Man on PCP tries to kill cop, cop refuses to shoot for fear of public backlash, video

[Dextroden]

I guess you really are just yanking my goat if you still cant tell me and other posters apart.

Nice edit. Totally didn't see you use the forbidden to word.

Good to see you still lack the fortitude to defend your posts.

[Dextroden]

I don't feel like getting banned for a month eh.

And yeah im not going to stick up for another poster i do not agree with.

Except when you did pick up their argument.

And you didn't think about that until after you got caught. Good job on proving my point about not understanding punishment.

[Fasc]

It undermines a lot.

also you did the same to me. attempting to use my tone to undermine my argument.

Jesus can you at least call me out for something that you yourself are not doing???

Interesting. You are a libertarian, but you support the police?

No I attacked the words you used based upon their MEANING, not your tone. Keep up buttercup.

[Dextroden]

Except i didn't.

Please read, I am haemophiliac I do not shrug off concussions as minor injuries.

"And you didn't think about that until after you got caught. Good job on proving my point about not understanding punishment."

Thanks for illustrating my point that people can be punished for things they didn't commit.

Yes you did. Just like saying "You can't arrest me" doesn't mean shit, so does lying after you made a fool of yourself.

[JaimeGrant]

It's really sad that this escalated the way it did and resulted in that cop being beaten. She didn't shoot him because look at the backlash that has been happening lately. If she would have shot him, she herself would be in jail for being afraid for her life and taking those actions. She is not a bad cop IMO. She is a cop who is dealing with the harsh reality that fearing for your life as a police officer is not considered acceptable. This man could have killed her by bashing her head into the cement, but since he didn't have a gun - it would have been spun by the media for being just another unarmed black man killed by police.

[Toosdey]

What I see here:
a) Obviously assaulting a police officer, possibly not responsible for the head injury
b) Both the white cops seem embarrassingly untrained at handling someone? I've seen better combat skills amongst catty highschool girls.
c) Reliance on tasers (especially melee range!) is no replacement for martial arts, or a good nightstick, or a gun = stop using tasers

I'll agree the actions of the other 3+ cops in the area is negligent- if they suspected he was on any form of drugs at the moment that should have dog piled him in all honesty and cuffed him asap. Additionally I don't see the point where they could have justifiably shot him before they were tangled in a melee situation that would have made a firearm unreasonable. However...

a) I don't see how he isn't responsible for the cops injury. Regardless of the other cops actions, he was actively smashing her head in the pavement.
b) Cops are not trained in martial arts. Hence why tonfas (i.e. the 'classic night stick') are, and have been falling heavily out of favor in place of batons and taser in the US, both far easier to use. Martial arts training is a long drawn out process. I find it difficult to believe Canada or any European country has the vast majority of it's cops trained in martial arts.
c) Short sighted opinion. Tasers used by police are designed for both ranged and close quarters usage. The pistol shape doesn't make them ineffective in a melee situation. The prongs that fire out are an attachment on the front of the gun, nothing more. Furthermore, in the vast majority of cases tasers are far more effective than martial arts, tonfas or batons and don't cause nearly as much harm the the target in question. Physical force is more likely to cause significant temporary or long lasting to permanent damage, including death. Granted, in this situation the taser failed since he was high on PCP, but given that fact, physically beating the suspect with batons or martial arts wouldn't have done much short of breaking his bones. And quite frankly I'd put money on it you would be complaining if they did actually do that.

[Yvaelle]

a) I don't see how he isn't responsible for the cops injury. Regardless of the other cops actions, he was actively smashing her head in the pavement.

From the video I didn't see him actively smashing her head into the pavement, I'll watch it again - but you may also wish to do so as the OP was putting a pretty crazy spin on what he thinks he saw versus what I saw. Watch closely at what you actually see, versus what you read about what you saw - it's an interesting lesson in the faulty element of witness testimony after they've already heard the story - because our brains are fucking brilliant at overlaying memories with imagined images.

b) Cops are not trained in martial arts. Hence why tonfas (i.e. the 'classic night stick') are, and have been falling heavily out of favor in place of batons and taser in the US, both far easier to use. Martial arts training is a long drawn out process. I find it difficult to believe Canada or any European country has the vast majority of it's cops trained in martial arts.

Cops should be trained in martial arts. Tonfas and similar blunt weapons, combined with even rudimentary knowledge of arm locks and etc - are far more effective in melee than a taser or gun (if you aren't intending to kill someone/everyone in the melee). Canada does train its cops in martial arts. RCMP (national police) are required to pass a 100 hour martial arts training course (and it's rough from what I hear), and in addition virtually all of them also continue to practice an art after they complete their Cadet course (they also have physical fitness tests to get in, and must run 20km a week for their entire career). Most of the RCMP training course involves Jujitsu locks and grappling with Krav Maga and Boxing striking techniques. Metro police all have different styles - the Vancouver Police had their own variety of Judo which is ~all grappling techniques - they seem very happy with it. I believe the cops out East are more into Krav Maga and Defendo (a Canadian variant of Aikido).

I absolutely, fervently believe that not a single cop in the world should learn to pick up a gun, or fire a taser - before they learn how to dodge, block, and throw a punch (at the very least). If that isn't the case in the US, then I'd say that's the first problem in the US police system right there - you're defended by a bunch of George Zimmerman's who have to shoot 150lb kids - because they're too afraid of ending up in melee range.

c) Short sighted opinion. Tasers used by police are designed for both ranged and close quarters usage. The pistol shape doesn't make them ineffective in a melee situation. The prongs that fire out are an attachment on the front of the gun, nothing more. Furthermore, in the vast majority of cases tasers are far more effective than martial arts, tonfas or batons and don't cause nearly as much harm the the target in question. Physical force is more likely to cause significant temporary or long lasting to permanent damage, including death. Granted, in this situation the taser failed since he was high on PCP, but given that fact, physically beating the suspect with batons or martial arts wouldn't have done much short of breaking his bones. And quite frankly I'd put money on it you would be complaining if they did actually do that.

Tasers were issued to cops in Canada, and we went through like 4 fatal tasing's in the first 6 months or so (and like 3 of them were people who probably shouldn't have been tased to begin with, like a dad panicking in an airport because he couldn't find his son) - after that we decided they were useless and cops went back to hitting people with fists/sticks/guns. Tasers are horrendously unreliable weapons, they are not at all as you describe - they are not phasers from Star Trek.

The only time a Taser successfully incapacitates someone who is truly a threat, is if it hits near their nervous system and overloads their nerves - preventing them from controling their body (hint: this is also pretty consistent with when they are fatal). Apart from being close to the nervous system, a taser hurts like a motherfucker - but it doesn't actually incapacitate you - you can technically move just as much as you were before being tased. So if you actually want to kill someone and your adrenaline is up, you don't need PCP to move at full speed/power, if they say - hit you in the arm or leg or abdomen: PCP doesn't make you immune to electricity, it just makes you ignore pain. Further, if one of the electrodes say - gets stuck in a poofy jacket, or leather, or lands hits near a metal object in someones pocket, or one of the electrodes misses entirely - Tasers don't do shit. Don't get sucked in by the Taser commercials, or the jackasses tasering their non-aggressive friends in their backyards - they do hurt that much - but they do not incapacitate.

You know what stops a dude on PCP more than a taser? An arm lock - because if he resists - he'll dislocate/break his own arm - and even on PCP it's hard to throw a punch when your bones aren't connected. You know what else works? A nightstick/solid punch to the head - concussions still work on drugged people. Hell a broken nose is probably more effective than a taser, because now at least he'll be blinded by all the blood in his eyes.

And to correct your assumption about whether my liberalness makes me a bleeding heart too - it doesn't. If you're fighting a big dude on PCP and you need to break his arm, or knock him out, or shoot him - I'm okay with all those scenarios given procedure was followed. What I'm not okay with is literally getting into a hair-pulling contest with him like a pair of little girls, or that the other cops look dumbfounded about how/if they can help, or (alternately) shooting people and asking questions later: those are the scenarios of violence I'm less okay with. I am absolutely more supportive of cops who needed to concuss someone assaulting another cop, than I am with them using a taser.

[Polyxo]

From the video I didn't see him actively smashing her head into the pavement, I'll watch it again - but you may also wish to do so as the OP was putting a pretty crazy spin on what he thinks he saw versus what I saw. Watch closely at what you actually see, versus what you read about what you saw - it's an interesting lesson in the faulty element of witness testimony after they've already heard the story - because our brains are fucking brilliant at overlaying memories with imagined images.





Cops should be trained in martial arts. Tonfas and similar blunt weapons, combined with even rudimentary knowledge of arm locks and etc - are far more effective in melee than a taser or gun (if you aren't intending to kill someone/everyone in the melee). Canada does train its cops in martial arts. RCMP (national police) are required to pass a 100 hour martial arts training course (and it's rough from what I hear), and in addition virtually all of them also continue to practice an art after they complete their Cadet course (they also have physical fitness tests to get in, and must run 20km a week for their entire career). Most of the RCMP training course involves Jujitsu locks and grappling with Krav Maga and Boxing striking techniques. Metro police all have different styles - the Vancouver Police had their own variety of Judo which is ~all grappling techniques - they seem very happy with it. I believe the cops out East are more into Krav Maga and Defendo (a Canadian variant of Aikido).

I absolutely, fervently believe that not a single cop in the world should learn to pick up a gun, or fire a taser - before they learn how to dodge, block, and throw a punch (at the very least). If that isn't the case in the US, then I'd say that's the first problem in the US police system right there - you're defended by a bunch of George Zimmerman's who have to shoot 150lb kids - because they're too afraid of ending up in melee range.



Tasers were issued to cops in Canada, and we went through like 4 fatal tasing's in the first 6 months or so (and like 3 of them were people who probably shouldn't have been tased to begin with, like a dad panicking in an airport because he couldn't find his son) - after that we decided they were useless and cops went back to hitting people with fists/sticks/guns. Tasers are horrendously unreliable weapons, they are not at all as you describe - they are not phasers from Star Trek.

The only time a Taser successfully incapacitates someone who is truly a threat, is if it hits near their nervous system and overloads their nerves - preventing them from controling their body (hint: this is also pretty consistent with when they are fatal). Apart from being close to the nervous system, a taser hurts like a motherfucker - but it doesn't actually incapacitate you - you can technically move just as much as you were before being tased. So if you actually want to kill someone and your adrenaline is up, you don't need PCP to move at full speed/power, if they say - hit you in the arm or leg or abdomen: PCP doesn't make you immune to electricity, it just makes you ignore pain. Further, if one of the electrodes say - gets stuck in a poofy jacket, or leather, or lands hits near a metal object in someones pocket, or one of the electrodes misses entirely - Tasers don't do shit. Don't get sucked in by the Taser commercials, or the jackasses tasering their non-aggressive friends in their backyards - they do hurt that much - but they do not incapacitate.

You know what stops a dude on PCP more than a taser? An arm lock - because if he resists - he'll dislocate/break his own arm - and even on PCP it's hard to throw a punch when your bones aren't connected. You know what else works? A nightstick/solid punch to the head - concussions still work on drugged people. Hell a broken nose is probably more effective than a taser, because now at least he'll be blinded by all the blood in his eyes.

And to correct your assumption about whether my liberalness makes me a bleeding heart too - it doesn't. If you're fighting a big dude on PCP and you need to break his arm, or knock him out, or shoot him - I'm okay with all those scenarios given procedure was followed. What I'm not okay with is literally getting into a hair-pulling contest with him like a pair of little girls, or that the other cops look dumbfounded about how/if they can help, or (alternately) shooting people and asking questions later: those are the scenarios of violence I'm less okay with. I am absolutely more supportive of cops who needed to concuss someone assaulting another cop, than I am with them using a taser.

Cops are certain trained to handle hand to hand situations wherever I've worked with them. The point people should take from it is that you don't need to be Jon Jones to get control of a situation. You need to be the average Jr High School wrestler. That's the level of proficiency you need to stall out an altercation that's gotten out of control. It's that easy.

[Yvaelle]

Cops are certain trained to handle hand to hand situations wherever I've worked with them. The point people should take from it is that you don't need to be Jon Jones to get control of a situation. You need to be the average Jr High School wrestler. That's the level of proficiency you need to stall out an altercation that's gotten out of control. It's that easy.

Exactly yea. Plus the odds of being a badass decline significantly when you are outnumbered by even jr. high school wrestlers (and cops usually have a numbers advantage in situations like this).

Yea all the cops I've met have some martial training, from the video though it certainly doesn't look like those ones do.

[Xires]

And it's useless to point out that the officer could not have shot him before being beaten up.

Wrong! Once you tell someone to stand back and they come at you in a threatening manner you are WELL within your right to shoot.

- - - Updated - - -

I would of been shot dead for just walking toward the cop lol.. Must be nice to be privileged

Oh...stfu SJW.

- - - Updated - - -

The situation was resolved without any fatalities. This seems like it was the best case scenario for all involved. I think she's a hero and deserves a promotion.

A promotion for getting her ass beat? If she were there alone she would of been killed. Oh....Canada....that explains it.

[Polyxo]

Exactly yea. Plus the odds of being a badass decline significantly when you are outnumbered by even jr. high school wrestlers (and cops usually have a numbers advantage in situations like this).

Yea all the cops I've met have some martial training, from the video though it certainly doesn't look like those ones do.

Every cop I've taught has had some level of competency coming into my classes. They come in for both exercise and for a richer level of competency, as in more detail and more technical expertise than their training as cops gives them. None of them start from 0, however. And from the situation I saw in the video, the cops had no idea what they were doing, or froze. It's very easy to get control of a guy like that once you get control of hips or shoulders. That's incredibly easy when you have three people to do it.

[kail]

Man's arrested, nobody is dead: What's the problem?

[Deleted]

Man's arrested, nobody is dead: What's the problem?

There isn't one. Just another normal day in OT.

[namecraft]

mmo champions.. why so angry