Havoc in Legion: 7.2.5 Guide

[Lucrece]

Hey everyone,

Bit of an update here - we’re looking into potentially making some changes to a few of Havoc’s talents, to diversify your options a bit and make certain rows feel more like there’s a choice to be made.

No details to share just yet, and these changes won’t make it into Patch 7.1, but we’re working on it.

hmn, so no DH changes in 7.1 just got confirmed (bar snare break on vault)

edit: Actually re-reading this, it sounds like nerfs in hopes of creating "a choice".

They are going to nerf the dominant choices and give marginal boosts to the shit talents, making for an overall nerf as usual.

How can anybody trust these idiots when shadow priests are trailing something as OP as fire mages by more than 10%, the balance this expansion is atrocious and made all the worse because you can't even change specs given that the artifacts are such a massive time sink.

[Shirofune]

If they're nerfing DHs again, I'm done. I'm rerolling. How can they be so fucking stupid is something I don't understand.

That post clearly posted the ST issues and they're coming with "we want talent diversity". Well, can't you not see with the DOMINANT talents that the issues are still there? How do you plan to fix the issues even if you only buff the non-performing talents when we need BUFFS, not a balance between talents? (don't get me wrong, we need that balance, but not now)

[Deleted]

If they're nerfing DHs again, I'm done. I'm rerolling. How can they be so fucking stupid is something I don't understand.

That post clearly posted the ST issues and they're coming with "we want talent diversity". Well, can't you not see with the DOMINANT talents that the issues are still there? How do you plan to fix the issues even if you only buff the non-performing talents when we need BUFFS, not a balance between talents? (don't get me wrong, we need that balance, but not now)

In this moment, DH performs with:
- Legendary Ring
- 48%+ Crit
- 8%+ Vers
- Good Trinkets

without these elements, DH sucks in single target. stop

[Deix-EU]

In this moment, DH performs with:
- Legendary Ring
- 48%+ Crit
- 8%+ Vers
- Good Trinkets

without these elements, DH sucks in single target. stop

Relic are doing a lot better than stats from classic gear. Weapon damage is a great deal to. Even if you have thoses stats you could not perform at top because of low relics. Too many elements is linked to our "performing", but as well as other classes mind you. Some are just better in scaling.

[Deleted]

There's something I've been meaning to ask for a while. I keep seeing these posts saying x stat has moved higher as a priority for me and so on. Where exactly are you getting recommendations for your stat priorities based on current distribution?

[Shirofune]

There's something I've been meaning to ask for a while. I keep seeing these posts saying x stat has moved higher as a priority for me and so on. Where exactly are you getting recommendations for your stat priorities based on current distribution?

Simcraft. Simulate yourself to check your current weights.

[dunkfist]

The most painful thing about watching all this go down is a simple bandaid buff to Chaos Strike would fix our biggest concern right now while they look at "revamping" our talents (and yes I'm scared to death what this means after watching what they did to warlocks). Buffing CS would NOT break the game in any way and placate a lot of DH outcry.

[jayinjersey]

Having done both jobs in my life...that's a technician solution and not an engineer solution.


Technicians tend to patch something, then fix the underlying issue
Engineers tend to find the underlying issue and fix it even if that means prolonging the problem.


Don't get me wrong not saying there aren't positives and negatives to either way of thinking, just what I have seen over the years in the different thought processes.

[ryan11d7]

So after Barrage got tweaked a little, is it still the go to for any fight with more than 1 target?

[Deix-EU]

Having done both jobs in my life...that's a technician solution and not an engineer solution.


Technicians tend to patch something, then fix the underlying issue
Engineers tend to find the underlying issue and fix it even if that means prolonging the problem.


Don't get me wrong not saying there aren't positives and negatives to either way of thinking, just what I have seen over the years in the different thought processes.

But they aren't any more "technicians". Engineers everywhere. They are just good ones with good career and ones left out to do the "technician" ROLE. You don't have anymore this separation, hierarchy is getting flat even more and natural leaders are born. Well, out of subject but I disagree cause it's more a way to deal with things even if you are engineer. Planning driven you'll patch either way and think about a better solution after. Budget driven you can convince market or money stakeholder to take more time for the solution. Guess it's not the case everytime and everywhere, especially for big companies not dedicated to NTIC.

[Pigglix]

NO WAY Eye Beam should be a talent, its iconic to the class. Make blade dance be a talent instead if you want go this way, lol.

[jayinjersey]

Eye beam is not iconic to the class....if it was it would be used by BOTH specs

[Pigglix]

No it wouldnt, alot of classes are doing the same or more aoe than us.

You know what would fix us? If blizz had the balls to give us the same treatment of fire mages.

Or just revert all the damn nerfs

Hell, even Ion said that "we werent buffing classes that do poor aoe because on high M+ lvls you will be cc'ing more and STing more, so , give a shot to those classes".

So, wth did they nerfed our aoe in the first place?

Also, Eye Beam isnt new at all, just look at illidan Art shooting lazers with his eyes, hell, even before the DH was playable in alpha, people were asking that DH should have Eye Beam like Illidan, so yeah, its iconic to the class alongside with Meta. But Blade Dance? Now that is the "killing spree'

[Nalistar]

I don't know whether Eye Beam can be considered iconic to Demon Hunter or not, but it seems to be one of the abilities we get that are modeled after the ones Illidan is shown using in the scenario "Ravencrest's Legacy" (one of the flashback when you are using Illidan as a character), when he was stil a mage.

The ability in question is Fury of the Cosmos, that shares the animation with Eye Beam (without the metamorphosis part ofc)

The other ones are Stormrage (a leap that uses the same animation of Infernal Strike) and Warhawk (a backflip with the same visuals of Vengeful Retreat).

Illidan is the one that taught us our abilities after all.

As per making it a talent, I doubt that'd happen in Legion (if ever) since one of our golden traits is based on buffing it and would have to be reworked as well.

[aGit]

So after Barrage got tweaked a little, is it still the go to for any fight with more than 1 target?

short answer: yes.

longer answer: depending on the content you're doing, generally speaking, the adds die with or without your barrage, and what matters is single target. What this means is, if you want to pad the meters, go for barrage. . in mythic+ both are good. in raiding environment like the EN, most fights can be done with both talents, only ursoc and nythendra really call for chaos blades. rest are up to you to decide if your raid setup needs the cleave or the single target. almost always, if you want to look good on meters, barrage is the way to go.

[Zencurse]

I'm too lazy to quote. Basically most Mythic DH's that are placing on WoWLogs are playing CB on pretty much every fight along with DB due to fact that you really don't need extra cleave with FB as the mythic players in those groups are good enough at the game to not need the extra cleave to get the job done. Technically it removes a bit of DH niche (cleave/AOE, albeit not the best) but for the groups that do bring a DH for one reason or another it just simply isn't needed. If you find yourself in a situation where an add isn't dying fast enough or you aren't pushing a phase on a boss and need the extra AOE def take it. Otherwise you're simply gimping yourself in favor of padding meters.

[Deix-EU]

I don't know whether Eye Beam can be considered iconic to Demon Hunter or not, but it seems to be one of the abilities we get that are modeled after the ones Illidan is shown using in the scenario "Ravencrest's Legacy" (one of the flashback when you are using Illidan as a character), when he was stil a mage.

The ability in question is Fury of the Cosmos, that shares the animation with Eye Beam (without the metamorphosis part ofc)

The other ones are Stormrage (a leap that uses the same animation of Infernal Strike) and Warhawk (a backflip with the same visuals of Vengeful Retreat).

Illidan is the one that taught us our abilities after all.

As per making it a talent, I doubt that'd happen in Legion (if ever) since one of our golden traits is based on buffing it and would have to be reworked as well.

It's iconic to the role play and old vanilla players know this.
Leotheras, Illidan ...

[Restitution]

I am currently sitting at 50% crit fully buffed. Should i reenchant my gear to vers/haste based off sim? My haste is currently at 6% which seems really low. If i changed my enchants, i could probably get to 45% crit and 9/10% haste.

[Deleted]

anyone played around with the hidden DB change on PTR?

[Vetement]

Simcraft results are giving me haste as my most valuable stat, could this be actually correct?