Someone who's called a fascist actually knows the proper meaning of the word.

[veehro]

No, he is saying that when people do despicable things and get called a fascist their first response shouldn't be to define the word fascist.

It's like calling someone a pedophile and his first response is that it's technically hebephilia since the kid is 14 years old.

There are despicable things out there that do not fall under the fascist cathegory.

Also redifining fascism would mean that groups such as conservative islam , bell hooks string of feminism and other bad ideologies would get a free pass

[Al Gorefiend]

Fascist is the new neckbeard anti-authority buzzword. Having replaced Nazi mostly.

[Deleted]

The underlying problem, including with what you are saying, is the notion that in the United States the terms Black and White describe different categories within the same system of classification, but they don't. White describes a race; Black describes a race and an ethnicity. Within the category of the white race you have numerous ethnicities that we stereotype, largely without a problem. For example, even though the Italians and Irish have had substantial periods of oppression in the U.S., the existing stereotypes about them really aren't seen as harmful, and are a combination of positive and negative stereotypes.

Also, the stereotypes you are talking about in regards to white people as a race are ridiculously benign, as evidenced by your post where you juxtapose "white people can't dance" with "black people have lower IQs". If the negative stereotypes about black people were that benign, nobody would care. You are trying to compare light cultural memes to stereotypes that actually cause people hardship in life.

So drunken Irish isn't a negative or harmful stereotype? Or Italian mobsters isn't in anyway offensive? Then what about "all white people are racist" or "white privilege" or "only white people can be racist" i think those are very harmful stereotypes, just look at Endus little rant on how white people are losing privilege and all that nonsense, yet somehow this is not considered racist because whitepeople .

Saying that all white people have privilege is no less stereotyping as saying that all black people are criminals or that all Asian people are good at maths.

[Alydael]

https://youtu.be/mQJFouy-T90?t=5m8s
I caught this off the other thread and this was one of the few worthwhile points mentioned in it. It's also ironic that it comes from a party leader that that has policies which are socialist and nationalistic.

People on a different side of the political spectrum are making similar points.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/...ze-capitalism/




Is there a problem with the misrepresentation of the word ? Or is it something which has lost it's meaning or doesn't apply in modern times like the labels left and right wing?

There is a problem with words in general. You have to remember, the word does not equal what is represents, ever. A word is merely a textual representation of the actual thing. Which is why we have the saying: a rose by any other name is still a rose.

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So drunken Irish isn't a negative or harmful stereotype? Or Italian mobsters isn't in anyway offensive? Then what about "all white people are racist" or "white privilege" or "only white people can be racist" i think those are very harmful stereotypes, just look at Endus little rant on how white people are losing privilege and all that nonsense, yet somehow this is not considered racist because whitepeople .

Saying that all white people have privilege is no less stereotyping as saying that all black people are criminals or that all Asian people are good at maths.

The charge of racism is just some racial facist trying to keep you quiet. Don't listen to that "race bully." Say what you have to say, don't let them control you with their racial, pc nonsense. The only people falling for it is the press, the rest of us recognize it for what it is.

[NineSpine]

While fascism is often used as a pejorative against any ideology people don't like, you really can't escape certain aspects of it that are well defined and accepted within political science:

1. It has to be authoritarian.
2. It has to be nationalistic, usually fused with racism.
3. It has to be capitalistic.

This notion that feminism is fascist, or Islamic radicalism is fascist, or whatever else bad in the world is fascist, is really just a desperate attempt by those who support nationalistic, capitalistic authoritarianism to muddy the waters so that they don't have to accept a fairly apt description of themselves.

[Deleted]

There is a problem with words in general. You have to remember, the word does not equal what is represents, ever. A word is merely a textual representation of the actual thing. Which is why we have the saying: a rose by any other name is still a rose.

- - - Updated - - -



The charge of racism is just some racial facist trying to keep you quiet. Don't listen to that "race bully." Say what you have to say, don't let them control you with their racial, pc nonsense. The only people falling for it is the press, the rest of us recognize it for what it is.

The problem with this is that a big part of human preconception is that if you repeat something often enough people start to believe it, no matter how "not rational" it is. So if you have the media spouting this nonsense you get people like Endus defending it.

[Deleted]

It's not the media calling the BNP fascists.
It are political scientists and historians calling them fascists.

I know it was offtoppic what i said, but this just doesn't make any sense. At least, it doesn't have anything to do with what i said.

[NineSpine]

So drunken Irish isn't a negative or harmful stereotype? Or Italian mobsters isn't in anyway offensive? Then what about "all white people are racist" or "white privilege" or "only white people can be racist" i think those are very harmful stereotypes, just look at Endus little rant on how white people are losing privilege and all that nonsense, yet somehow this is not considered racist because whitepeople .

Saying that all white people have privilege is no less stereotyping as saying that all black people are criminals or that all Asian people are good at maths.

So much wrong here in so little space.

1. If you think Irish or Italian people are having their ability to function in society seriously threatened by the drunken Irish or Italian mobster stereotype, I think you are living in a fantasy world. It's ironic, because petty whining about such benign stereotypes is actually an amazing display of white privilege. The poor Italians have to grapple with The Sopranos stereotype, and you want to put that on the same level as black people being stereotyped as murderers, rapists, and thugs who are too stupid to be successful any other way but dealing drugs.

2. White privilege does not mean that all white people have it easier than all black people. It means that white people ON AVERAGE have it easier than black people, and the things that make it easier for them are privileges that are not as often afforded to certain other people. For example, black people are substantially more likely to go to an underfunded school, while white people are substantially more likely to go to a properly funded school. That means that white people are far more often the privilege of a good education.

[Deleted]

So much wrong here in so little space.

1. If you think Irish or Italian people are having their ability to function in society seriously threatened by the drunken Irish or Italian mobster stereotype, I think you are living in a fantasy world. It's ironic, because petty whining about such benign stereotypes is actually an amazing display of white privilege. The poor Italians have to grapple with The Sopranos stereotype, and you want to put that on the same level as black people being stereotyped as murderers, rapists, and thugs who are too stupid to be successful any other way but dealing drugs.

2. White privilege does not mean that all white people have it easier than all black people. It means that white people ON AVERAGE have it easier than black people, and the things that make it easier for them are privileges that are not as often afforded to certain other people. For example, black people are substantially more likely to go to an underfunded school, while white people are substantially more likely to go to a properly funded school. That means that white people are far more often the privilege of a good education.

1. If you really think that their ability to function is not diminished by things like these then you are even more racist then you think. And then you have the gull to call it white privilege!? You do realize that painting a group of people like they are the same is the freaking definition of a stereotype, you know this right...???

2. Right... And ON AVERAGE black people are more criminal and are generally more likely to be a tug then a white person. See, just because something is true doesn't mean that it is not a racist thing to say. Going to a properly funded school isn't a privilege for fuck sake, it is the fucking norm, or at least it should be. What you are doing is taking other problems and you paint them as if it is a privilege of white people, that is very racist of you.

[NineSpine]

1. If you really think that their ability to function is not diminished by things like these then you are even more racist then you think. And then you have the gull to call it white privilege!? You do realize that painting a group of people like they are the same is the freaking definition of a stereotype, you know this right...???

Provide evidence of the damaging effects of these stereotypes. Please do not bother to respond to me if you have no evidence. It will be an embarrassment and a deflection if you do not respond with evidence.

It IS white privilege to be able to be so dramatically concerned with such benign stereotypes. Black people don't have the luxury of worrying about this kind of minutia. Their stereotypes are community-destroying, life-destroying.

2. Right... And ON AVERAGE black people are more criminal and are generally more likely to be a tug then a white person. See, just because something is true doesn't mean that it is not a racist thing to say. Going to a properly funded school isn't a privilege for fuck sake, it is the fucking norm, or at least it should be. What you are doing is taking other problems and you paint them as if it is a privilege of white people, that is very racist of you.

It isn't racist to say that on average black people get convicted of crimes more often than white people. That's a fact.

You need to make up your mind. Going to a nice school can't both be something everyone deserves, but then those who don't get it aren't considered underprivileged. Do you know the definition of the word privilege: "a right or benefit that is given to some people and not to others". If you get to go to a nice school and I don't, you have a benefit that was given to you and not to me. This isn't complicated, but you are making it complicated because for some reason it seems to offend you deeply to just admit some people have it easier than others.

[TrumpIsPresident]

There, fixed that for you.

/facepalm

No, no, you broke it entirely.

[Deleted]

Provide evidence of the damaging effects of these stereotypes. Please do not bother to respond to me if you have no evidence. It will be an embarrassment and a deflection if you do not respond with evidence.

It IS white privilege to be able to be so dramatically concerned with such benign stereotypes. Black people don't have the luxury of worrying about this kind of minutia. Their stereotypes are community-destroying, life-destroying.

Right it is so benign to call someone a thief or a drunk, that doesn't reflect badly on you in any way
The only difference here is that these people took an effort to blend in with the rest of the people's..

It isn't racist to say that on average black people get convicted of crimes more often than white people. That's a fact.

You need to make up your mind. Going to a nice school can't both be something everyone deserves, but then those who don't get it aren't considered underprivileged. Do you know the definition of the word privilege: "a right or benefit that is given to some people and not to others". If you get to go to a nice school and I don't, you have a benefit that was given to you and not to me. This isn't complicated, but you are making it complicated because for some reason it seems to offend you deeply to just admit some people have it easier than others.

No but it is racist to say that all blacks are criminals, just as it racist to say that all white people are privileged. The fact that you can't see this makes you a racist person.

Yea, and there are black people on good schools, so its not a "white privilege" but rather a "people with money privilege"... This isn't about "white people" this is about rich people, you seem to be getting confused with this.

[NineSpine]

Right it is so benign to call someone a thief or a drunk, that doesn't reflect badly on you in any way
The only difference here is that these people took an effort to blend in with the rest of the people's..



No but it is racist to say that all blacks are criminals, just as it racist to say that all white people are privileged. The fact that you can't see this makes you a racist person.

Yea, and there are black people on good schools, so its not a "white privilege" but rather a "people with money privilege"... This isn't about "white people" this is about rich people, you seem to be getting confused with this.

I explicitly described that white privilege does not mean all white people are privileged. You have chosen to ignore this and repeat yourself. You are not an intellectually honest person interested in a conversation. Have a good day.

I asked you for evidence, and you refused to provide it. Have a good day.

[Deleted]

I explicitly described that white privilege does not mean all white people are privileged. You have chosen to ignore this and repeat yourself. You are not an intellectually honest person interested in a conversation. Have a good day.

I asked you for evidence, and you refused to provide it. Have a good day.

I need to repeat my self because you seem to think that white people are privileged, but they are not. Going to a decent school isn't for white people, but rather for people with money, you choose to ignore this.

You are not interested in a discussion, you are only interested to confirm your racist bias, that all black people are under privileged and all white people are privileged, even when i point out that this just is not the case you just go to repeat your mantra.

I'm sorry to have to burst your bubble, but you are the racist one here.

[veehro]

While fascism is often used as a pejorative against any ideology people don't like, you really can't escape certain aspects of it that are well defined and accepted within political science:

1. It has to be authoritarian.
2. It has to be nationalistic, usually fused with racism.
3. It has to be capitalistic.

This notion that feminism is fascist, or Islamic radicalism is fascist, or whatever else bad in the world is fascist, is really just a desperate attempt by those who support nationalistic, capitalistic authoritarianism to muddy the waters so that they don't have to accept a fairly apt description of themselves.

You're wrong. Fascism means a bundle of sticks held together. It is a collectivist ideology. It means having an in-group vs an out group. So lets take feminism for instance and here I will refer to the Bell Hooks type of feminism that advocates for women to stop doing whats good for them as the individual and instead focus on whats best for women as a whole.

1. It has to be authoritarian.

It absolutely is. The ideology passes down from academia to the students and then goes to random blogs and media outlets dictating what is curently acceptable and what is not.

So when you are a woman and a feminist who believes trans women are not actual women. You are imediately kicked out of the club.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/feminist-ju...speech-1522670

Or if you are a feminist that is a university profesor who does not believe in the wage gap, you are again shamed and have your wiki page vanadlized

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58arQIr882w


or if you are the actress who plays Penny in big bang theory who says she likes to cook for her husband and enjoys being a wife. She gets her twitter filled with curse words and obscenities.


This shows no dissent is ever allowed from the main dogma that is dictated from top down. Random feminists are not allowed to deviate or have any opinions of their own, or risk being thrown out of the movment, harassed and insulted.

The ideology tells people how to think, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable to speak and even in some cases how they should feel about issues

2. It has to be nationalistic, usually fused with racism.

No it does not. It only needs to have a in group of people that share the same characteristics.
In the case of feminism you have women, blacks, LGBT and minorities vs the straight white man that is the opresser.

As such any action done towards straight white men is seen justified.

Even the word racism and sexism is changed from a thing that used to mean hating some one based on arbitrary characteristics that he has no control of (color of skin, gender) To that of privilege+power. Where men have privilege (yes even the homeless men and the ones working in the mines and sewers) while women do not (yes merkel and hillary have no power or privilege)

So article such as this

http://www.dailywire.com/news/8386/f...-prestigiacomo

become acceptable and generate little main stream controversy.

While a similar article where you would say all refugees are rapists and should be put in prison would imediately spark public blacklash and uproar

3. It has to be capitalistic.

False. Fascists are against capitalism. Capitalism allows the invisible hand of the market to dictate what should be sold and what not.
Fascists hate things that contradict their ideology and try to regulate it.
If you want further proof just read a history book that compares Musolini's italy to stalins USSR
There was very little difference in the economy of italy and that of the USSR.

[Felya]

If anyone is actually interested in what fascism looks like, before Hitler was a name most people knew:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia

It will also give you the basis for what later defined Orwellian view.

Oh and the guy comparing it to feminists... other than being sensationalist, it doesn't say anything. You can do the same to a guy putting a up a sign 'no shoes, no shirt, no service' or swing it the other way to compare it to any cult leader. You are not making the distinction clearer, but in fact obfuscating it.

[veehro]

If anyone is actually interested in what fascism looks like, before Hitler was a name most people knew:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia

It will also give you the basis for what later defined Orwellian view.

Oh and the guy comparing it to feminists... other than being sensationalist, it doesn't say anything. You can do the same to a guy putting a up a sign 'no shoes, no shirt, no service' or swing it the other way to compare it to any cult leader. You are not making the distinction clearer, but in fact obfuscating it.

you can compare it with progresivism that is completly different then liberalism and more akin to cultural marxism. if you want to know more about cultural marxism you can use google scholar to see whats it about . There are over a thousand of academic papers written on the subject.

Long story short its the idea that the majority opresses minority privilege vs lack of privilege.

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No, not all black people are underprivileged and not all white people are privileged.
But overall the white people are privileged.
It's not that hard to understand.
No, he isn't. He is mentioning facts.

You are using collectivist ideology. You are assigning a characteristic to an arbitrary group. Then you judge individuals based on that characteristic.

Its the same like the germans did to the jews. Germans are poor and opressed people. Jews are rich wealthy people. Then they started making policy and legislation based on this observation

[NineSpine]

I need to repeat my self because you seem to think that white people are privileged, but they are not. Going to a decent school isn't for white people, but rather for people with money, you choose to ignore this.

You are not interested in a discussion, you are only interested to confirm your racist bias, that all black people are under privileged and all white people are privileged, even when i point out that this just is not the case you just go to repeat your mantra.

I'm sorry to have to burst your bubble, but you are the racist one here.

I will be happy to pick this conversation back up when you produce the evidence I asked for and stop using strawmen. I said white privilege doesn't mean all white people have it better than all black people, but you continue to repeat yourself. When you are done talking to people who aren't here, we can continue.

- - - Updated - - -

You're wrong. Fascism means a bundle of sticks held together. It is a collectivist ideology. It means having an in-group vs an out group. So lets take feminism for instance and here I will refer to the Bell Hooks type of feminism that advocates for women to stop doing whats good for them as the individual and instead focus on whats best for women as a whole.

1. It has to be authoritarian.

It absolutely is. The ideology passes down from academia to the students and then goes to random blogs and media outlets dictating what is curently acceptable and what is not.

So when you are a woman and a feminist who believes trans women are not actual women. You are imediately kicked out of the club.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/feminist-ju...speech-1522670

Or if you are a feminist that is a university profesor who does not believe in the wage gap, you are again shamed and have your wiki page vanadlized

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58arQIr882w


or if you are the actress who plays Penny in big bang theory who says she likes to cook for her husband and enjoys being a wife. She gets her twitter filled with curse words and obscenities.


This shows no dissent is ever allowed from the main dogma that is dictated from top down. Random feminists are not allowed to deviate or have any opinions of their own, or risk being thrown out of the movment, harassed and insulted.

The ideology tells people how to think, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable to speak and even in some cases how they should feel about issues

2. It has to be nationalistic, usually fused with racism.

No it does not. It only needs to have a in group of people that share the same characteristics.
In the case of feminism you have women, blacks, LGBT and minorities vs the straight white man that is the opresser.

As such any action done towards straight white men is seen justified.

Even the word racism and sexism is changed from a thing that used to mean hating some one based on arbitrary characteristics that he has no control of (color of skin, gender) To that of privilege+power. Where men have privilege (yes even the homeless men and the ones working in the mines and sewers) while women do not (yes merkel and hillary have no power or privilege)

So article such as this

http://www.dailywire.com/news/8386/f...-prestigiacomo

become acceptable and generate little main stream controversy.

While a similar article where you would say all refugees are rapists and should be put in prison would imediately spark public blacklash and uproar



False. Fascists are against capitalism. Capitalism allows the invisible hand of the market to dictate what should be sold and what not.
Fascists hate things that contradict their ideology and try to regulate it.
If you want further proof just read a history book that compares Musolini's italy to stalins USSR
There was very little difference in the economy of italy and that of the USSR.

You can talk yourself blue in the face trying to twist reality to fit your predetermined ideology, but that won't change the definitions of things. Fascism means an authoritarian, nationalistic, capitalistic political ideology. That is all it means. That is how it is defined. This was settled in political science decades ago. You are just making things up and trying to redefine decades of political science on a forum. You don't get to unilaterally redefine things because they are inconvenient for you. You need to put down your keyboard, pick up a book, and stop.

[Stormdash]

https://youtu.be/mQJFouy-T90?t=5m8s
I caught this off the other thread and this was one of the few worthwhile points mentioned in it. It's also ironic that it comes from a party leader that that has policies which are socialist and nationalistic.

People on a different side of the political spectrum are making similar points.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/...ze-capitalism/




Is there a problem with the misrepresentation of the word ? Or is it something which has lost it's meaning or doesn't apply in modern times like the labels left and right wing?

Modern education has devolved the concept into being a label for "politicians I think are mean".

[veehro]

I will be happy to pick this conversation back up when you produce the evidence I asked for and stop using strawmen. I said white privilege doesn't mean all white people have it better than all black people, but you continue to repeat yourself. When you are done talking to people who aren't here, we can continue.

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You can talk yourself blue in the face trying to twist reality to fit your predetermined ideology, but that won't change the definitions of things. Fascism means an authoritarian, nationalistic, capitalistic political ideology. That is all it means. That is how it is defined. This was settled in political science decades ago. You are just making things up and trying to redefine decades of political science on a forum. You don't get to unilaterally redefine things because they are inconvenient for you. You need to put down your keyboard, pick up a book, and stop.

Why do you not discuss about Asian or Jewish privilege while you are at it?

Asian people outearn whites in america by huge margine while jewish people are overly represented in places of goverment media and power.

The only reason you don't apply this mentality to other groups is because you would observe just how racist and awful it sounds when you think like that.

I myself as a capitalist has no problem with jews having more privilege. But a person who seeks social justice should be infuriated by this prospect.