DHs around the world, make your voices heard!

[Shirofune]

If you cared to check my sig (and assuming you even know how to use warcraftlogs) you'd be able to see them. Where's yours?
Implying DH is such a complex class and that they've changed so much since EN release to say that no one but 80th% DH players comment on a thread on a public forum. Who are these world class DH that you know so well? I'd love to see just how high ranked they are. I guess because i only raid 2 nights/week I must be a terrible player with no idea how to play this game.

"Skill Cap
Demon Hunters are a simpler class so there won't be such a huge gap between the best and worst players.
Sometimes there have been huge skill gaps between the best and worst players, such as Feral Druids in WotLK."

Quote from the legion developer Q&A 29th August. Even the blues are saying the class was designed to be easy. They're not going to give a class that can close 40 yards in 2 globals the same DPS as a fire mage. They'd be the most insane thing in the game and everyone and their dog would be playing one.
News flash speak to any player in the world playing any DPS class that isn't fire mage, arms warrior, feral druid or shadow priest and they'll also say they need ST tuning. Just because DH isn't top of the pack doesn't mean the sky is falling and that they're anything but a viable class considering so many guilds stacked them during progress before the throw glaive nerf.

You sir are clueless.

That quote was probably taking into consideration how the BASE class works, that is, no talents. Demon Hunters, in order to perform well, have to take Momentum. That alone increases the skillgap and the amount of awareness required for the class to work properly. And I'm yet to find another class in which repositioning as a core theme exists. Even Feral Druids, that have to manage buff/debuff on their targets to perform well are not as hard in my book.

I refuse to believe DHs are an easy class when stuff like retribution paladins exist, and guess what, they put higher (a lot more) ST DPS than we do, while also providing good utility.

Nobody can't deny the actual status of DH in PvE and PvP (even though in PvP is way worse, something that shouldn't be left untouched a day more) is underperforming, and if you cannot see that, then you're blind.

And yes, I said this while being one of the top performers of my guild. Doesn't change the fact I'm parsing way higher than other people of my guild to pull 2k more DPS.

[Jyggalag]

That quote was probably taking into consideration how the BASE class works, that is, no talents. Demon Hunters, in order to perform well, have to take Momentum. That alone increases the skillgap and the amount of awareness required for the class to work properly. And I'm yet to find another class in which repositioning as a core theme exists. Even Feral Druids, that have to manage buff/debuff on their targets to perform well are not as hard in my book.

So to "perform well" in your eyes, a mythic raider with 4/7 kills, there's an added layer of depth by choosing a talent which leverages mobility. Cool - you've picked the class and you've decided that handling said mobility in high end content is fine for your skill level.
Your argument would hold more weight if you'd said that the other talents in this tier need a buff (i agree they do) so that DH can stand still and put the numbers out that classes who are designed to stand still can do, rather than campaigning what the OP has made out as the sky is falling and there's literally no reason to take a DH to any level of content compared to every other dps spec in the game which is simply not true.

When i go to pug a low keystone mythic and i get a 860+ DH sign up he's usually my first choice because I know adds are going to melt inside his two stuns and two AoE abilities you can press and forget about, whether they vengeful retreat/fel rush or not. There's 0 skill involved there.
I still don't know where you get this idea that they're vastly under-performing in raids. They've got a plethora of hypothetical scenarios where they're very strong - it's just that most of the bosses in EN are trash-free for the most part and they haven't had a chance to shine.
On dragons last night, when we reached the spirit phase and our warlocks, shadowpriests and boomkins had a hard time staying on top of the adds, I'd have loved a DH in the group. Yet you don't see me making a balance druid thread complaining balance druids are garbage because we can't burst 1m AoE and suffer more than any class in the game when a fight involves any movement at all.

[Shirofune]

So to "perform well" in your eyes, a mythic raider with 4/7 kills, there's an added layer of depth by choosing a talent which leverages mobility. Cool - you've picked the class and you've decided that handling said mobility in high end content is fine for your skill level.
Your argument would hold more weight if you'd said that the other talents in this tier need a buff (i agree they do) so that DH can stand still and put the numbers out that classes who are designed to stand still can do, rather than campaigning what the OP has made out as the sky is falling and there's literally no reason to take a DH to any level of content compared to every other dps spec in the game which is simply not true.

When i go to pug a low keystone mythic and i get a 860+ DH sign up he's usually my first choice because I know adds are going to melt inside his two stuns and two AoE abilities you can press and forget about, whether they vengeful retreat/fel rush or not. There's 0 skill involved there.
I still don't know where you get this idea that they're vastly under-performing in raids. They've got a plethora of hypothetical scenarios where they're very strong - it's just that most of the bosses in EN are trash-free for the most part and they haven't had a chance to shine.
On dragons last night, when we reached the spirit phase and our warlocks, shadowpriests and boomkins had a hard time staying on top of the adds, I'd have loved a DH in the group. Yet you don't see me making a balance druid thread complaining balance druids are garbage because we can't burst 1m AoE and suffer more than any class in the game when a fight involves any movement at all.

Its easy to understand. I enjoy the playstyle, I love how thematically developed Demon Hunters are, and even if our mobility is hindered by it, I don't mind. I love the playstyle, but I also understand is not easy to play and it can carry a lot of troubles. That's why I think our damage output is low compared to the effort and what we've to sacrifice to bring it out (our mobility, and our "defensive" cooldowns).

I don't know if the other talents of the tier need a buff, because obviously Nemesis is way easier to play than Momentum, and Fel Eruption is a talent that doesn't make any sense in that tier. Any way, both of those are safer choices and while I understand people that don't like the playstyle want options to change it, I still believe harder playstyles should bring higher rewards. And that currently happens, as Momentum is the top talent. That's why I don't think any buff to Momentum is what the class requires.

What everyone here is complaining is that classes that are far more easier to play, bring way more utility and even comparable AoE to DHs, also bring a lot more of ST to the table, and the easier class to mention is, of course, Fire Mage. But of course, there're far more classes, like WW Monks, Rogues in general, Arms Warriors... etc

Good, so you mention dungeons, congratulations. That's a spot nobody is complaining about, because our AoE is fine. Btw, 2 stuns? I must be playing the wrong class, last time I checked I only had one AoE stun, that costs 50 Fury to use unless I talent into it, losing even more ST damage. And we agree, AoE burst is a no brainer. Guess what, that's what deserved nerfs. Zipping around a boss for 5 minutes to do 300k DPS is not easy, and seeing how a class can just stay away while the player can use his left hand to scratch his balls while pushing 400k ain't exactly appealing to see.

Where do I get the idea we're underperforming? From here.

And yes, keep saying there're adds everywhere blablabla, it doesn't matter. The only boss in EN in which DH shines are Dragons of Nightmare, because there's something to cleave almost the whole time, but then again, that doesn't change the fact our ST is garbage, and I'm an experienced raider.

AoE is NOT important in raids. ST is.

I don't want my class to only fill the niche of Mythic+ clearer, because that's not what I made it for. And not even that, the moment there're some affixes like Bolstering or Raging in play, forget about the AoE and yolo, because you've to ST packs. DH impact is severely reduced under those situations as well, since our entire kit except two skills (and one turns into an AoE proc) cleaves.

About Boomkin, maybe they're fine? Look, this is a log from our Draogns kill yesterday click. As you can see, the Fire Mage outDPS my burst AoE into the shades, but the Moonkin is not that far behind. The Boomkin is also pushing way more ST damage than I am. It is probably not the best log to take conclusions of, since Shades only spawn in one side before the boss dies, but you can take an idea.

[Deleted]

If you cared to check my sig (and assuming you even know how to use warcraftlogs) you'd be able to see them. Where's yours?
Implying DH is such a complex class and that they've changed so much since EN release to say that no one but 80th% DH players comment on a thread on a public forum. Who are these world class DH that you know so well? I'd love to see just how high ranked they are. I guess because i only raid 2 nights/week I must be a terrible player with no idea how to play this game.

"Skill Cap
Demon Hunters are a simpler class so there won't be such a huge gap between the best and worst players.
Sometimes there have been huge skill gaps between the best and worst players, such as Feral Druids in WotLK."

Quote from the legion developer Q&A 29th August. Even the blues are saying the class was designed to be easy. They're not going to give a class that can close 40 yards in 2 globals the same DPS as a fire mage. They'd be the most insane thing in the game and everyone and their dog would be playing one.
News flash speak to any player in the world playing any DPS class that isn't fire mage, arms warrior, feral druid or shadow priest and they'll also say they need ST tuning. Just because DH isn't top of the pack doesn't mean the sky is falling and that they're anything but a viable class considering so many guilds stacked them during progress before the throw glaive nerf.

EXCUSE ME WHAT!? ppl where just stacking dh:s becuse they where superior in mythic before keystone higher came out, becuse the fact is they have good burst aoe(Hell some even have same but better sustained aoe)

mobility? you really gotta be some sort of stupid if you think DH,have high moblity. monks have more mobility that does not effect damage input.

so i am gonna explain for you for once so you understand, DH:s using fel rush to get away without hitting anything is like missing a major ability of any class on nothing and losing a 20% dmg buff that amplifies our damage, not only that this one you see have COOLDOWN.

give me a break about mages ive played since vanilla, yes you heard me right vanilla, played with ppl from awakening,nihilium,MoX list goes on.

fact is DH:s Are underperforming the fact is most DH:s are players who have played the game under a long time(yes there is bad players and good players)

But fact to matter is DH:s are weak both ST and aoe.

They dont win on any of these.
There is other classes that also needs a buff DK:S for instance, how about we take this for example feral druid should have Best ST Damage, PERIOD their aoe is garbage but you see the firemages deals almost identical ST dps, and does better sustained and almost the same burst aoe(not on demand the same,due to cast time and such but nevertheless same burst aoe)

and its sustained, say what?

mages dont deserve a nerf?

about DH:s being easy to play dh is easy to play hard to master i could give u IDENTICAL dh with same gear and everything i would pull 50k more dps than you if not more , you know why becuse you are clueless, the mechanics are simple but the min/maxing on perfecting the rotation pays off a lot compared to other speccs they can do 1 mistake it does not hurt their dps much, on dh on the other han you fuck up a tiny bit.

The dps diffrence is signifgant, and wanna know somthing else?

dh havoc are far from toptier in pvp aswell in high rating, SAY WHAAAAAAT!? you SAID WHAT!?

- - - Updated - - -

So to "perform well" in your eyes, a mythic raider with 4/7 kills, there's an added layer of depth by choosing a talent which leverages mobility. Cool - you've picked the class and you've decided that handling said mobility in high end content is fine for your skill level.
Your argument would hold more weight if you'd said that the other talents in this tier need a buff (i agree they do) so that DH can stand still and put the numbers out that classes who are designed to stand still can do, rather than campaigning what the OP has made out as the sky is falling and there's literally no reason to take a DH to any level of content compared to every other dps spec in the game which is simply not true.

When i go to pug a low keystone mythic and i get a 860+ DH sign up he's usually my first choice because I know adds are going to melt inside his two stuns and two AoE abilities you can press and forget about, whether they vengeful retreat/fel rush or not. There's 0 skill involved there.
I still don't know where you get this idea that they're vastly under-performing in raids. They've got a plethora of hypothetical scenarios where they're very strong - it's just that most of the bosses in EN are trash-free for the most part and they haven't had a chance to shine.
On dragons last night, when we reached the spirit phase and our warlocks, shadowpriests and boomkins had a hard time staying on top of the adds, I'd have loved a DH in the group. Yet you don't see me making a balance druid thread complaining balance druids are garbage because we can't burst 1m AoE and suffer more than any class in the game when a fight involves any movement at all.

You still dont get it do you, DH is bad in higher difficulties mythic+ and raiding, why? well as said above high HP pools their aoe is burst. and in higher keystone you dont aoe somtimes its ST.

You can have fun all you want and think DH:s are good at the midtier trash tier pack that you are playing at.
but fact to the matter is they are bad in good hand of good players.

Also you are counter argumenting yourself you say DH are easy to play, if they are so easy to play how come the % of dmg is so low compared to other speccs then?

then it would bring up the avarage % of all the bad players dps, wich it does not.

[Deleted]

So to "perform well" in your eyes, a mythic raider with 4/7 kills, there's an added layer of depth by choosing a talent which leverages mobility. Cool - you've picked the class and you've decided that handling said mobility in high end content is fine for your skill level.
Your argument would hold more weight if you'd said that the other talents in this tier need a buff (i agree they do) so that DH can stand still and put the numbers out that classes who are designed to stand still can do, rather than campaigning what the OP has made out as the sky is falling and there's literally no reason to take a DH to any level of content compared to every other dps spec in the game which is simply not true.

1. He only pointed out that wth the Momentum-build, the very simple DH (which it is with DB, Nemesis) becomes a class that uses a repositioning ability every 6-7 seconds and has to manage a 4-second buff window efficiently, which alone makes it not "simple" anymore. Nothing more nothing less. Nobody has talked about DH being "hard" overall or among the hardest specs to play.

2. As many people in this thread, you apparently have a hard time reading. If you could freely choose from all available classes for any given fight in EN on mythic, DH would never be your choice. That doesn't mean that we are worthless, but please accept the simple fact that, next to DKs (who will be buffed wit 7.1), we are currently the worst performing class in raids. Again, "worst" does not mean useless, but it sure as hell does not mean "good".

When i go to pug a low keystone mythic and i get a 860+ DH sign up he's usually my first choice because I know adds are going to melt inside his two stuns and two AoE abilities you can press and forget about, whether they vengeful retreat/fel rush or not. There's 0 skill involved there.
I still don't know where you get this idea that they're vastly under-performing in raids. They've got a plethora of hypothetical scenarios where they're very strong - it's just that most of the bosses in EN are trash-free for the most part and they haven't had a chance to shine.
On dragons last night, when we reached the spirit phase and our warlocks, shadowpriests and boomkins had a hard time staying on top of the adds, I'd have loved a DH in the group. Yet you don't see me making a balance druid thread complaining balance druids are garbage because we can't burst 1m AoE and suffer more than any class in the game when a fight involves any movement at all.

No one is complaining about the performance in M+, no one is denying that we are great there. So what is our point?

If you don't know why DHs are underperforming (the "vastly" is your own strawman btw), look at the links I provided above. And by the way, theoretically being good on raid Encounters that don't exist does mean absolutely nothing, sorry.

And as someone who played Balance all through WoD on a high level: you don't complain about Balance being garbage in raids because they are actually decent there, even if they have to move, because they do very well if the don't have to. If I could choose now, solely based on performance, between my Balance Druid and my DH, I would raid with my Druid. Who wouldn't?

[Jyggalag]

about DH:s being easy to play dh is easy to play hard to master i could give u IDENTICAL dh with same gear and everything i would pull 50k more dps than you if not more , you know why becuse you are clueless, the mechanics are simple but the min/maxing on perfecting the rotation pays off a lot compared to other speccs they can do 1 mistake it does not hurt their dps much, on dh on the other han you fuck up a tiny bit.

Hate to derail from what was once a constructive thread on DH ST but has now resorted to personal insults and troll baits like this, but since you went there I think it's only right that I point out that I'm 4/7M in a 2 night/week guild. Last expansion I was in world top 30 guild with legendary ranks to show for it, MoP i finished with every realm best CM time on 2 servers, Cata i was in r1 RBG team in europe for 2 seasons. Let's see an armory link or some logs if you're as good as you say and I'm completely clueless. I've sent my tag in a message and we can go to a dummy on PTR and I'll record for the whole mmo-c community to see

[Deix-EU]

Hate to derail from what was once a constructive thread on DH ST but has now resorted to personal insults and troll baits like this, but since you went there I think it's only right that I point out that I'm 4/7M in a 2 night/week guild. Last expansion I was in world top 30 guild with legendary ranks to show for it, MoP i finished with every realm best CM time on 2 servers, Cata i was in r1 RBG team in europe for 2 seasons. Let's see an armory link or some logs if you're as good as you say and I'm completely clueless. I've sent my tag in a message and we can go to a dummy on PTR and I'll record for the whole mmo-c community to see

Old Top 5 world, Top 3 EU Old vanilla Ragnaros, Top 2nd world Treat Per Second (so, DPS as a War tank on Teron/patchwerk) rank along with Xavastrasz from Premonition here. Played with some Method guys too.
Now I've got far more responsibilities in my job I can't compete and pure time casual so my point of view could be biased but I'm saying DH is the "not complex" but more "difficult" class to play at high level of performance because of what they already told to you before. I guess you know the difference between "complex" and "difficult": yes DH can be played easily to be "average", but needs to be on steroïds and red bull to be played competitive way, besides needing a high sense of prediction and contextual visual space skills.

You right, to be "good" without too much effort (like mages, WW Monk (I played in MoP with Top 5 world ranks), well others except maybe SP), we need our "simple" abilities to be on par with the mobility / cleave ones (30% of our ST damage) and currently they are far behind. But in fact, it's a difficult problem cause we would be also far bahind in AoE if it was the case. The class need a rethinking and that's what we ask for.

[Deleted]

I really enjoy the playstyle of havoc with the momentum build. People are claiming that we are not mobile at all because we simply use our mobility tools for dps, however I never really found myself in a situation where I had nothing at all to escape from something or to reach to a target quickly. Fel rush is on such a short cooldown I really cant see that having no mobility as a DH should be an issue. Would we be much more mobile if we didnt have to use our fel rush and vengeful retreat for dps though? Absolutely. But is there really any situation at all in emerald nightmare or in any mythic dungeon where you need 2 x fel rush and vengeful retreat at the same time? Most of the time just a simple fel rush is much more than enough for me to reposition/reach to a point quickly or just run away from something.

The real issue with the momentum build is that sometimes it fcks you really hard and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. Take Elerethe Renferal for example, if you get Web of Pain as a DH you can basically forget about your DPS because for a minute you wont be using your fel rush or vengeful retreat (unless you wanna butcher your melee group). This happened to me yesterday on 2 pulls, and I was just standing there like a moron, waiting for that stupid debuff to fall off so that I can use fel rush and vengeful retreat again. As a result, I had shitty DPS at the end of the fight because I wasnt able to use momentum for a minute. It was honestly such a frustrating experience for me that I came up with the name Cancerethe Ebolaferal.

I just wish there would be some other build that we could use for situations like this, because momentum build is completely dead in this kind of situations.

Other than that, it is crystal clear that we need single target buffs. I can't see any reasons why they can't just buff demon's bite/demon blades damage a bit or just buff chaos strike damage. This would simply increase our single target without affecting our aoe at all.

[Frozenbro]

Im gonna put the suggestions i did on the wow forum that was started by Reis (a great thread btw) to keep it constructive and that way Jyggalag can see we aren´t asking for simple buffs to make us top, if you could go and take a look at that thread, you would see that there are really good ideas there that dont make us op at all, but rather fix our ST problems without messing with aoe and specially SEPARATING our aoe and single once and for all, neither of us want to be topping charts, we want to be competitive in ST with the amount of effort that a properly used momentum build takes.

1-Remove the Bloodlet nerf and make it so if Throw glaive hits only 1 target, bloodlet deals 200% of TG initial damage, if it hits more than 1 target, bloodlet deals 150% of TG initial damage.

2-Buff Chaos strike by something between 5-10% (cant be more since chaos strike deals too much dmg in single target and higher numbers would make us top and none of us want that).

3-If eye beam does dmg to only 1 target, its damage is increased by 100% (dont know why they havent done this to FotI too even when fel eruption has this mechanic, Ice Nova and such, it can be lower too, maybe 100% would ramp up anguish dmg too much).

4-Fel mastery increases fel rush damage by 30%, if it damages only 1 target, it increases fel rush damage by 50% instead.

5-Demon speed: Activating Fury of the Illidari/Eye Beam generates 2 charges of fel rush (dps tied to dps as it should be, im fking tired of a dps cd tied to a defensive cd, its just stupid).

6- Felblade now deals chaos damage and leaves Chaos Wound, a debuff that lasts 6 seconds and makes your chaos strikes to deal 50% of their initial damage over 3 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times.

7- Since deceiver´s fury is the trait that needs to be taken before Inner Demons, and Inner demons is tied to chaos strike, why deceiver´s fury isnt? its complete trash, make it increase chaos strike critical chance by 2% each rank, 6% critical chance at rank 3, even a 3% critical chance at rank 3 would be way better than the complete garbage that deceiver´s fury is right now.

8-Meta cd is too long, each Fel rush cast reduces metamorphosis cooldown by 5 seconds, this punishes fel rush capping.

9- Increase Chaos Blades duration to 20 seconds, 12 seconds just feels weird and clunky.

10- Increase our Mastery value, on paper seems like "ah it increases my chaos damage abilities, i deal a lot of chaos damage, this must be really good" but no, its not, its awful, and this is just bad design, even with chaos blades on its still awful.

[Deleted]

Im gonna put the suggestions i did on the wow forum that was started by Reis (a great thread btw) to keep it constructive and that way Jyggalag can see we aren´t asking for simple buffs to make us top, if you could go and take a look at that thread, you would see that there are really good ideas there that dont make us op at all, but rather fix our ST problems without messing with aoe and specially SEPARATING our aoe and single once and for all, neither of us want to be topping charts, we want to be competitive in ST with the amount of effort that a properly used momentum build takes.

1-Remove the Bloodlet nerf and make it so if Throw glaive hits only 1 target, bloodlet deals 200% of TG initial damage, if it hits more than 1 target, bloodlet deals 150% of TG initial damage.

2-Buff Chaos strike by something between 5-10% (cant be more since chaos strike deals too much dmg in single target and higher numbers would make us top and none of us want that).

3-If eye beam does dmg to only 1 target, its damage is increased by 100% (dont know why they havent done this to FotI too even when fel eruption has this mechanic, Ice Nova and such, it can be lower too, maybe 100% would ramp up anguish dmg too much).

4-Fel mastery increases fel rush damage by 30%, if it damages only 1 target, it increases fel rush damage by 50% instead.

5-Demon speed: Activating Fury of the Illidari/Eye Beam generates 2 charges of fel rush (dps tied to dps as it should be, im fking tired of a dps cd tied to a defensive cd, its just stupid).

6- Felblade now deals chaos damage and leaves Chaos Wound, a debuff that lasts 6 seconds and makes your chaos strikes to deal 50% of their initial damage over 3 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times.

7- Since deceiver´s fury is the trait that needs to be taken before Inner Demons, and Inner demons is tied to chaos strike, why deceiver´s fury isnt? its complete trash, make it increase chaos strike critical chance by 2% each rank, 6% critical chance at rank 3, even a 3% critical chance at rank 3 would be way better than the complete garbage that deceiver´s fury is right now.

8-Meta cd is too long, each Fel rush cast reduces metamorphosis cooldown by 5 seconds, this punishes fel rush capping.

9- Increase Chaos Blades duration to 20 seconds, 12 seconds just feels weird and clunky.

10- Increase our Mastery value, on paper seems like "ah it increases my chaos damage abilities, i deal a lot of chaos damage, this must be really good" but no, its not, its awful, and this is just bad design, even with chaos blades on its still awful.

I like most of those ideas, there's one or two that are overkill tho, in my opinion.

What do you guys think of a new spell that gives us full fury, like ferals and ww monks have? 2min cooldown so it isnt full.blown op

[Deleted]

@Frozenbro

Too much in my opinion and it would result in us being seriously OP. I think DHs are fine overall and just need some tweaks here or there. I also think that Momentum should remain the best choice, because it is significant "harder" to pull off well.

I see the need to somehow buff Prepared, because DBs is not only easier to play, but pulls more and more ahead of playing with Demons Bite with better gear. Imo the easier to play option should never be flat out better than the more difficult Option.

I like most of those ideas, there's one or two that are overkill tho, in my opinion.

What do you guys think of a new spell that gives us full fury, like ferals and ww monks have? 2min cooldown so it isnt full.blown op

I don't think thats a good idea (especially on a 2 Minute CD). That would "only" mean a few extra Chaos Strikes (2-4) every two minutes. Also, Fury generation is not an issue for us (and getting even more irrelevant with Demon Blades at higher and higher gear levels). Especially in burst phases we are GCD-capped anyway and outside of it, a little more Fury doesn't do that much, I think.

[Shirofune]

@Frozenbro

Too much in my opinion and it would result in us being seriously OP. I think DHs are fine overall and just need some tweaks here or there. I also think that Momentum should remain the best choice, because it is significant "harder" to pull off well.

I see the need to somehow buff Prepared, because DBs is not only easier to play, but pulls more and more ahead of playing with Demons Bite with better gear. Imo the easier to play option should never be flat out better than the more difficult Option.


I don't think thats a good idea (especially on a 2 Minute CD). That would "only" mean a few extra Chaos Strikes (2-4) every two minutes. Also, Fury generation is not an issue for us (and getting even more irrelevant with Demon Blades at higher and higher gear levels). Especially in burst phases we are GCD-capped anyway and outside of it, a little more Fury doesn't do that much, I think.

I've to correct you about Demon Blades. While Prepared makes you use VR more, it doesn't add depth to the rotation.

Demon Blades, while it seems at first glace it removes a part of the rotation, what it really does is giving it more depth. With prepared you don't have to track your AAs at all, with DBs, you do, and you've to time your rotation around that. You're not GCD locked, true, but your Fury generation is something that is actually harder to track.

I don't think DBs needs more nerfs at this point, if you ask me. I was one of those that though DB was a talent that shouldn't exist at the beginning, before trying it.

[Deleted]

I've to correct you about Demon Blades. While Prepared makes you use VR more, it doesn't add depth to the rotation.

Demon Blades, while it seems at first glace it removes a part of the rotation, what it really does is giving it more depth. With prepared you don't have to track your AAs at all, with DBs, you do, and you've to time your rotation around that. You're not GCD locked, true, but your Fury generation is something that is actually harder to track.

I don't think DBs needs more nerfs at this point, if you ask me. I was one of those that though DB was a talent that shouldn't exist at the beginning, before trying it.

You're right, I somehow ignored that you can play Momentum without Prepared. Silly me. Must have been to much work this week =)

Thanks!

[Frozenbro]

@Frozenbro

Too much in my opinion and it would result in us being seriously OP. I think DHs are fine overall and just need some tweaks here or there. I also think that Momentum should remain the best choice, because it is significant "harder" to pull off well.

I see the need to somehow buff Prepared, because DBs is not only easier to play, but pulls more and more ahead of playing with Demons Bite with better gear. Imo the easier to play option should never be flat out better than the more difficult Option.


I don't think thats a good idea (especially on a 2 Minute CD). That would "only" mean a few extra Chaos Strikes (2-4) every two minutes. Also, Fury generation is not an issue for us (and getting even more irrelevant with Demon Blades at higher and higher gear levels). Especially in burst phases we are GCD-capped anyway and outside of it, a little more Fury doesn't do that much, I think.

Maybe you misunderstood me, theres no need to do all of those ideas, its just some ideas and blizz could take only 1 or a couple of them, if blizz implement all of the ideas i mentioned , we would be far too op and personally i would hate the fact of being so broken, but for example the change to eye beam so it deals more damage on single target doesnt seem bad to me, since it should be used in ST everytime its up given the fact thats it has a medium cd, but thats not the reality, its so bad that you need to actually have anguish so it can be barely ahead of 1 chaos strike, and thats just awful, that and the change to Demon speed, i hate to lose a defensive cd just cause it gives yoo much dps to your burst, its nonsense