Details on Kaby Lake overclocking (7700k, 7600k)

[Granyala]

Power effiency matters for PC users as well. For those that need to pay their own Power bills.

Couldn't agree more.

Also: less power used = less heat = more silent system.

[Vash The Stampede]

Power effiency matters for PC users as well. For those that need to pay their own Power bills.

Not enough to make someone upgrade. It has to be faster, significantly faster. Skylake was a joke.

Now that AMD will be releasing Zen in 16Q4 (oem) and 17Q1 (consumer), it might make things interesting if they're able to achieve the performance they've been talking about and reintroduce some kind of competition which could make Intel pump the breaks on their pricing structure.

I'm pretty happy Kaby Lake will be on 1151 though.

It's gotten so bad that companies like Google started to collaborate with IBM and etc to bring Power8 to the market. They're trying to bring back PowerPC because Intel has no competition. Though this is mostly for server than consumer.

It's being crowdfunded.
http://www.extremetech.com/computing...or-ibms-power8

[Granyala]

I find it quite hilarious that people truly spin conspiracy theories about intel WILLINGLY producing chips that barely have any single threaded improvements.

Our silicon and their architecture are optimized so fiercely now that it's very, very hard to improve it further.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

I find it quite hilarious that people truly spin conspiracy theories about intel WILLINGLY producing chips that barely have any single threaded improvements.

Our silicon and their architecture are optimized so fiercely now that it's very, very hard to improve it further.

Weren't you in another thread essentially calling people stupid when they said overclocking provided performance boost?

[Vash The Stampede]

I find it quite hilarious that people truly spin conspiracy theories about intel WILLINGLY producing chips that barely have any single threaded improvements.

Our silicon and their architecture are optimized so fiercely now that it's very, very hard to improve it further.

At this point, you'd think i5's would get hyper threading or more cores. Won't do anything in games, but the more people that have more cores the more developers may have to develop for them.

[Sturmbringe]

Considering how very little improvement there was over Haswell with Skylake, what difference will Kaby Lake make? For the most part, Skylake was only a 3% increase over Haswell clock for clock. Power efficiency only matters to laptop owners, and even then I'd like better graphics from Intel like Iris Pro stuff.

Power effiency matters for PC users as well. For those that need to pay their own Power bills.

Posts like this one make me wonder if people who post here have a job?

I discovered my CPU consumes exactly 31.51 Watts per hour on average when idle, and about 67 Watts per hour on average when gaming.

1 ΚWh= 0.14002€ in Greece.

So, the PC is on abt 8 hours per day, idle (browsing, working with office) 7 hours per day and gaming 1 hour per day. That means my CPU consumes 7X31.51 Watts + 1X67 Watts per day, i.e. 287.57 Watts per day.

Per month, my CPU consumes 8.627 KWHr, that is to say the colossal sum of 1.20795 €, and per year it consumes 103.527 KWHr that is to say 14.42€.

If you find yourself struggling to pay for 14.42€ worth of electricity per year, you are in serious trouble and should shut down the PC right now and go out and get a job.

TBH, when it comes to power consumption from CPU's it doesn't matter if you own a Motorolla 68000, an Intel 80286, a Pentium 4 Northwood or an Intel Skylake CPU because the consumption is insignificant for all intents and purposes.

[Granyala]

At this point, you'd think i5's would get hyper threading or more cores. Won't do anything in games, but the more people that have more cores the more developers may have to develop for them.

Naah, that would ruin Intels product segmentation and essentially make i7s useless.

Gotta milk them customers that think they'll need HT!

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Weren't you in another thread essentially calling people stupid when they said overclocking provided performance boost?

Never debated that OCing gave a performance boost. That's self evident in virtually every benchmark out there in the web.
What I do contend is: does Ocing give you a boost that you will actually notice w/o having FPS counters and benchmarks running. because that's what ultimately matters: whether stuff feels more fluid. After all, most of us gamers don't play games for that little number in the corner of our screens

If you followed the discussion, you will have read that this feeling based gain is indeed quite situational and depends a lot on the area of min/max FPS you generally stay within.

- - - Updated - - -

1 ΚWh= 0.14002€ in Greece.

1 KWh ≈ 0.37€ in Germany.

If I can save 38€ per year (calculated using your figure) why wouldn't I? Over the course of a typical 6 year lifespan of my system that would be 228€. Almost a new CPU.
Granted, I wouldn't upgrade my processor just because of that, but if it's a gain I get on the side, why not?

[Sturmbringe]

1 KWh ≈ 0.37€ in Germany.

If I can save 38€ per year (calculated using your figure) why wouldn't I? Over the course of a typical 6 year lifespan of my system that would be 228€. Almost a new CPU.
Granted, I wouldn't upgrade my processor just because of that, but if it's a gain I get on the side, why not?

Μy wife spends about that much every bloody Saturday. If 228 Euros constitute a saving worth of mention, then IMO one should get a better job or work regularly overtime.

If she read that, she would freak out completely. Imagine that she calls me Scroodge McDuck, can't imagine what she would call someone like you.

[Asmekiel]

Μy wife spends about that much every bloody Saturday. If 228 Euros constitute a saving worth of mention, then IMO one should get a better job or work regularly overtime.

If she read that, she would freak out completely. Imagine that she calls me Scroodge McDuck, can't imagine what she would call someone like you.

But your wife would have to stop shopping to save that. Granyala can do everything he was doing before and still spend less, means he can now spend that on extra clothes too.

[Granyala]

Μy wife spends about that much every bloody Saturday. If 228 Euros constitute a saving worth of mention, then IMO one should get a better job or work regularly overtime.

You are making no sense at all.

Why would I NEEDLESSLY spend money? Unless you have some astronomical income, money is a limited resource.
If I don't have to spend it on X I won't. I'll be happy if can spend it on Y instead.

Also: better power efficiency = cooler system = longer HW life, less noise on top of less operating costs.

[Artorius]

Considering how very little improvement there was over Haswell with Skylake, what difference will Kaby Lake make? For the most part, Skylake was only a 3% increase over Haswell clock for clock. Power efficiency only matters to laptop owners, and even then I'd like better graphics from Intel like Iris Pro stuff.

There are 2 CPU markets that matter, the mobile one and the server one. In both of them efficiency is important.

[Vash The Stampede]

1 KWh ≈ 0.37€ in Germany.

If I can save 38€ per year (calculated using your figure) why wouldn't I? Over the course of a typical 6 year lifespan of my system that would be 228€. Almost a new CPU.
Granted, I wouldn't upgrade my processor just because of that, but if it's a gain I get on the side, why not?

WTF is going on with Germany? Don't they have like half their power from renewable resources? How is it 0.37€?

Anyway, assuming your math is correct, lets say you do buy a new CPU just to save on power. Lets say you have a 2500K and you're sick and tired of its shit. A new 6600k is like 240€. On average a 6600k uses 50w less than 2500k, according to this and this.

The 6600k would pay for itself in a sense in 6 years, but you'd still have to pay for 70% of the power consumption as well. You do have the benefit of 40% faster IPC. Assuming nothing changes in Germany and the cost of electricity.

[Granyala]

I would not upgrade solely b/c of power benefits.
Don't forget, if I come from an Ivy system I'd need to buy a new board and new RAM (current ones use DDR4 IIRC).

I merely stated that having the improved efficiency on the side is actually something we should like because unless Intel gimps the chip to achieve it, it's a win-win.

BTW: I just re-read the article:
They OC'd the 7600K @ 1.51V and the chip didn't go past 48°C under load with an air cooler?
I find that one VERY hard to believe, considering a depicted stock-idle voltage of 0.7V.

[Thunderball]

WTF is going on with Germany? Don't they have like half their power from renewable resources? How is it 0.37€?

They do, and that's precisely why the electicity is so expensive.

I would not upgrade solely b/c of power benefits.
Don't forget, if I come from an Ivy system I'd need to buy a new board and new RAM (current ones use DDR4 IIRC).

I merely stated that having the improved efficiency on the side is actually something we should like because unless Intel gimps the chip to achieve it, it's a win-win.

BTW: I just re-read the article:
They OC'd the 7600K @ 1.51V and the chip didn't go past 48°C under load with an air cooler?
I find that one VERY hard to believe, considering a depicted stock-idle voltage of 0.7V.

Completely possible. Those pre-release samples likely have a sort of liquid metal under the lid, while the retail version will most likely still have that polymer that limited OC capability of their CPUs past Sandy Bridge. Nothing unusual about 0.7V idle voltage, clocks are reduced aswell.

[Shihao]

I think that power efficiency on desktop CPUs are less about consuming less power and more about producing less heat.

Less heat = less dissipation needed = less noise.

[Artorius]

I think that power efficiency on desktop CPUs are less about consuming less power and more about producing less heat.

Less heat = less dissipation needed = less noise.

No. It's because they aren't designing CPUs with the focus on desktop and they aren't exactly willing to run a parallel design just for it.

Intel could design CPUs as big as knights landing with 4 extremely large cores that would perform ridiculously well in single threaded applications. But this doesn't make any sense because scalability is better high more cores when it comes to optimized multi-threaded workloads AND you can scavenge faulty chips to make the lower products which is the most important factor.

Everything that they do in order to increase their efficiency in the mobile/server market will go to the desktop line as well because they're basically the same architecture. The chips may vary in size, but in essence they have the same design philosophy that goes down the entire line-up of products.

[Vash The Stampede]

There are 2 CPU markets that matter, the mobile one and the server one. In both of them efficiency is important.

But we deal with the ones that matter to us, and that's the consumer. Servers make sense cause they run 24/7 with a fairly high load, but consumers don't do this. The mobile market would make sense, if Apple and Samsung weren't so busy trying to 1up each other with faster SOC's with Higher DPI screens. The Note 6 has a 3500 mAh battery while the Note 7 has a 4000 mAh. Proof. The goal of a cell phone manufacturer isn't to make a phone that lasts a week on battery, but to make it not annoying enough that you need to recharge it every 5 hours. The more power efficient the SOC gets, the more play room they have for other goodies that consume power.

[Granyala]

But we deal with the ones that matter to us, and that's the consumer.

Basically what Artorius already stated: It makes no sense to have different designs here.

Don't forget that their CPUs are more than good enough for 99.5% of all consumers out there.

People like us, that love to push their systems to their limits (even if it's only for testing) are a super tiny minority. Most certainly not enough to warrant a different design.

[GhostDoctor]

Posts like this one make me wonder if people who post here have a job?

I discovered my CPU consumes exactly 31.51 Watts per hour on average when idle, and about 67 Watts per hour on average when gaming.

1 ΚWh= 0.14002€ in Greece.

So, the PC is on abt 8 hours per day, idle (browsing, working with office) 7 hours per day and gaming 1 hour per day. That means my CPU consumes 7X31.51 Watts + 1X67 Watts per day, i.e. 287.57 Watts per day.

Per month, my CPU consumes 8.627 KWHr, that is to say the colossal sum of 1.20795 €, and per year it consumes 103.527 KWHr that is to say 14.42€.

If you find yourself struggling to pay for 14.42€ worth of electricity per year, you are in serious trouble and should shut down the PC right now and go out and get a job.

TBH, when it comes to power consumption from CPU's it doesn't matter if you own a Motorolla 68000, an Intel 80286, a Pentium 4 Northwood or an Intel Skylake CPU because the consumption is insignificant for all intents and purposes.

Okay listen up PAL. Just because you're in greece doesn't mean shit in europe.

The cost of Power in Germany is almost tripple yours. First of all that. Second of all we have 3 pcs here. And no we don't struggle but we germans like EFFICENCY. Not like some Lazy country that costs the EU MILLIONS every fucking year because they were to lazy and stupid to manage their fucking country!

Μy wife spends about that much every bloody Saturday. If 228 Euros constitute a saving worth of mention, then IMO one should get a better job or work regularly overtime.

If she read that, she would freak out completely. Imagine that she calls me Scroodge McDuck, can't imagine what she would call someone like you.

What the hell is this stupidity? "If you can't efford things at their highest price you should just get a better job so you can pay more for your stuff."

Saving up money is like a bad religion for you guys in greece huh? I don't wonder why your country is failing so much like that.

If you think that saving money is a bad thing you guys really need to get your asses kicked out of EU.

WTF is going on with Germany? Don't they have like half their power from renewable resources? How is it 0.37€?

Anyway, assuming your math is correct, lets say you do buy a new CPU just to save on power. Lets say you have a 2500K and you're sick and tired of its shit. A new 6600k is like 240€. On average a 6600k uses 50w less than 2500k, according to this and this.

The 6600k would pay for itself in a sense in 6 years, but you'd still have to pay for 70% of the power consumption as well. You do have the benefit of 40% faster IPC. Assuming nothing changes in Germany and the cost of electricity.

You forget one thing. As i bought my i5 6600k last month i still had the i5 2500k. The Mainboard was getting old and had some failures. If you say, new stuff doesn't bring it for me than how should i do it than? Buy a old used mainboard for like 200+ Bucks on Ebay because the shops don't have the right mainboards anymore?

For my I5 6600 they will have it longer than 5 Years because the kaby lake will use the same Mainboards like the Skylake. So i will still get a new mainboard in 5+ Years.

Infracted - Mythbredor

[Vash The Stampede]

Okay listen up PAL. Just because you're in greece doesn't mean shit in europe.

The cost of Power in Germany is almost tripple yours. First of all that. Second of all we have 3 pcs here. And no we don't struggle but we germans like EFFICENCY. Not like some Lazy country that costs the EU MILLIONS every fucking year because they were to lazy and stupid to manage their fucking country!

Woah, where that come from? I actually thought about putting up solar panels to charge up some car batteries to power my PC. A few cheap Ebay panels with a few deep cycle car batteries and you have a PC that runs on free power. Except for rainy days and winter. Obviously not my idea, cause I've seen other people do this on YouTube. But this would divorce the need to worry about power efficiency while going green.

Considering Germany announced that all cars must be electric by 2030, I would be concerned about the cost of power.

Saving up money is like a bad religion for you guys in greece huh? I don't wonder why your country is failing so much like that.

Buying a new CPU just to save power costs wouldn't be an effective way to save money. If the PC isn't running all day under load, you're better off just waiting for a worthy upgrade. Maybe Zen?

You forget one thing. As i bought my i5 6600k last month i still had the i5 2500k. The Mainboard was getting old and had some failures. If you say, new stuff doesn't bring it for me than how should i do it than? Buy a old used mainboard for like 200+ Bucks on Ebay because the shops don't have the right mainboards anymore?

For my I5 6600 they will have it longer than 5 Years because the kaby lake will use the same Mainboards like the Skylake. So i will still get a new mainboard in 5+ Years.

It's different when you're dealing with broken parts. Have a friend who's HTPC had a bad motherboard and replaced it for a new board with a 6600K as well as ram. Before he had a AMD A10-6800K which wasn't worth a new motherboard, plus the ram was totally wrong. He's using the 6600K as is including Intel graphics. No graphics has been thrown in and he plans to play games.

When you're dealing with old hardware that's broken, it maybe more cost effective to upgrade than to keep it going. Has nothing to do with power efficiency costs.