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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    The amount of people complaining about having to use LFG for forming Mythic groups is just baffling to me. Almost every argument boils down to:

    - I can't get accepted to a group and I refuse to create my own
    - I don't want to have to interact with people beyond clicking "Join Random Dungeon"

    Along with these two arguments these people will come up with any tiny excuse as to why they just can't do it.

    They all want Blizzard to magically somehow correct their anxiety behavioral problems / disorders (whether real or conjured up) through some sort of video game programming.

    Before I joined my current guild I was able to CREATE groups for regular Mythics as a friggin Ret DPS on average in under 10 minutes. I never once had a toxic group. No one left. No one freaked out over a single wipe. Not one instance of someone going rage crazy.

    This game has been dumbed down enough as is, with that said I personally don't have a problem for a LFG queue for Mythics. I just hate to see this game broken down even further for a bunch of people with real or perceived social disorders shaping the development of a mMorpg based on their own bizarre quirks.
    Completely agree. The types of people who wont take initiative for their own character progression are precisely the types blizzard (and most older wow players) do NOT want to group with in the first place. Fuck em. Let them bitch, until they (the baddies) actually add value to the game, they can continue to LFR and heroics. The more people actually take the plunge to do the mythic grind like we all did with heroics in tbc, the more skilled the overall playerbase will be, and in the long run that will benefit everyone involved. Faster queue times, faster clears, faster gearing, etc. It WILL pay off to put your grown up pants on and do what you gotta do. I'm skeptical, but hopeful this will happen sometime soon.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    I don't think you understood my point at all. I believe LFR/LFD is bad for long term community longevity. Also the ability to cross realm, faction chance, or change ones name for a pittance of a fee basically saw the rise of the truly toxic gamer assholes.

    Sadly, this is Blizzards fault by over creating servers and their unwillingness to bite the bullet to merge servers together because people would be angry if they had to change their character name. The whole cycle of Blizzard over the years has been bandaid fix after bandaid fix instead of taking a mouthful of shitty medicine one time and get it over with.
    I'll agree 100% on the name change aspect, but a self-policing playerbase was not, and never will be a strength of this MMO, as it has been for others in the past.

    As to the positive aspects of LFR / LFD, you can look at it from another angle perhaps. Servers themselves, aside from the broad differences that separate ones like pvp, rp-pve, etc, exist because of tech limitations, and even games that put forward things like mega-servers have their own set of issues when attempting to really put all players in the same locale. LFD was initially an answer to this, and cross realm was the second step... Arguably, the game still probably has too many realms (even during Wrath this game had boatloads of very low pop realms), but closing them would send the wrong signal to players.

  3. #203
    I distinctly remember in Vanilla when something as small as ninja looting could end your ability to progress that character. You might get away with it once or twice, but without the ability to rename your character, transfer off server, etc etc you were pretty much dead in the water outside of some nub/new guild low down on the totem pole. Now that is just one example. Dickheads were pretty much in same boat unless they guilded with like-minded dickwads.

    Now I am not saying vanilla was a superior game. I will vouch that community policing was there. At least from what I saw.

    Name changes, server transfers, faction changes. All of these are brilliant moves for a business company. You basically get to charge people to either A. Make a New Life, B. Transfer off a dead server because of their own oversights.

    Imagine that, getting your customers to pay YOU for your failures. lmao

    Now for a game community, I think these things are far more harmful than helpful.
    Last edited by TITAN308; 2016-10-23 at 03:29 AM.

  4. #204
    The Patient Rarespawn2012's Avatar
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    Really it comes down to a good percentage of the player base just being toxic. I am not happy that Blizzard is tossing pve content into normal raids as trying to find a dedicated group to raid with while working fulltime is not always easy and lfr is a convenience but I also rather have a dedicated base because there are players who are garbage levels of awful at this game.(I'm not top tier myself but I don't roll healer and then be complete shit at it nor do I roll dps and never take a moment to learn an optimal rotation). The social factor is lacking in the mdoern player base but I hate to say it, this is from making the game so casual friendly here players can lfr and lfg with such ease. I'm not saying eithe ris abd but it is a negative side effect to an otherwise beneficial feature.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    I don't think you understood my point at all. I believe LFR/LFD is bad for long term community longevity. Also the ability to cross realm, faction chance, or change ones name for a pittance of a fee basically saw the rise of the truly toxic gamer assholes.

    Sadly, this is Blizzards fault by over creating servers and their unwillingness to bite the bullet to merge servers together because people would be angry if they had to change their character name. The whole cycle of Blizzard over the years has been bandaid fix after bandaid fix instead of taking a mouthful of shitty medicine one time and get it over with.
    The long-term community longevity will exist if Blizzard keeps shifting content towards only hardcore or only organized play. It will just be a VERY SMALL community.

    This is all moot, anyway. It's not like these things are mutually exclusive. LFR has existed right along side Heroic and Mythic raiding for several expansions now, and the game hasn't imploded yet. Dungeons are no different. In fact, dungeons are in an even BETTER place than raiding due to Mythic+ being a self-correcting barrier.

    The idea that giving players access to content through matchmaking automatically corrupts it and results in nerfs is stupid. It might happen if Blizzard caves to demands for nerfs, but if that happens it's because enough people asked for nerfs that it was warranted.

  6. #206
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    I believe LFR/LFD is bad for long term community longevity.
    Yeah... People aren't going to run dungeons and raids without those tools if they're removed. They're just not going to run dungeons and raids then.

  7. #207
    I'mma just say I didn't realize how bad tanks/healers can be.

    My main is around 860 (prot pally tank)/ 2nd main is around 850 (prot warrior) now I usually have to tank mythics or form my own groups with 1 friend thats a DPS due to all the groups needing a tank or full. Our groups 95% of the time go smooth and rage free.

    However with my new lock I'm trying to gear up that is 835 I've been joining groups requiring 835+ (which is fine if you know how to play/interrupt) and all these groups have been terrible. I was in a reg mythic EoA with a 3man guild and they literally bailed on us and gave up at snake boss. .I was pretty upset so I messaged the guild leader that formed the group and was like "wth man why did you bail on us?" Their response was something like " it was a lot harder than the healer and tank were expecting so its better not to waste anymore of your time". I was upset because he was acting anti social when it was his group he formed so what did I have to do now I needed to form/find another group.

    So my innate tank leadership kicked in and I started another group with me as leader on my warlock and showed strats for each boss and we managed to clear it until we found out the last boss wasn't possible due to the DH we had doing 75k dps. After wiping last boss 3 times I told him please step it up and do at least 100k this time ( rest of group was around 150k+). We pulled, wiped, he was 77k. So I had to remove him from group, no hard feelings just business I told him before hand even the hunter in our group was like " well he didn't hit 100k..." indirectly telling me to stand on my point I said earlier so I did.

    Put us back in LFG and told them "at last boss can summon NOW" got a 852 rogue invited and summoned him right into the boss via lock portal. We killed it a lot easier and I got a new ring.


    Moral of the story, It's really hard for my 3rd alt ( dps class) to gear up now with all these pleb healer/tanks I find in the 835-840 range of mythic groups. I don't have a problem with them being 835 ilvl but not knowing to interrupt almost 99% of things you see casting, using defensives, staying near the healer, focusing targets down, this is common vanilla level stuff. The tank I was running with actually was like 851 but had never done a mythic somehow he said so he was brand new but he still managed to listen and do his best and we got through it. Even though he died a lot being a DK and all..

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    The amount of people complaining about having to use LFG for forming Mythic groups is just baffling to me. Almost every argument boils down to:

    - I can't get accepted to a group and I refuse to create my own
    - I don't want to have to interact with people beyond clicking "Join Random Dungeon"

    Along with these two arguments these people will come up with any tiny excuse as to why they just can't do it.

    They all want Blizzard to magically somehow correct their anxiety behavioral problems / disorders (whether real or conjured up) through some sort of video game programming.

    Before I joined my current guild I was able to CREATE groups for regular Mythics as a friggin Ret DPS on average in under 10 minutes. I never once had a toxic group. No one left. No one freaked out over a single wipe. Not one instance of someone going rage crazy.

    This game has been dumbed down enough as is, with that said I personally don't have a problem for a LFG queue for Mythics. I just hate to see this game broken down even further for a bunch of people with real or perceived social disorders shaping the development of a mMorpg based on their own bizarre quirks.
    I'd say it was an effective quirk that you would choose to take a selfie of your beard.
    Stupid looking beard, bro. It looks like you glued a pile shaved cat hair on your face after you dyed it boo-boo black.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    Cat's out of the bag, dude.

    LFR/LFD isn't going anywhere. Better off trying to properly stagger the rewards without forcing people to go into content they don't want to participate in.
    I think you're correct that LFR and LFD cannot be easily removed, which is why I previously advocated for a different WoW server providing a different experience where LFR/LFD is not there. It's still there on the old realms and people who prefer that can play that.

    The problems with having the same open world game but hardcore end-game with very high item levels are tremendously large. It's difficult for organized groups to expand because there are less people on their server interested in organizing, organized players will roflstomp over other players, these other players don't feel rewarded enough (LFR loot QQ, for example), open world content becomes far too easy for a large portion of the playerbase - and this is to the players who most seek a challenge.

    So no, I actually don't think it's too late to create a version of World of Warcraft without LFD/LFR. It just can't be done by simply yanking the system out of the game, though.
    Last edited by Ishayu; 2016-10-23 at 10:34 AM.

  10. #210
    if more dps made their own groups then there would just be a lot more partial groups waiting around doing nothing

    telling people to make their own group/raid doesn't solve the problem. the past several years is proof enough.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    if more dps made their own groups then there would just be a lot more partial groups waiting around doing nothing

    telling people to make their own group/raid doesn't solve the problem. the past several years is proof enough.
    Oh, but it does solve the problem.

    If you make your own group, whenever a tank searches in the group finder, your group will slowly rise to the top as other groups made before your own are filled. Eventually, a tank will seek to join you. This is very similar to how the regular dungeon finder queue system works at the end of the day.

    If you don't make your own group, you keep getting declined over and over again on groups and don't actually come any nearer to finding a group as time passes.

    The last time I made a group, I had to witness 47 DPS sign up to my group before I got the first tank. If these people had made a group instead, I might've gotten a tank a bit later, but they might've gotten a group before me.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Oh, but it does solve the problem.

    If you make your own group, whenever a tank searches in the group finder, your group will slowly rise to the top as other groups made before your own are filled. Eventually, a tank will seek to join you. This is very similar to how the regular dungeon finder queue system works at the end of the day.

    If you don't make your own group, you keep getting declined over and over again on groups and don't actually come any nearer to finding a group as time passes.

    The last time I made a group, I had to witness 47 DPS sign up to my group before I got the first tank. If these people had made a group instead, I might've gotten a tank a bit later, but they might've gotten a group before me.
    you're own account proves my point. if more dps made their own group you'd have even more partial groups waiting longer doing nothing.

    also, telling people to make groups does not work. they've been told for years and it's a bigger problem than ever.

    the community isn't going to solve this problem. blizzard has to.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Korbynn View Post
    I'd say it was an effective quirk that you would choose to take a selfie of your beard.
    Stupid looking beard, bro. It looks like you glued a pile shaved cat hair on your face after you dyed it boo-boo black.
    Triggered. lmao

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    you're own account proves my point. if more dps made their own group you'd have even more partial groups waiting longer doing nothing.

    also, telling people to make groups does not work. they've been told for years and it's a bigger problem than ever.

    the community isn't going to solve this problem. blizzard has to.
    It solves the problem to the same extent the LFD system ever can. The real problem is that there aren't enough tanks and healers, but LFD/LFR cannot and will not solve that.

    And what do you want Blizzard to do? Force people to play tank/healer?

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    It solves the problem to the same extent the LFD system ever can. The real problem is that there aren't enough tanks and healers, but LFD/LFR cannot and will not solve that.

    And what do you want Blizzard to do? Force people to play tank/healer?
    It's my fault. If only BrM monk wasn't a garbage spec I'd play more.
    Guys, guys, it's all on me.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Oh, but it does solve the problem.

    If you make your own group, whenever a tank searches in the group finder, your group will slowly rise to the top as other groups made before your own are filled. Eventually, a tank will seek to join you. This is very similar to how the regular dungeon finder queue system works at the end of the day.
    This is a fallacy. There is no guarantee that a tank will eventually sign up for YOUR group. They could simply continue to pass you by indefinitely, or make their own group.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Oh, but it does solve the problem.
    If you make your own group, whenever a tank searches in the group finder, your group will slowly rise to the top as other groups made before your own are filled. Eventually, a tank will seek to join you. This is very similar to how the regular dungeon finder queue system works at the end of the day.
    Does it? I though with LFG people can choose which group they would join. How does make your group rise to the top? I have not used LFG so I do not if indeed your group will rise and the next available tank/healer WILL choose your group.

    At a guess, I would imagine people would choose the groups that are

    1. Close to 100% success. This usually imply people with high level item.

    2. Have a tank/healer in the group to minimize wait time.

    If it works like the LFD, then why have two systems that do the same thing with the same method? Sounds silly.

  18. #218
    Deleted
    What do you mean, I called Blizzard when I was sick, lol

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    WoW's success came from catering to a very different kind of casual crowd than what you call the casual crowd.

    Being casual in those days didn't mean you needed to see all the content. It just meant you were happy about there being lots of content.

    Like someone else said, WoW's highest sub numbers, i.e. broadest appeal, was when LFR/LFD WERE NOT in the game.
    Partially true. You have to consider that during that time, not everyone were raiding because not everyone were at max level. So there were still contents to consume. They were happy to just happily leveling to max while others were raiding. But they will reach the max level at some point, which means they will start looking for content. Contents that are not suitable for them.

    We only know sub numbers. We do not turn over. For all we know, WoW has been losing subs but it has hidden by the newcomers during that time.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    This is a fallacy. There is no guarantee that a tank will eventually sign up for YOUR group. They could simply continue to pass you by indefinitely, or make their own group.
    No, you are invoking a fallacy by making a big issue of something extremely, EXTREMELY unlikely.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    Partially true. You have to consider that during that time, not everyone were raiding because not everyone were at max level. So there were still contents to consume. They were happy to just happily leveling to max while others were raiding. But they will reach the max level at some point, which means they will start looking for content. Contents that are not suitable for them.

    We only know sub numbers. We do not turn over. For all we know, WoW has been losing subs but it has hidden by the newcomers during that time.
    A good point - WoW's levelling game was much more substantial before 4.0, so people didn't get pushed into raiding if they played casually - they just never made it to max level and were perfectly happy with that.

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