Devs answer to Outlaw

[Maelstrom51]

Do this and you will have the same problem in beta; people just rolling to get true bearing and then spam RT.

What makes you think that?

[Mafic]

This is so defeatist. SND should be deleted from the game, not made useful. Old ability from a spec that doesn't exist anymore. The answer to fixing Outlaw is not to slowly turn it into an even-less-interesting version of combat.

SND if buffed or added leech mechanic would instantly become a lot better than Roll the Bones. A buff to SnD is better than the current situation where relying on RNG of Roll the Bones.

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I think the ideal fix for Outlaw would be for single buffs to be 50% stronger.

This would help the poor RNG end of Outlaw without buffing the good RNG end, and also make it less likely that you need to reroll buffs.

I agree.

Just keep True Bearing in its current state and revert the nerfs of individual buffs they did in beta. Buried Treasure for example was nerfed to the ground as it once was a decent buff on its own.

There was a time when you could roll with a single buff like shark infested waters and wouldn't fear your DPS tanking.

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Do this and you will have the same problem in beta; people just rolling to get true bearing and then spam RT.

Keep True Bearing as it is or shave off a second per combo point. Buff the rest of the buffs to be viable as single target buffs.

As I said Blizzard is balancing around six roll bonanza but that is stupid from a practical game play point of view. Tell Blizzard to put down their spread sheets and go play the spec in a live setting.

[Xanatu]

Snd is so fucking boring, holy shit. Why do any of you people want that tired brain dead ability back? Its thr definition of a pointless maintenance buff. Also snd doesnt have to beat rtb, it has to beat rtb and mfd.

[Notter]

Snd is so fucking boring, holy shit. Why do any of you people want that tired brain dead ability back? Its thr definition of a pointless maintenance buff. Also snd doesnt have to beat rtb, it has to beat rtb and mfd.

Yeah, I don't get it either.
It must be people that have played Combat previously, and it was "taken away" from them, and they still want that.
Blizzard screwed up by making SnD a talent, they should have removed any trace of the old Combat rogue, so people would be able to move on, instead of clinging to a spec that doesn't exist anymore.

[pies1]

Yeah, I don't get it either.
It must be people that have played Combat previously, and it was "taken away" from them, and they still want that.
Blizzard screwed up by making SnD a talent, they should have removed any trace of the old Combat rogue, so people would be able to move on, instead of clinging to a spec that doesn't exist anymore.

Or maybe they just don't like a spec designed around RNG and facebook memes.

[Notter]

Or maybe they just don't like a spec designed around RNG and facebook memes.

so why are they trying to change a spec they don't even like instead of focusing on a something that they do like?

[Maelstrom51]

so why are they trying to change a spec they don't even like instead of focusing on a something that they do like?

You're asking why people would want to make the game more fun for themselves?

[shaunika123]

Or maybe they just don't like a spec designed around RNG and facebook memes.

and yet they were sooo happy with 6.2 sub in all it's soul capacitoring RNG bullshit glory

every spec is designed around RNG

seal fate is RNG
shadow techniques is RNG
fingers of frost is RNG

just because something's random doesnt make it inherently bad, that's what makes outlaw so interactive in the first place, that it's gameplay isnt a script but dynamic.

[Mafic]

Saying 6.2 Sub was RNG is pretty far from the truth. The dominant part of 6.2 Sub was shadow dance (one use player input) and lining it up with procs. But Sub 6.2 was definitely not defined by RNG blade twisting which minimized the RNG with more mastery stacking. The problem is the Roll the Bones is the dominant part of Outlaw spec design and you can't have RNG being a dominant part of spec design as it has been shown the past decade in WoW. Not convinced? Look at Arms or Fury warriors the last four years as evidence of bad mojo when designing a dominate aspect of the spec to be RNG.

SnD can be made interesting and it should be. Because WoW devs do not want to change Roll the Bones now, because they are convinced that RNG dominance makes the game interesting.

I disagree 100%. SnD provides a level of consistency that defines what Rogues have always been and set the standard for that consistency.

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and yet they were sooo happy with 6.2 sub in all it's soul capacitoring RNG bullshit glory

just because something's random doesnt make it inherently bad, that's what makes outlaw so interactive in the first place, that it's gameplay isnt a script but dynamic.

The devs took that away when the nerfed the individual buffs to the ground for the most part. Now you fish for two buffs. That isn't dynamic at all if we are to be honest. When the individual buffs were stronger it did change the way you played.

You are describing a spec that hasn't played the way you are outlining for a while now. It has been dead some time.

What is left is weaker buffs that require two up to make them as potent as they used to be as singular buffs. Blizz messed it up.

[Nikkaszal]

I would be happy with SnD being buffed to the point where it is the go-to for ST fights or ones with a critical burn phase, where Outlaw DPS fluctuates so hard based on good/bad RTBs. Then keep MFD as the go-to for fights with short-lived adds and DFA for sustained AoE against long-living targets.

[Varaben]

Problem with playing SnD is that MFD is so very strong on add fights where you can spam it over and over, especially on packs of 3-5 where you can cleave too. So unless SnD is significantly buffed, I can't imagine taking it over MFD.

[Xanatu]

MFD is not just an add ability. You get 2-3 free MFDs a minute during an average fight thanks to true bearing, assuming normal rng.

I can't say enough that I think wanting SND back is pathetic and regressive. It should be removed from the game; if it is EVER viable, Blizzard has completely admitted defeat on Outlaw.

[Valnar]

Or maybe they just don't like a spec designed around RNG and facebook memes.

Then why not play sin or sub if they don't like the RNG?

[Wow]

Then why not play sin or sub if they don't like the RNG?

The funny thing here is assassin can rng up 6 roll dmg but when it doesn't it's base dmg is still better than outlaw.

[Valnar]

The funny thing here is assassin can rng up 6 roll dmg but when it doesn't it's base dmg is still better than outlaw.

That's a numbers issue though, average outlaw damage can be buffed. The guy I was quoting seemed to have an issue with RtB fundamentally.

[Wow]

What i'm saying is sub and assassin are also rng just that do a lot better without winning the lottery but you are still looking at high rng no matter the spec. St assassination is basically pre nerf outlaw normal rng good dmg, strong good rng insane dmg.

Tldr: switching specs won't get you away from rng it will just get you more base dmg.

[Nikkaszal]

MFD is not just an add ability. You get 2-3 free MFDs a minute during an average fight thanks to true bearing, assuming normal rng.

I can't say enough that I think wanting SND back is pathetic and regressive. It should be removed from the game; if it is EVER viable, Blizzard has completely admitted defeat on Outlaw.

And if you don't roll TB, you don't get those. That's the problem.

If I get TB on the pull with CotDB up, that's great - I'll have 3 MFDs during my ARush, and Arush itself will reset in under a minute. My DPS skyrockets. If not? SHIT OUTTA LUCK.

SnD may not be an "interesting" ability, but it is RELIABLE. That is, you can depend on it to output what you need all the time. If you think about it, RtB is the same flavour - a maintenance buff that you keep refreshing just before it falls off, with the caveat of RNG meaning your refresh is either outstanding, really good or total rubbish with very little middle ground. Over the course of a fight this usually ends up evening itself up but if you get shitty rolls at critical periods such as on the pull or during burn phases, RNG will straight up tank your usefulness and there is NOTHING you can do about it except roll again.

A measure of reliability is what is needed. I would be over the moon if sweeping changes to RTB came in to eliminate the need to constantly re-roll during bad luck streaks, but until then having SnD buffed to be usable for reliable output is an option.

The only other thing they could do with the tier if not changing RtB itself would be to change SnD to a talent that guarantees SIF and TB on your next roll, but thats is equally disinteresting from a class fantasy POV.

[Dangus]

Snd is so fucking boring, holy shit. Why do any of you people want that tired brain dead ability back? Its thr definition of a pointless maintenance buff. Also snd doesnt have to beat rtb, it has to beat rtb and mfd.

i made an account just so i can fucking say if we get SnD viable again itll be due to all these fucking trash casuals who have no idea how fucking shit it is. Maybe they are just lazy and bad and want to be brain dead while playing.

i hope mmo fkn dies if that happens, so many bads here talking about things they know nothing about.

ty for keeping it real xanatu and others.

p.s remove SnD from existence.

[Deleted]

i made an account just so i can fucking say if we get SnD viable again itll be due to all these fucking trash casuals who have no idea how fucking shit it is. Maybe they are just lazy and bad and want to be brain dead while playing.

i hope mmo fkn dies if that happens, so many bads here talking about things they know nothing about.

ty for keeping it real xanatu and others.

p.s remove SnD from existence.

yep I don't see a point in SnD either.
RtB maaaay be frustrating sometimes, but it's what makes the spec the most fun I had since years with the game. You always have to make decisions and adapt your playstyle with every single roll. Could it be buffed to be a bit less rng? Sure, but don't change it too much, it's fine. Just up our numbers.

[Igi]

Simple fix : RTB always rolls at least 2 buffs.