuning and the raid prep. It does not challenge the mind, it's not that type of hard. It's brute force hard.

The rotation wasn't easier. It consisted of less buttons but you generally had to think about what you were doing and when. Now is just memorizing a rotation but you have more buttons to press.

If people didn't play then and you looked at both rotations, yeah the rotation seems pretty simple until the person is OOM/Dead/couldn't time a cast properly as it was much more of a challenge. I could probably add more variables to why hitting 2-3 buttons was more of a challenge then but I would not say the rotations were easy.

It was really easy to be bad because you would think spamming one button was as simple as just hitting it over and over. Saying it that was sounds easy but chances are that was a bad dps that probably didn't actually raid.

[kary]

The rotation wasn't easier. It consisted of less buttons but you generally had to think about what you were doing and when. Now is just memorizing a rotation but you have more buttons to press.

If people didn't play then and you looked at both rotations, yeah the rotation seems pretty simple until the person is OOM/Dead/couldn't time a cast properly as it was much more of a challenge. I could probably add more variables to why hitting 2-3 buttons was more of a challenge then but I would not say the rotations were easy.

It was really easy to be bad because you would think spamming one button was as simple as just hitting it over and over. Saying it that was sounds easy but chances are that was a bad dps that probably didn't actually raid.

Warlocks literally pressed shadow bolt ad nauseum.
Mages kept imp scorch up and spammed fireball
Hunters spammed their macro.
Shadow priests got raid spots so none of these classes had to manage mana.
TBC ranged dps in a nutshell.

[veehro]

Warlocks literally pressed shadow bolt ad nauseum.
Mages kept imp scorch up and spammed fireball
Hunters spammed their macro.
Shadow priests got raid spots so none of these classes had to manage mana.
TBC ranged dps in a nutshell.

Yes but back then it wasn't just about who tops dps. Every class had a specific role to play and a specific thing to do

Hunters had to kite on some encounters like lady vashj
Mages had to sheep and manage their mana as they could go OOM
Warlocks had to banish
Shadow priests had to regenerate mana for the group etc

You might say "well whats so hard to cc a target?"

You had to keep your dps up, avoid damage from the encounter and make sure you can recast the CC at the exact time it would end
Failure to do so would end up in at least a healer being insta killed as the adds would 1 shot a caster due to people having far less hp

[Dahij]

And its difficulty also had a lot to do with stricter class/spell requirements, even for 5 man heroics.
Like Shattered Halls: Don't have a paladin tank (for aoe aggro), and no mage and rogue (for sheep/sap)? Don't even bother...

Shattered Halls wasn't really that hard in a guild group, did it easily as a warrior tank, shaman healer, mage, hunter, warrior dps.

[kary]

Yes but back then it wasn't just about who tops dps. Every class had a specific role to play and a specific thing to do

Hunters had to kite on some encounters like lady vashj
Mages had to sheep and manage their mana as they could go OOM
Warlocks had to banish
Shadow priests had to regenerate mana for the group etc

You might say "well whats so hard to cc a target?"

You had to keep your dps up, avoid damage from the encounter and make sure you can recast the CC at the exact time it would end
Failure to do so would end up in at least a healer being insta killed as the adds would 1 shot a caster due to people having far less hp

Okay but people have special roles today, too.
Compare keeping a mob sheeped with managing chains in M Xhul'horac

[RyanEX]

Was TBC hard. Yes.

Was it harder than the content that came after. Yes.

Was it MECHANICALLY harder than the content that came after. No.

So why was TBC hard? Because TBC was unforgiving. Nowadays if a tank misses a mob in trash even the wimpiest and least geared class can face tank it for several seconds (or in some cases an entire pull) before the tank picks it up. In TBC elite mean't ELITE and if you weren't a tank surviving even a single hit was an achievement.

Were mobs overtuned. This is debateable. Multiple elite mobs beating on a tank would smack even a geared one down like a red headed stepchild and encouraged CC. Mobs also often had abilities that required stepping out (looking at the Captain at the start of TK who's whirlwind wrecked melee) or interrupting. Basically TBC encourage doing more than "dps skull then X then..." or just mindlessly pressing on aoe ability.

Lack of Addons. Here I disagree entirely. Lets be frank, a lot of the addons people use are strictly cosmetic. It makes things neater and allows them to move things around to suit them. All you realistically need to pve is DBM and Decursive. Omen was necessary to watch threat, but no more. Even recount/skada is just used really to stroke egos unless it's a boss with a tight enrage and people aren't pulling threat. And you had all those addons even in Vanilla.

I have no problem with the "bring the player not the class" mentality since that was what lead to a lot of innovative thinking...like using a Druid to tank Patchwerk in Naxx since they had so much armor they could eat his HS's with ease. Or using Shadowpriests to get around Loatheb's healing gimmick.

[Echo of Soul]

Because its a weird point to get across, rotations were easy, mechanics were easy, knowing what to do was easy. What was hard was devs purposely over tuning and the raid prep. It does not challenge the mind, it's not that type of hard. It's brute force hard.

Well it's a different type of approach. Classically in RPGs going back to pen and paper a lot of the difficulty was simply character progression and for those that grew up with that kind of system it makes sense and is "the correct way". 50% of beating the encounter was in the hands of the player and the other 50% was based on your character. Today those percentages have been changed so 75% is the hands of the player and 25% is based on the character (made up numbers btw).

I'm from the older school and simply being able to beat the encounter if you can juggle blindfolded while riding a unicycle and singing japanese karaoke almost regardless of gear isn't that appealing to be. I like building up my character over a long period of time until it's powerful enough to beat the encounter and after that it's up to my skill as a player.
My guild cleared heroic emerald nightmare two weeks ago, and we're not hardcore we raid 3-6 hours every week and doesn't farm our asses off on off nights. That would've been virtually impossible back in TBC.

[Mesoforte]

An heroic dugeons of Burning Crusade must have the equivalent of a Legion Mythic ++++ *something something* ( see Shattered Halls or Shadowlab, you're gonna shit your pants when you need 3 cc's for trash pull )

Now,Regular mythic is a little hard ( see a Slave Pens heroic), while the new form of heroic is like ... normal.
They just put cool title to scare the people or just for cool name.

Now you have too many difficulty to chose from, let's throw all the people in mythic and let's see who wins.

CCing 3 mobs is how we handle Teeming in Nelth's Lair (4+ rock throwers or whatever). Heroic isn't super difficult now, but at the very beginning of the expansion, in greens, it did feel like more of a heroic. I remember TBC, and while certain heroics were bad, they weren't all monstrous once you were used to the mechanics.

I think the availability of higher ilvl gear does play a part in how easy things seem now. We have an easier time gearing up than I did in TBC. I went into Kara with a full blue heroic set back then. In Legion, I stepped into Normal EM with 840+gear.

[Stormspellz]

Translation: BC seemed harder because it fucking was harder.

blunt but accurate

[Deleted]

shh, don't upset the kids of last years who think 2016 WoW is hard

i did some mythic bosses in WoD , when they were current content, Shattered Halls heroic in the first months of TBC was 5x times harder

And do you even know why Shattered halls was hard? Because it was tuned around Tier 5 which was fucking retarded to begin with

[Gadzooks]

Can you Imagine..... Current Huntards in TBC? Barrage + having to control aggro? It would lock out 90% of hunters just on the fact you have to use your brain a bit.

Huntards will always be huntards - we had 'em in TBC, you get to deal with them now. It'll never change. The class just attracts that kind of player.

[Propainn]

And do you even know why Shattered halls was hard? Because it was tuned around Tier 5 which was fucking retarded to begin with

I absolutely was not lol. You couldn't even get into T5 without it.

[Deficineiron]

And do you even know why Shattered halls was hard? Because it was tuned around Tier 5 which was fucking retarded to begin with

actually heroic shat halls was part of nightbane quest. It was clearly intended to be completed by ilvl 115-125 folks who were just getting prince down in kara.

perhaps you mean that it (and some other heroics) became much easier if geared in t5, which seems to be what everyone who talks about running them now was in.

some of those heroics at ilvl 115 were extremely challenging.

[Mesoforte]

IIRC Kael required a warrior MT to reflect the fireball and Illidan had Shear that had to be Shield Blocked, other than that and Stance-Dancing Archi (which could be dealt with with a tremor totem/fear ward rotation) Druids could tank the other encounters just fine with a large enough health pool.

Just tremor totem really. I miss old tremor totem. 2 min buff, constantly dispelling fear. Fear ward would just be used as a preventative measure.