Artifact appearance gated behind the nighthold.

[Tradu]

And what's your suggestion to better the system. If we say that it shouldn't work this way, in what way would you design it? So that you get appearances from achievements themselves? Or what's the deal here.

You finally got it! Yes, the better way of doing it would be to unlock the thing the forge tells you you'll get for reaching the milestone immediately, rather than gating it behind an entirely unrelated milestone.

[Krille]

The OP completed a fairly difficult feat (Mythic 15) because the artifact table told him that feat would unlock a skin for his artifact. Afterwards, it turned out that he had to complete Balance of Power too, which won't be out until next year, and in any case is on a considerably lower level of difficulty.

Apart from the false advertisement on the artifact table, the delay is also going to make his reward worth less. Mythic 15 is going to become less and less hard with ilvl increases. Right now, he could have been one of the few people on his server with that skin if it was made available to him as advertised, but after Nighthold releases, it will already become less special, since more people will be able to do it with the better gear.

I see a valid complaint. And he didn't throw a temper tantrum or threaten to quit. He said "Abit salty tbh ".

Can we agree your position isn't really justified?

But i'm not talking about the OP specifically. In general there's a huge want-community in WoW. And when they realize it's going to take a while, they end up on MMO-Champion and cry about it and want it changed so they can get everything they WANT at this instant, now preferrably.

[Tradu]

A great deal to finish m+15 for sure but let's be honest...m+15 is not meant to be completed now since it's difficulty is waaay higher and spending several hours in an instance that is supposed to be finished in a certain amount of time is destroying the achivement tbh

Still need to beat the timer on the M+ levels below it to even get the +15 keystone in the first place.

[kennytheone]

As I said it's a great deal but I am pretty sure blizzard wasn't planning for ppl to clear mythic +15 within two months of release.

[Tradu]

As I said it's a great deal but I am pretty sure blizzard wasn't planning for ppl to clear mythic +15 within two months of release.

Then Blizzard once again severely underestimated their playerbase. You'd think eventually they'd learn that people will beat the content they put into the game.

[Krille]

And I am doing that. I'm using the group finder to take down a bunch of powerful enemies out in the world.
Unfortunately, Blizzard are trying desperately to keep organised raiding relevant, so they're holding rewards earned outside of raiding hostage.

I mean they do most of their storytelling in expansions through raiding, so of course they want the players to experience that.

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You finally got it! Yes, the better way of doing it would be to unlock the thing the forge tells you you'll get for reaching the milestone immediately, rather than gating it behind an entirely unrelated milestone.

That would be fine, i don't care enough either way. The only problem i see that it might produce people that are mindlessly trying to get these achievements and burn out on the content.

[kennytheone]

Yeah but not many people will wipe for hours and hours in a 5 man instance to clear something that in three months will be much easier

[Svisalith]

There are a hilarious amount of people in the thread who don't understand the complaint at all and seem to think that you're asking for the appearance without doing the achievement or something.

Did legion hero on week 2, yeah it's a slap in the face.

[slime]

I read somewhere that artifact appearances effect your DPS, HPS, and ability to tank. Also, Transmog = OP.

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There are a hilarious amount of people in the thread who don't understand the complaint at all and seem to think that you're asking for the appearance without doing the achievement or something.

Did legion hero on week 2, yeah it's a slap in the face.

too bad it isn't a lethal slap.

[Coconut]

But i'm not talking about the OP specifically. In general there's a huge want-community in WoW. And when they realize it's going to take a while, they end up on MMO-Champion and cry about it and want it changed so they can get everything they WANT at this instant, now preferrably.

So you are so filled with hate against that mentality that you see it everywhere and you feel a need to point it out and lash out even when it's not really what people are saying. Maybe you should take a step back and deal with your own attitude

I see what you are talking about, and I respect and agree with your view when that it is the case. But even when we're talking about time investment alone, sometimes the arguments that "the wait is too long" or "the grind is too hard" or "this content should be accessible to me" are justified, or at least entirely reasonable, and the people who make them aren't ADD kids.

If all you do is look for the "want it now" mentality in every complaint, and zero in on it, you will be wrong most of the time, and you will come off as hateful and aggressive, certainly not sober and mature.

[Blayze]

I mean they do most of their storytelling in expansions through raiding, so of course they want the players to experience that.

It's not about the storytelling, it's about them trying to make casuals into hardcores.
They tried it with Cataclysm to cover up the fact that there was fuck all endgame other than overtuned group content.

Why do you reckon we have Titanforging? It's to try and force casuals to become hardcore.
They know how the community works. They know that a higher iLevel available means a higher iLevel demanded.
Titanforging lets them increase the iLevel disparity between casuals and hardcores, which (a) keeps casuals out of the premade Group Finder until they cave and decide to become hardcore to try and meet the insane iLevel requirements demanded, and (b) satisfies the tryhards' incessant need for epeen.

[Lochton]

The problem is that the time gate also gates rewards that people have already earned according to the criteria listed in the artifact forge. That's not even extending content, it's just dumb. Needing to unlock the leftmost version of an artifact skin works for the other appearances because they happen in that order naturally, but that isn't the case for the Balance of Power row. It's just an issue with how Blizzard set up the unlocking of the appearances.

I have not been aware of what those rewards are, as some of the ones coming in the future, need things that'll be added in the future.

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There is plenty of content in legion. For me legion is a great expansions.
Still people need to stop confusing content and skill with simple timegates.
Its a lazy and bad design that belong in F2p mobile games and not MMO's.

Doesn't really matter on its own. Skill doesn't set the time for content either, not for MMO's. It is a needed design in the end, to avoid people consuming everything right away.

[Banquetto]

Does anyone think that any of the people yelling "entitled! work for it! challenge!" in this thread will ever beat a level 15 mythic+, or complete Glory of the Legion Hero before they ding level 120?

[Supercool]

Doesn't really matter on its own. Skill doesn't set the time for content either, not for MMO's. It is a needed design in the end, to avoid people consuming everything right away.

If that is the intended design (and I don't believe that it is, but we'll go with that), then it clearly failed.

There's really no way of looking at this situation that makes Blizzard look good.

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The OP completed a fairly difficult feat (Mythic 15) because the artifact table told him that feat would unlock a skin for his artifact. Afterwards, it turned out that he had to complete Balance of Power too, which won't be out until next year, and in any case is on a considerably lower level of difficulty.

Apart from the false advertisement on the artifact table, the delay is also going to make his reward worth less. Mythic 15 is going to become less and less hard with ilvl increases. Right now, he could have been one of the few people on his server with that skin if it was made available to him as advertised, but after Nighthold releases, it will already become less special, since more people will be able to do it with the better gear.

Pretty much sums it all up. I don't get some of the decisions Blizz has been making lately, as apart from the really big mistakes there are also these smaller but equally baffling calls being made that lead me to believe they're either clueless or just messing with their players for laughs.

[Blayze]

Pretty much sums it all up. I don't get some of the decisions Blizz has been making lately, as apart from the really big mistakes there are also these smaller but equally baffling calls being made that lead me to believe they're either clueless or just messing with their players for laughs.

They're not clueless. Everything they do is to try and prop up raiding because it can't support itself.

[Lillyth]

He might not have the time to commit to doing normal every week. Then he'll never see the skin he's earned because it's gated behind that stupid questline.

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He doesn't want everything from the start he wants the rewards he's already earned without having to do some completely unrelated content first.

So he did the Nighthold already?

Wow, kudos! Guess you are playing an internal build.

[Polarthief]

Normal EN was a joke. My guild cleared it in the first raid week. Once you outgear the hell out of Nighthold, I'm sure you can get your quest done without any real effort.

Having purely appearance-based things locked behind harder difficulties was never a problem in WoD and earlier; why is it suddenly a problem now?

They're not clueless. Everything they do is to try and prop up raiding because it can't support itself.

With M+, World Quests, PvP giving gear equivalent to PvE and LFR giving lower iLvl raid gear again (like MoP/Dragon Soul), they've done nothing of the sort. They're actually pushing people OUT of Raiding. They also made Mythic Raid gear a lot less worth the effort since you can just get an 895 from LFR or a World Quest (it's unlikely, but you can).

[Coconut]

Having purely appearance-based things locked behind harder difficulties was never a problem in WoD and earlier; why is it suddenly a problem now?

Says that. ^

Has this in his signature:

WoD Q1: Lost 2.9M subs, the same amount Cata lost in 17 months.
WoD Q2: Lost another 1.5M, despite a patch and flight being revived.

Comedy gold.

[Snackwiches]

Normal EN was a joke. My guild cleared it in the first raid week. Once you outgear the hell out of Nighthold, I'm sure you can get your quest done without any real effort.

Having purely appearance-based things locked behind harder difficulties was never a problem in WoD and earlier; why is it suddenly a problem now?



With M+, World Quests, PvP giving gear equivalent to PvE and LFR giving lower iLvl raid gear again (like MoP/Dragon Soul), they've done nothing of the sort. They're actually pushing people OUT of Raiding. They also made Mythic Raid gear a lot less worth the effort since you can just get an 895 from LFR or a World Quest (it's unlikely, but you can).

For the exact same reasons this type of complaint has existed since BC; mail me rewards or I will fall onto the floor and throw a fucking hissy fit

Does anyone think that any of the people yelling "entitled! work for it! challenge!" in this thread will ever beat a level 15 mythic+, or complete Glory of the Legion Hero before they ding level 120?

I know I probably won't, I don't play that hard. But I sure as shit wouldn't get mad at some special rewards just for those who did. In general there's nothing wrong with various rewards for various content.

If this bugs you so bad: quit the game. Leave.

[Krille]

So you are so filled with hate against that mentality that you see it everywhere and you feel a need to point it out and lash out even when it's not really what people are saying. Maybe you should take a step back and deal with your own attitude

I see what you are talking about, and I respect and agree with your view when that it is the case. But even when we're talking about time investment alone, sometimes the arguments that "the wait is too long" or "the grind is too hard" or "this content should be accessible to me" are justified, or at least entirely reasonable, and the people who make them aren't ADD kids.

If all you do is look for the "want it now" mentality in every complaint, and zero in on it, you will be wrong most of the time, and you will come off as hateful and aggressive, certainly not sober and mature.

I'm done trying to reason with this type of person that expects everything to be delivered to their front door. I have tried, and all i got from it was that most of them think they've got reason to be special or treated differently. Like someone owe them something in the game. It's not only whine and bitterness on these forums, but a big part of it is. And it's really tiresome when you'd want to discuss actual problems with the game.

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It's not about the storytelling, it's about them trying to make casuals into hardcores.
They tried it with Cataclysm to cover up the fact that there was fuck all endgame other than overtuned group content.

Why do you reckon we have Titanforging? It's to try and force casuals to become hardcore.
They know how the community works. They know that a higher iLevel available means a higher iLevel demanded.
Titanforging lets them increase the iLevel disparity between casuals and hardcores, which (a) keeps casuals out of the premade Group Finder until they cave and decide to become hardcore to try and meet the insane iLevel requirements demanded, and (b) satisfies the tryhards' incessant need for epeen.

I would say that the legendary system and titan/warforged system is great for casuals.