Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Vineri]

*yawn* I'm not doing shit for you. You are the one making some bullshit claim that WoW has been abandoned. Go read some EULAs and educate yourself.

Do the work you say you are going to do then. There is no legal proof the person who clicked "ACCEPT" is the same person playing on a private server. Since the software is downloadable, there is also no proof the version being used is or is not even the same as a copy that may or may not have been purchased.

I don't expect some people to understand rational thought, but I hope they at least try. A version of a game no longer supported is considered Abandoned. Not by just myself, but by gamers as a whole. A game no longer purchasable in it's original state.

Warcraft RTS is considered abandoned. Starcraft is not, since it is still sold in pack bundles. Nobody complains either way, since these games can be played they were originally designed to be.

[Azgraal]

If Blizzard suddenly went insane and turned World of Warcraft into a Guild Wars 2 clone, there is literally nothing you could do about it legally so long as they gave people ample warning. As long as your account and character data is still in their servers, and they still fit the specifications of their own current advertisement material, they are in their right to do whatever they want. The game is theirs, not yours.

Legally they can even announce they're going to shutdown and kill WoW in 6 months and do it, thus bringing every contract with costumers to an end, and no one could ever host a WoW server within the law using the argument that "it's theirs but they're not using it so we use it instead".

[Kyanion]

Holy hell, that's one heck of a tight tinfoil hat.

Yeah he even ignores the fact that Blizzard sued and won against a Private Server years ago. But he can do his own fucking research with a tinfoil hat that jagged. I'm not cutting myself on it.

[Azgraal]

I don't expect some people to understand rational thought, but I hope they at least try. A version of a game no longer supported is considered Abandoned. Not by just myself, but by gamers as a whole. A game no longer purchasable in it's original state.

Nor could we expect the same standard of reason from someone so clouded by their own personal desires. Today's WoW is virtually the same as 1.0, product wise, in the eyes of the law. "Patches", that completely change the game or just correct some typo, are irrelevant as in WoW, as a game and service is still available to people who paid for it.

And you clearly have no real clue to what Abandonware really is...

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Yeah he even ignores the fact that Blizzard sued and won against a Private Server years ago. But he can do his own fucking research with a tinfoil hat that jagged. I'm not cutting myself on it.

Of course the burden of evidence wouldn't fall on him, how else could he maintain that silver tinted moral high ground?

[Vineri]

Yeah he even ignores the fact that Blizzard sued and won against a Private Server years ago. But he can do his own fucking research with a tinfoil hat that jagged. I'm not cutting myself on it.

Why not say 10 or 20. Same difference if you can't link it.

[Eleccybubb]

Here is a good question. What would you do when Naxx comes out as the final bit of content and you finish that, level an alt or two and get the best possible gear then what? You would be stuck in an infinite content loop and resetting it all would eventually have players just stop playing. I'm sorry but as much as I and other people want this that is a pretty damn good question. If people cannot handle a one year drought without leaving how will people handle the same content over and over?

[Azgraal]

Why not say 10 or 20. Same difference if you can't link it.

You link us proof that it is legal and fair use to privately emulate and provide a service that is still available by its owners and it is originaly paid for.

And before you spaz out, WoW is still available, fuck, the majority of people here play it daily. You can still go and buy a box of the original retail WoW. Its just not the patch version you want.

[Relapses]

Here is a good question. What would you do when Naxx comes out as the final bit of content and you finish that, level an alt or two and get the best possible gear then what? You would be stuck in an infinite content loop and resetting it all would eventually have players just stop playing. I'm sorry but as much as I and other people want this that is a pretty damn good question. If people cannot handle a one year drought without leaving how will people handle the same content over and over?

...just make it progressive!

^{Oh wait not everybody wants progressive oh no}

[Vineri]

Nor could we expect the same standard of reason from someone so clouded by their own personal desires. Today's WoW is virtually the same as 1.0, product wise, in the eyes of the law. "Patches", that completely change the game or just correct some typo, are irrelevant as in WoW, as a game and service is still available to people who paid for it.

If you think Legacy and retail are the same, shame on you. Do you really think fixing typo's is the big difference between the two?

There are more complex issues that are involved. A hundred paragraphs worth, or more. But I can boil it down to Roleplaying (RPG remember?), social interaction, character depth, and exploration. Top points really, there are many more.

[Kyanion]

Why not say 10 or 20. Same difference if you can't link it.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1...rver_Owner.php

There you go. 5 seconds of fucking google and there is a link against the Private Server they took to court. Now run along and play, the adults are busy having a discussion.

[Vineri]

You can still go and buy a box of the original retail WoW. Its just not the patch version you want.

It's not even close. Its wearing your Cubs hat to an Eagles game.

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http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1...rver_Owner.php

There you go. 5 seconds of fucking google and there is a link against the Private Server they took to court. Now run along and play, the adults are busy having a discussion.

Article was 2010, referencing an incident in 2009. Very dated, since private servers are more popular now than ever, apparently. Also Gamasuta is as reliable as CNN, as I recall, ie, not very.

[Azgraal]

It's not even close. Its wearing your Cubs hat to an Eagles game.

If you think Legacy and retail are the same, shame on you. Do you really think fixing typo's is the big difference between the two?

There are more complex issues that are involved. A hundred paragraphs worth, or more. But I can boil it down to Roleplaying (RPG remember?), social interaction, character depth, and exploration. Top points really, there are many more.

...and all of that is moot. It is still the same name on the product, it is still the same product, just with a couple updates added to it over the years, and thats what a court of law Cares about. If you thing the Game is worse now and/or lost some appeal or cool aspect is irrelevant, no matter hiw you try to spin it.

The law doesnt give two shits about your preference.

[Hrishi]

For what it's worth, my guild's forum suddenly got active again, cautiously hopeful. I'd love to raid 40-mans with them again!

I wonder how many other communities/guilds feel the same way.

[Kyanion]

Article was 2010, referencing an incident in 2009. Very dated, since private servers are more popular now than ever, apparently. Also Gamasuta is as reliable as CNN, as I recall, ie, not very.

Tough shit you got what you wanted. You want to delve into the case find your own links. I don't care how dated it is. It sets a legal precedence for Blizzard.

[Azgraal]

Oh and btw, from WoW's EULA:

By agreeing to the EULA, you promise not to "host, provide or develop matchmaking services for the Game or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard in any way, for any purpose, including without limitation unauthorized play over the internet, network play, or as part of content aggregation networks."

So, no matter if it was the player, the hosts, the server owners, the reverse engineers or the file emulators, someone broke the EULA, and so, the server is illegal. Regardless if the software version matches the currently offered by retail or not.

[Vineri]

...and all of that is moot. It is still the same name on the product, it is still the same product, just with a couple updates added to it over the years, and thats what a court of law Cares about. If you thing the Game is worse now and/or lost some appeal or cool aspect is irrelevant, no matter hiw you try to spin it.

The law doesnt give two shits about your preference.

It all comes back to Blizzard ending this discussion by releasing an Official Legacy server. Blizzard seems to be unable to reach overseas servers (unless a server is run by a former dev who wants to return to Blizzard), so the legal observations seem moot as well.

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Oh and btw, from WoW's EULA:

By agreeing to the EULA, you promise not to "host, provide or develop matchmaking services for the Game or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard in any way, for any purpose, including without limitation unauthorized play over the internet, network play, or as part of content aggregation networks."

So, no matter if it was the player, the hosts, the server owners, the reverse engineers or the file emulators, someone broke the EULA, and so, the server is illegal. Regardless if the software version matches the currently offered by retail or not.

All of which holds no legal weight, if it can't be clearly identified who clicked AGREE, or if the option was even available, as such with a modified version. The EULA appears when a new patch is applied in legit newly installed copies. If no patch ever is applied henceforth, there is no EULA to pop up .. for a very, very, very, very long time.

[Holtzmann]

Here's an example that hopefully everybody will be able to examine in a dispassionate light:

There is a rather popular MMO out there called World of Tanks. It's about, as you might expect, driving mostly World War II and early Cold War tanks around and shooting each other in 15 vs 15 arcade battles. When the game started out, it had no driving physics to speak of. Vehicles were glued to the ground at all times and all cliffs were bounded by invisible walls that kept tanks from falling off. At some point after its release, the developers decided to add proper physics to the game. That meant that tanks could go flying off ramps and break their tracks upon landing, take damage when falling off cliffs, and generally cause lots of physics-based mischief. The game was irrevocably (and rather massively) changed by the addition of physics, but no one can make the argument that the "original" World of Tanks has been abandoned. The version number has changed, and so did the game's features and gameplay, but it's still World of Tanks.

It's the same argument regarding World of Warcraft. The gameplay may have changed, but legally and developmentally it's still the same game. WoW's expansions are just that: expansions. Were they standalone games, then you could have an argument there. But you could always play World of Warcraft with the base game, you'd just be locked out of some of the expansion content.

[Azgraal]

It all comes back to Blizzard ending this discussion by releasing an Official Legacy server.

You're conveniently forgetting the other option, the one Blizzard seem to intend to do: ignore those who whine for an outdated version if their product.

It's not like their only solution is for them to cave in and give up on their property. That's just your silly pipe dream.

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All of which holds no legal weight, if it can't be clearly identified who clicked AGREE, or if the option was even available, as such with a modified version. The EULA appears when a new patch is applied in legit newly installed copies. If no patch ever is applied henceforth, there is no EULA to pop up .. for a very, very, very, very long time.

Thats not how ANY OF IT works.

[Tackhisis]

Legacy is not active, in any official capacity

I asked to name 10 non-trivial differences between "vanilla" and the actual game. So far no one has been able to. Those are the same product.

Also, you cannot install the game unless accepting the EULA.

[Vineri]

Here's an example that hopefully everybody will be able to examine in a dispassionate light:

There is a rather popular MMO out there called World of Tanks. It's about, as you might expect, driving mostly World War II and early Cold War tanks around and shooting each other in 15 vs 15 arcade battles. When the game started out, it had no driving physics to speak of. Vehicles were glued to the ground at all times and all cliffs were bounded by invisible walls that kept tanks from falling off. At some point after its release, the developers decided to add proper physics to the game. That meant that tanks could go flying off ramps and break their tracks upon landing, take damage when falling off cliffs, and generally cause lots of physics-based mischief. The game was irrevocably (and rather massively) changed by the addition of physics, but no one can make the argument that the "original" World of Tanks has been abandoned. The version number has changed, and so did the game's features and gameplay, but it's still World of Tanks.

It's the same argument regarding World of Warcraft. The gameplay may have changed, but legally and developmentally it's still the same game. WoW's expansions are just that: expansions. Were they standalone games, then you could have an argument there. But you could always play World of Warcraft with the base game, you'd just be locked out of some of the expansion content.

If World of Tanks was as popular as, say, Starcraft, and Blizzard changed the gameplay & maps of Starcraft .. then tried to prevent the original game from being played .. I bet someone would complain. The changes to WoT was the equivalent of adding a new AoE to not stand in. The changes in WoW were HUGE.