No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Thimagryn]

There are plenty of role players in the game who never use a mount, and even walk at the normal pace and not the auto-run. Immersion is the world around you, not the dragon you rode to get there.

A) difference is it's a choice, whereas the current situation is made mandatory for everyone.
B) Immersion is subjective to the player, not something that is equally appreciated by everyone.
C) Even players who never use a mount will use flight whistle and goblin gliders to navigate the world, breaking the 'immersion' argument.

[-Joker-]

Has no flying in 7.1 been confirmed? I've not been following it closely, though I assume that will be the case since there hasnt been any mention of it afaik+

Part 2 of Pathfinder is not mentioned or datamined from the PTR for 7.1, so at this point 7.2 or 7.3 is more likely. So at least next June, maybe next Sept.

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A) difference is it's a choice, whereas the current situation is made mandatory for everyone.
B) Immersion is subjective to the player, not something that is equally appreciated by everyone.
C) Even players who never use a mount will use flight whistle and goblin gliders to navigate the world, breaking the 'immersion' argument.

A) It is always mandatory to start without flight. Only difference now is, it is not available for gold at level cap. WoD set the precedent.
B) While immersion is subjective, it still pertains to your character and the world surrounding them.
C) Path of least resistance has ALWAYS been a thing. Blizz nows offers a way to explore the skies without having free reign at the start of the expac.

I understand your arguments perfectly, but the one basic thing everyone seems to be missing is: This is how the game is. Legion is following in WoD's footsteps, and if players disagree they need to vote with their wallets and find something else to do until flight is unlocked. Funny thing is, Blizz will unlock flight and the same people will still bitch about having to complete the meta to get flight. Blizz is damned by these few people either way, so why cater to them?

[Thimagryn]

Only difference now is, it is not available for gold at level cap. WoD set the precedent.

You do realize this 'only difference' is the reason this thread and discussion still exists, right? Not being available at level cap is a HUGE change.

B) While immersion is subjective, it still pertains to your character and the world surrounding them.

You literally contradicted yourself here. If immersion is subjective, then no, it doesn't pertain to your character or the world surrounding you. If I told you my idea of immersion was instanced content and not the open world, then you'd be completely wrong.

C) Path of least resistance has ALWAYS been a thing. Blizz nows offers a way to explore the skies without having free reign at the start of the expac.

Except it's not about exploring the skies. It's about being able to use a flight mount you've earned to obtain, at max level, the same time as most other expansions. This current change is not a path of least resistance, it's a path of resistance. There was never a need to enforce 'immersion' at max level. No one was asking for this.

[satimy]

Do you think more or less people traveled in real life before or after the existance of commercial airlines?

[Ordinator]

Do you think more or less people traveled in real life before or after the existance of commercial airlines?

Do you think that 's actually relevant to the conversation?

[TyrianFC]

Do you think that 's actually relevant to the conversation?

I think hes mocking Mafic. Its too stupid a comment to be genuine.

[rda]

Do you think that 's actually relevant to the conversation?

I believe it's completely relevant.

With flight available, people travel more (*and the reverse is true as well*). The general principle applies to WoW as much as to the real world.

[Ordinator]

I believe it's completely relevant.

With flight available, people travel more (*and the reverse is true as well*). The general principle applies to WoW as much as to the real world.

I'm not interested in real life air travel vs WoW flying. It's just a beyond stupid, completely irrelevant conversation that can't be applicable to this thread no matter how hard you try.

[Deleted]

Greetings and I have that sinking feeling as well that the devs are just as uncertain when flying returns in Legion as us players. But it has been said I am a tin foil hat wearer so I will lay that mini rant of mine to rest for now.

I am sitting it out and if they drag it out a long time I probably don't see a reason to return either. Waiting to see how this unfolds shows that this may have a happy ending or it ends up a dumpster fire fiasco like what happened in WoD. Only time will tell IMVHO.

Just my two cents as a mere peon in the grander scheme of things.

It's this 'waiting to see how this unfolds' that is getting to me.
We have part one of pathfinder. What will we have to do to get part two? If it has another rep grind in it, I'm out.
This is something that is bothering me with the game overall currently. For me it seems we actually get less content, and the few content there is: they are forcing us to do it over and over. You want flying: do all quests, expore all, get al reps to exhalted. You want profession recipes: do dungeons and mythics. Want a chance for your legendary to get on par with other legendary wearers: do wq's over and over and over.
Some may say: we are not forced to do it, nobody is forcing you. But if I don't do professions, in my case alchemy, I can't afford the potions/flasks for raiding. If I don't raid there is not much reason for me to log in anymore. If you don't get a legendary you are very behind others in your run that do have a legendary (talking about the good legendaries here), so wq's it is. Since flying is such a dealbreaker for me, I do have to do all this content they want me to do.
I already feel stupid for buying Legion seeing how they stay vague about flying again, but that blame is on me. Said I wouldn't buy Legion if no flying at release, followed by saying I would unsub if it wasn't in 7.1. I'll see what 7.1 brings, but if the flying achievement has another rep grind or some silly objective I'm out.

[bufferunderrun]

Oh rubbish. We cant have every single action/encounter in the game be saving the world and killing Archimonde+1. That would, ironically, make saving the world feel cheaper.

You need to stop being so stupidly melodramatic and accept that you're playing a game - some things require a little suspension of disbelief - and this is one of them.

Flying is another way to show the player power increasing in open world activity from levelling to end game, you start walking then get a slow mount, then get the fast one, then get a shitty slow flying one, then a fast one and ultimately according to our achievement in game the good looking iconic one.
The circle repeat in every xpack you start grounded then when you reach the cap you go and kill shitty mobs with a dragon, yes that is progression, area where you are not strong enough don't allow flying or have strong anti air defense like the domination patch hubs, isle of thunder, timeless island and so on.

I think what you want is something closer to WoD where you command followers to go do missions and don't have to "degrade" yourself by playing the game, or maybe an RTS would be more your style.

Nope the followers system don't let peoples feel their character progression, mob not scaling or just partially scaling, flying and killing mobs in ever increasing efficient way, putting raids on farm etc are all activity that show this progression. Rts have nothing to do.

While the idea of swooping in on a Dragon and having him toast the enemy is cool, it's not what the game is about at its core. In fact, Legion (aside from the grind) feels more like Vanilla flowing into TBC than any other expac. We're getting back to the roots, the basics of WoW. We've gotten fat and lazy in the air. Gone were the times when people had to use CC or get creative in the open world. Can I take on 6 mobs and win as a bear? Sure. As a cat? Not so much. I go from rushing in as a warrior to sneaking by as a rogue. Legion makes players think, and work for it. While flight may hold some level of enjoyment, people (if they were truly honest with themselves) are pissed because Blizz has delayed the lazy factor.

The game at it's core is about progressing an hero character from a low level newbie to a high level hero, flying is just an aspect of that increase and impact the open world, gearing up is another and impact the open world and the instanced one; look at that minute https://youtu.be/EYobGungtMQ?t=139you can see the player arriving on the battlefield.

[Deleted]

I do enjoy the game more without flying, honestly.
The fact that they've added "Flight Master's Whistle" should certainly be enough.

Now I have a valid reason to ride around on my Pinto all day long!

[Dhrizzle]

I believe it's completely relevant.

With flight available, people travel more (*and the reverse is true as well*). The general principle applies to WoW as much as to the real world.

Commercial flight would be the equivalent of flight-paths and taxis. People IRL don't complain that they need personal helicopters foregoing to work and the shops.

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Flying is another way to show the player power increasing in open world activity from levelling to end game, you start walking then get a slow mount, then get the fast one, then get a shitty slow flying one, then a fast one and ultimately according to our achievement in game the good looking iconic one.
The circle repeat in every xpack you start grounded then when you reach the cap you go and kill shitty mobs with a dragon, yes that is progression, area where you are not strong enough don't allow flying or have strong anti air defense like the domination patch hubs, isle of thunder, timeless island and so on.

Usually (in TBC, Cata and MoP) Blizzard start you on the ground, then let you fly, then groundnyou again for the end of expansion world content. Isn't it a smoother progression keep v you grounded for longer and Letti g you fly towards the end like in WoD and presumably Legion?

Nope the followers system don't let peoples feel their character progression, mob not scaling or just partially scaling, flying and killing mobs in ever increasing efficient way, putting raids on farm etc are all activity that show this progression. Rts have nothing to do.

I thought doing the dirty work was beneath you and degrading?

The game at it's core is about progressing an hero character from a low level newbie to a high level hero, flying is just an aspect of that increase and impact the open world, gearing up is another and impact the open world and the instanced one; look at that minute https://youtu.be/EYobGungtMQ?t=139you can see the player arriving on the battlefield.

Yes the game is about progressing your character, but each expansion hits a reset. With WoD and Legion Blizzard decided not to progress you to I-win button status as soon as you get to the level cap.

[bufferunderrun]

Usually (in TBC, Cata and MoP) Blizzard start you on the ground, then let you fly, then groundnyou again for the end of expansion world content. Isn't it a smoother progression keep v you grounded for longer and Letti g you fly towards the end like in WoD and presumably Legion?

no it's worse because when they eventually decide it's time to fly i wouldn't have any more reasons to use it having already done everything possible and i will probably already unsubbed by the time it come out.
Point is taken anyway next xpack i wouldn't give blizzard any money if at last a definitive date of flying release is out.

[Dhrizzle]

no it's worse because when they eventually decide it's time to fly i wouldn't have any more reasons to use it having already done everything possible and i will probably already unsubbed by the time it come out.
Point is taken anyway next xpack i wouldn't give blizzard any money if at last a definitive date of flying release is out.

Do you feel the same way about gear? Should players get the most powerful items in the first raid or for some gold when they first hit the level cap? There's no point in putting the best stuff in the last raid because by the time you have earned it there will be nothing left to use it on.

[Mehrunes]

Usually (in TBC, Cata and MoP) Blizzard start you on the ground, then let you fly, then groundnyou again for the end of expansion world content. Isn't it a smoother progression keep v you grounded for longer and Letti g you fly towards the end like in WoD and presumably Legion?

Pretty sure you could fly during leveling in Cata.

Yes the game is about progressing your character, but each expansion hits a reset. With WoD and Legion Blizzard decided not to progress you to I-win button status as soon as you get to the level cap.

I-win button? Are you under the impression avoiding mobs is hard on foot, or something? Or is it the slow speed of it that negates the supposed I-win aspect of it?

[Zalamander]

Do you feel the same way about gear? Should players get the most powerful items in the first raid or for some gold when they first hit the level cap? There's no point in putting the best stuff in the last raid because by the time you have earned it there will be nothing left to use it on.

Flying isn't gear, its a core function of this game. But funny that you say this considering its exactly what Legion has turned into. You can now get the best gear from doing a world quest right away after dinging 110. Never before has WoW given so good gear for so little work.

[Dhrizzle]

Pretty sure you could fly during leveling in Cata.

Correct, but Blizz still prevented flying in the later world content (Molten Front.)

I-win button? Are you under the impression avoiding mobs is hard on foot, or something? Or is it the slow speed of it that negates the supposed I-win aspect of it?

Not particularly but this thread is filled with people who are struggling with navigation and avoiding mobs. There are people who would say that raiding isn't hard, but that doesn't stop something like Martin Fury being an I-win button.

Flying isn't gear, its a core function of this game. But funny that you say this considering its exactly what Legion has turned into. You can now get the best gear from doing a world quest right away after dinging 110. Never before has WoW given so good gear for so little work.

If you look back at the post I was replying to you'd see I was replying to someone who likened flying to gear as they both progress player power.

BTW the world quests are highly dependent on RNG, just because you managed to get a full set of BiS gear straight away doesn't mean everyone does. I'm still at a stage where I'm getting upgrades from Mythic 5-mans and don't even have an epic belt yet.

[Deleted]

It comes with 7.2 or something?

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It comes with 7.2 or something?

[Lane]

I think what annoys me most is that the game's characters, story, and environment (you know, all that "immersion" stuff) don't support no flying. As an Archdruid, considered to be at the top of my class, I suddenly can no longer shift into a bird (and at least glide), but lesser druids can, in fact, they're being taught to fly at Sylvan Falls in Highmountain. This is aside from the gigantic tauren flying around on eagles throughout the entire zone while telling me it's a good day for flying as well as the flight master at Krasus putting me on random flying mounts I own.

I realized the MMOs I've played that don't have flying (aside from having a superior transit system via teleportation) also don't consistently (and illogically) taunt you with it. The NPCs don't fly either.

[rda]

It comes with 7.2 or something?

Maybe 7.2 will allow flying, maybe it will only allow to "progress towards getting flying", maybe it will have nothing regarding flying.

It is evident that (a) they want flying to be gone for as long as possible, and (b) they think Legion is not yet at the point where too many people are going to complain.

Not saying they are wrong, it's just important to understand the "why"s (particularly (a)).

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I think what annoys me most is that the game's characters, story, and environment (you know, all that "immersion" stuff) don't support no flying. As an Archdruid, considered to be at the top of my class, I suddenly can no longer shift into a bird (and at least glide), but lesser druids can, in fact, they're being taught to fly at Sylvan Falls in Highmountain. This is aside from the gigantic tauren flying around on eagles throughout the entire zone while telling me it's a good day for flying as well as the flight master at Krasus putting me on random flying mounts I own.

I know some will say that's repetition - but since I only maybe said it once in the thread already - what annoys me the most in no flying is lack of freedom. And I am not talking about freedom in some sense that's hard to touch, like freedom to choose bla bla bla, I am talking about the feeling of freedom from flying - in any direction, in the sky. When I was first hitting 70 in TBC and getting flying, it was big. Really, really big. Really rewarding. At least as rewarding as killing the Lich King after in WotLK, etc. And when such freedom is taken away from you and you have to cosplay an ant somewhere on the ground - *for an unspecified and long period of time, until Blizzard gods mercifully allow you to "earn" flying back (in reality: when they decide that they are running out of content and it is time to use the "reward" of giving flying back to keep people's attention for one or two more months)* - it really hurts.