[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Floross]

I apologize if this may sound blunt, but is that a feeling or you have solid math behind it. By using ashes and crusade off the bat I may lose 2 gcds to cap stacks but I'm boosting the copied attacks by the potion.

[Torchbringer]

No. Pretend the prepot doesn't exist and take it slow. It's not worth it to gimp Crusade's dps to try and get more out of your prepot.

On the other hand I'm seeing a lot of rets WoA on pull. Think about it, if you WoA and judge on pull, assuming you have a crusade relic you'll still be able to WoA again under crusade, however with a massive dmg bonus, and you're getting more benefit from Old war.

In the end it'd be cool to stop theorycrafting about it and get some numbers though.

[OrcsRLame]

On the other hand I'm seeing a lot of rets WoA on pull. Think about it, if you WoA and judge on pull, assuming you have a crusade relic you'll still be able to WoA again under crusade, however with a massive dmg bonus, and you'll still be able to fire off those 2 remaining tv's just before crusade ends. You're getting the same amount of TV's it's just more stacked towards the end and you're getting more benefit from Old war.

In the end it'd be cool to stop theorycrafting about it and get some numbers though.

In my personal testing, WoA to stack faster yields more dps than WoA to activate Crusade faster. Keep in mind, that slower stacking also means less attacks used in total during Crusade.

I've tested this many many times, and for me WoA later has always yielded more dps. However, if @Thete wants to weigh in on this, I would gladly change my heathen ways if I found out for sure that I'm wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, this seems to be a widespread "rumor" in my guild as well. It was brought up whenever a trinket dropped during last nights raid.
While there seem to be no official mention about it, it certainly seems plausible. Consider just how damn bad/weak many of them are.

If I recall, it was mentioned during last week's Q&A that they'll be looking at some EN trinkets for possible tuning changes.

[Deleted]

For me its always judge - WoA - Crusade. Potion dmg for ret is crazy - with good gear and legendary back TV per GCD yield more dps than WoA (hit+dot).

[Snowfunk]

For me its always judge - WoA - Crusade. Potion dmg for ret is crazy - with good gear and legendary back TV per GCD yield more dps than WoA (hit+dot).

You're kind of contradicting yourself here.

It's not about the damage from WoA, it's about the HP.
Using WoA during Crusade is 1 Gcd to generate 5 HP, instead of using 4 Gcd's to generate 5 HP. That's a massive HPps increase (WoA also does more damage than at least 3 of these Gcd's combined. So it's definitely a Dps increase as well).

Starting Crusade with 5 HP and then use WoA means you ramp up faster, which means more time at max Crusade stacks.
You're playing as if you value the potion over time at max Crusade stacks.

[Deleted]

I've tested this many many times, and for me WoA later has always yielded more dps. However, if @Thete wants to weigh in on this, I would gladly change my heathen ways if I found out for sure that I'm wrong.

I don't believe I've ever seen a log where someone has used WoA before Crusade to save it for on the finished stacks. To do this you'd need at least two points in Wrath of the Ashbringer from relics, which seems unlikely at the moment. Simply having one relic for 30 seconds Crusade wouldn't be suitable because you'd WoA - J - Crusade and then start spending. Your WoA would only come off cooldown with maybe a second to spare before Crusade faded, meaning the DoT wouldn't be affected at all, only the main damage. Given that you'd have also built your stacks up more slowly as well, means it would be an overall DPS loss.

[Deleted]

So.. Guys, when is the best moment to start casting DS at 2 targets? With Divine Tempest an 3 points in Righteous Blade, or am i wrong?

[Deleted]

So.. Guys, when is the best moment to start casting DS at 2 targets? With Divine Tempest an 3 points in Righteous Blade, or am i wrong?

When your DS does more than half of the damage of your TV.

[Deleted]

just saw some trinket raitings on discord is swarming plaguehive really worth it?

[Lunavale]

just saw some trinket raitings on discord is swarming plaguehive really worth it?

yes

10char.

[Deleted]

yes

10char.

thanks for getting back to me. now i just have to convice our heals that i should get the "caster" trinket before them

[Deleted]

Got an relic upgrade but what's better ? An +2 ilvl push or +2,5sec crusader ?

[Justpassing]

Got an relic upgrade but what's better ? An +2 ilvl push or +2,5sec crusader ?

+2.5 sec Crusade.

[OrcsRLame]

just saw some trinket raitings on discord is swarming plaguehive really worth it?

How good we talking here?

[Lunavale]

How good we talking here?

An 880 plaguehive is easily one of the top 3 trinkets next to FCM and arcano crystal. I've seen conflicting sims on if it is actually better than arcano crystal (most likely it depends on gear), but considering it is substantially easier to get assuming you have a decent raid group, I'd say it's pretty much bis.

It is also still proccing in 7.1 even without BoW being holy dmg, although I don't actually know if it's proccing less and thus has less value. Some cursory tests showed that it was fine however.

[Deleted]

thanks for getting back to me. now i just have to convice our heals that i should get the "caster" trinket before them

Have to be careful not to overstate it. When I've looked at good logs using it the damage, though decent, is not on the same level as a much lower item level FCM. Also, if the haste would go to waste, then that devalues it as well unless you can swap a load out. It's a competitive trinket, but not BiS by any stretch, and the value varies from person to person and by item level.

[ujx]

I got a 865 Plaguehive this week. Replaced my 850 Alch stone. According to the sim, it should have been a ~4k dps upgrade. After equipping it and running my own sim, it was a ~1k dps downgrade. So one of the two is wrong. Also the haste gained from the Plaguehive was definitely not wasted. Without it I am at 17% haste, with it 20% haste.

[Deleted]

I got a 865 Plaguehive this week. Replaced my 850 Alch stone. According to the sim, it should have been a ~4k dps upgrade. After equipping it and running my own sim, it was a ~1k dps downgrade. So one of the two is wrong. Also the haste gained from the Plaguehive was definitely not wasted. Without it I am at 17% haste, with it 20% haste.

Have you tested it in game yet or only done sims? Since with conflicting sims the best you can do is some old fashioned target dummy grinding

[ujx]

Have you tested it in game yet or only done sims? Since with conflicting sims the best you can do is some old fashioned target dummy grinding

I did use it for a few heroic bosses.

Xavius: 5.39M - 3.71% of my damage
Cenarius: 4.73M - 4.10% of my damage
Il'gynoth - 2.22M - 2.73% of my damage

[Matafaka]

Is it worth to keep ilvl 855 relic (+45 item level) with increase damage to TV, or replace it with ilvl 840 (+40 item level) with increased wings time? I already have my wings at 30 seconds so this one will put me at 32.5. What do you guys think? Can I even sim this manually without replacing the artifact?

Also, does anyone have a WA script to track our blessings?