PTR 7.1 Changes to fire.

[Woobels]

But all fire has is burst, the sustain is dogshit.

That's what he's saying, and I can actually confirm that most people I know who whine about Fire just complain about the burst window.

[Deleted]

Problem is: a mage on aoe can burst in 10sec more thanothers can in 60 sec. It has become insane. On trash groups in raids our mage can deal 8mio dps. Best non mage is at 1.5m....

The changes so far wont change this. Fire is still totally overpowered and highend mages with the right legendaries also dominate single target.

But there arent currently many good mages out there. But top mages are insanely overpowered.

Sad thing is: i can still beat most mages in m+ by far. But when i play with a top mage, i have no chance.

[Deleted]

You mean shadow priests, right? Or how about the new Demo Lock gods?



It had to happen. The burst was too noticeable and get enough people bitching for something that worked just fine. I work my ass off to get my fire numbers. Anyone who down plays that is naive.

Fire is very strong atm and anyone who disagrees probably hasn't seen a good and well geared fire mage in action. They are strong on just about every fight due to high burst, good aoe, high mobility and generally strong single target.

Also, as it has been mentioned spriest will most certainly get nerfed whenever blizzard changes the lvl 100 talent row for them, but that doesn't mean nothing else should be changed before that.

Not really sure where you're coming from with "the new demo lock gods" either - these are mythic 75th percentile class rankings over all boss fights:

[stevenho]

Linking overall chart is meaningless, because fire gains enormous amounts on meaningless Xavius passive tentaclea cleave.

Link every boss separately and you will see fire topping 0 bosses.

[Deleted]

Fire is very strong atm and anyone who disagrees probably hasn't seen a good and well geared fire mage in action. They are strong on just about every fight due to high burst, good aoe, high mobility and generally strong single target.

Also, as it has been mentioned spriest will most certainly get nerfed whenever blizzard changes the lvl 100 talent row for them, but that doesn't mean nothing else should be changed before that.

Not really sure where you're coming from with "the new demo lock gods" either - these are mythic 75th percentile class rankings over all boss fights:

ahahaha..'demo lock gods' indeed.. Fire is top 3 on all bosses except 2, meanwhile demo god spec is OKAY on some bosses and trash on most.

[Ellsian]

Fire is very strong atm and anyone who disagrees probably hasn't seen a good and well geared fire mage in action. They are strong on just about every fight due to high burst, good aoe, high mobility and generally strong single target.

Also, as it has been mentioned spriest will most certainly get nerfed whenever blizzard changes the lvl 100 talent row for them, but that doesn't mean nothing else should be changed before that.

Not really sure where you're coming from with "the new demo lock gods" either - these are mythic 75th percentile class rankings over all boss fights:

Well, that chart is a bit misleading and you're only linking Mythic content, which probably 90%+ of players do not play at the moment. Looking at Heroic and Normal content shows fire not nearly so high, and analyzing individual fights is even more revealing. Only firemages with pryoblast legendary are topping single target, and that should rightfully be looked at. The blanket pyro nerf to the non-legendary mages will be very harmful, and all of those mages in heroic and normal content will fall much further behind.

The upcoming nerf feels heavy handed and not nuanced with the data seen in logs, they should probably be looking at fixing those bracers first and then seeing where mages fall balance wise.

[Deleted]

Problem is: a mage on aoe can burst in 10sec more thanothers can in 60 sec. It has become insane. On trash groups in raids our mage can deal 8mio dps. Best non mage is at 1.5m....

The changes so far wont change this. Fire is still totally overpowered and highend mages with the right legendaries also dominate single target.

But there arent currently many good mages out there. But top mages are insanely overpowered.

Sad thing is: i can still beat most mages in m+ by far. But when i play with a top mage, i have no chance.

Fire is fine atm, it'll be fine after the nerf too though somewhat weak for single target.

The only thing that's broken about it atm is the legendary bracers that most people don't have access to. Those need to be toned down badly, but sadly they won't be it seems.

As for burst aoe, who really cares? Are you having trouble progresing EN trash or something? It's entirely meaningless.

[Deleted]

Fire is fine atm, it'll be fine after the nerf too though somewhat weak for single target.

The only thing that's broken about it atm is the legendary bracers that most people don't have access to. Those need to be toned down badly, but sadly they won't be it seems.

As for burst aoe, who really cares? Are you having trouble progresing EN trash or something? It's entirely meaningless.

No we wont be weak. It's a nerf, but we still wont be weak

[Deleted]

Linking overall chart is meaningless, because fire gains enormous amounts on meaningless Xavius passive tentaclea cleave.

Link every boss separately and you will see fire topping 0 bosses.

This^ 100.048374958733284572095732905739%

The difference between some of my xavius kills end damage has been like 0-60k just because of tentacle positioning.

That extra damage literally means absolutely fuck all in terms of contribution to killing the boss, i would even hazard that fire would be somewhere down near frost if it were not for ignite cleave for those without the sinew trinket (meaning you can pull some serious numbers by getting enrageds and saving a combust/sinew and padding the meters late on in the fight).

[Purpleisbetter]

I'm positive pretty much almost every spec can pad on Xavius.

Ah, then there are S.Priests.

[Marrilaife]

Ah, then there are S.Priests.

Not sure how fun it is to be a class that can top meters on single target but has to pay for more augment runes and food buffs than anyone else and is absolute dogshit on aoe.

[Doffen]

Problem is: a mage on aoe can burst in 10sec more thanothers can in 60 sec. It has become insane. On trash groups in raids our mage can deal 8mio dps. Best non mage is at 1.5m....
.

Our warriors, DHs and DK do like 22mill dps on trash in raids, I can do top 2.5 mill dps.
I dont ned a nerf.

See, I can also do imaginative numbers to make my arguments valid.

[TheRogue]

I thought they weren't going to nerf and bring another spec up but it almost feels like that's what they're doing...

Outlaw awaits you down at the bottom of the spec food chain We can be buds

[Krille]

Fire mages being sad about nerfs and pointing finger at other classes.. If any spec had it coming it was fire mages, with proper gear they're just too good. It's not a valid point to look at Shadow Priests and say "they're better" because that spec is completely broken and we all know that.

But there's no class in the game atm that can do the same damage as fire in all areas of the game, insane burst, both aoe and ST, very good cleave damage and very good sustained damage (with gear, so you don't get crit starved). We stack 3 fire mages in our raid because it's fine, they can do most things better than other classes. Mobility, burst, aoe dps, survivability, 2+ target cleave.

They nerfed DH much harder than some spell coefficient on 1 spell. And DHs were already slightly below good fire mages in those areas. You had it coming.

[Deleted]

We stack 3 fire mages in our raid because it's fine, they can do most things better than other classes.

Did the exact same last expac too and it annoyed the hell out of me, cannot stand class stacking. I still don't get why people think the sky is falling when a nerf goes up on the PTR though, there's nothing wrong with dropping down a few %, you're not going to be bottom of the pack because of it, if anything you'll be closer to middle of the pack. (unless you're just shit, then yeah...tough tits buddy) Get over it, it's not like they slapped nerfs left right and center on every other spell. That being said, it's the PTR, most of the time passive abilities aren't even working properly (CM/Molten Armor (not talking specifically now but it has happened)) and tuning could change every other day, gauging numbers off in-test content and crying like it's gospel isn't constructive in the slightest.

[Doffen]

Yeah I dont mind the little nerf. Flamestrike got a tiny buff, so they don't think our AoE is too good. Imo Living bomb would be a more reasonable nerf than pyro, on 10+ packs it destroys everything. Single target I will not take as hard of a hit since I personally don't have the pyro-legendarys, those who got them will notice it more.

While we are at it. Fire mage is not OP. Check bosses on each difficulty in EN, and we dont top many, at all.

The nerf is weird. I don't think its devastating at all, but its just weird. Why do they nerf it? And its not like they nerf our dps with 30-40k dps, its top 10k nerf. Is it cause of scaling? We are already on 60-65% crit, and it will be alot higher. Will all those crits make us OP in the future, thats why they nerf us? Would like to get a blue on that one.

[lockybalboa]

Our multi-target dps really needs a lil buff

[Marrilaife]

Did the exact same last expac too and it annoyed the hell out of me, cannot stand class stacking.

Yeah, everyone's going "hurr durr but spriests" but for some reason there's more than double the parses of fire mages in mythic (41,7k) than spriests (20,2k) AND mage has 2 more dps specs (that noone plays, 1k arcane parses and less than 200 frost) while priest doesn't. Fire mages and MM hunters are overused as f*** atm.

In healers there's more balance - druid, shaman and paladin have VERY similar number of parses, so none are being "stacked".

Tanks again, we can clearly see the FOTM pattern, warrior on top, then druid. In goes steadily less and less by 1,5-2k parses down per class until Monks who are extremely unpopular.

[Deleted]

There's a low chance it's an idiot that thinks he can make us switch to other specs for flavor like it used to happen in other expansions very obviously. That worked then but not anymore in Legion, unless they demolish a spec to an unusable state. We got legendaries now that only work on a spec, sometimes having a considerable contribution and because of them already equipped we can't just change spec or loot spec.

[Purpleisbetter]

Every spec that overperformed right now got axed.

Before us happend to Arms and Outlaw. MMs got hammered twice now. Spriest is going to be hit the hardest.

It is, what it is; the ultimate goal is to have one big "middle of the pack" and they are clearly working toward it.

The real issue is that Ion said that classes are balanced in 2 ways: with legendaries and without them.

I should be the one getting the pyro nerf, not another mage with 0 organges or prydaz neck or norgannon feet. That's objectively an issue. Unless; by NH, devs decided ppl will be able to aim for a specific legendary.