Changing healer group: invested in disc but having doubts

[Leonora]

We are now halfway heroic raiding, having fun on the way. However, on my personal part as disc healer I am having less fun. With disc I feel pigeonholed into a supportive spec that is only viable when a) a lot of people get a lot of damage (and even then, others healers dont sit still) and b) we have 'main' healers able to tankheal and spotheal. Our healer team changes a little per evening so b) is not always the case.

When I need to tank/spotheal, that requires in the end to shadowmend a lot. Because via atonement/dps is clunky. By the time I plea/shield and start dps, another healer often has patched them up, and often tanks take too much damage for that approach. And on the Eye for example, I am too slow; two eye 'zaps' and someone is dead, so spam shadowmend is still better.
However, shadowmend means spending too much mana... catch 22/2.

The only place I really feel viable is in 5 men. Maybe I should start investing in holy? Or am I missing something?

(And to emphasize: we are not a mythic team. We are a stable heroics team, with varying attendants per raid.)

[Arukie]

Ursoc and Elerethe are two very good examples where discipline shines through. You know your raid will take a big hit from Vile Ambush during Feeding Time for example. You can do fantastic things as disc against that. Plea 5, Shield a 6th then Radiance the rest with PI, then Lights Wrath for example. Your job is not to constantly top people off as disc. I recommend you read the tldr disc guide here. It explains the basics about disc healing.

[Leonora]

I recommend you read the tldr disc guide here. It explains the basics about disc healing.

Thank you for your reply. But I recommend you read my post again. The dilemma is not what to do when there is huge aoe damage incoming. The dilemma is how to heal when I have a role as tank/spot healer. I find I have trouble there, which makes me think disc is not what our raid needs most atm. Ah well, I think I answered my own question, now to consider when I will go for holy.

[Sixnalia]

We're pretty great raid-wide healers, but it sounds like you're after a different healing role where you can easily focus an individual. Understandable.

I feel your guild shouldn't push you into a specific healing "mode" either. If they're assigning you to be a tank/spot healer, they may need to read the strengths and weaknesses of the class.

We're strong, and can perform that function by possibly using Grace and healing Penance. But it isn't as effective and we begin to lose out on our other aspects that make us strong.

Ultimately though, if you don't feel comfortable making it work, or if your guild wont let you function as intended, then Holy will be a more viable option. Then you could simply go Disc for the fights where you know it is better. Like Ursoc or Elerethe.

Best of luck to you!

[isuridedes]

I have never understood the argument players make when they pull out the Discipline pre-damage Atonement rotation. Here... start burning through 6+ GCD early so you can be ready to heal up that damage. Hope the other healers are picking up your slack while you are busy not healing.

if anything that rotation helps only to illustrate that while Disc can certainly put out numbers, the level of work needed to achieve that compared to other healers seems absurd.

Back to the OPs original question though- you're probably right to flip Holy in your situation, if atonement and shields aren't keeping pace and you're relying on shadow mend too heavily

[Arukie]

Thank you for your reply. But I recommend you read my post again. The dilemma is not what to do when there is huge aoe damage incoming. The dilemma is how to heal when I have a role as tank/spot healer. I find I have trouble there, which makes me think disc is not what our raid needs most atm. Ah well, I think I answered my own question, now to consider when I will go for holy.

My apologies, I didnt mean to come off like that. Guess I missed the part where your guild asked you to be a tankhealer. That's an absurd choice and you should tell them why.

[Snackwiches]

I have never understood the argument players make when they pull out the Discipline pre-damage Atonement rotation. Here... start burning through 6+ GCD early so you can be ready to heal up that damage. Hope the other healers are picking up your slack while you are busy not healing.

if anything that rotation helps only to illustrate that while Disc can certainly put out numbers, the level of work needed to achieve that compared to other healers seems absurd.

Back to the OPs original question though- you're probably right to flip Holy in your situation, if atonement and shields aren't keeping pace and you're relying on shadow mend too heavily

I don't mind challenge. Disc isn't challenge, it isn't complex, it's just pure clunk. You're fighting against the more dated systems of the game. It feels like it was designed in classic or BC and never maintained.

Won't waste any more time on it than I have.

[Bareturtle]

If you're being told to tank heal you're right, you should play Holy. Disc is fine, but you're trying to tank heal on a raid healer, of course it feels clunky.

[Leonora]

Thank you all for replying. One misunderstanding: I am not being *forced* to tankheal. But when classes/specs that more naturally heal tanks are not around, then its a role I need to fullfill... or we must cancel the raid. We are good in making work what we have in a raid, but using a disc spec as tankhealer is something I tried in and failed at, in the long run. So, painful, but seems I need to build up in holy now (0 traits yet ).

[Yunzi]

Disc is absolutely fine at spot/tank healing. I thought we'd gotten past the "Disc only burst AoE heals".

Take Grace. If the spot healing might include yourself, take Masochism, which is inexplicably ignored by the community despite being awesome at self-healing.

If the tanks/spot-targets are especially vulnerable or weak or it's cutting-edge progression, take Twist of Fate over Power Infusion.

If the tank/spot-healing is a major portion of the fight, consider your secondary stats as if you were healing a dungeon. Mastery becomes terrible.

[Jimjam38]

We are now halfway heroic raiding, having fun on the way. However, on my personal part as disc healer I am having less fun. With disc I feel pigeonholed into a supportive spec that is only viable when a) a lot of people get a lot of damage (and even then, others healers dont sit still) and b) we have 'main' healers able to tankheal and spotheal. Our healer team changes a little per evening so b) is not always the case.

When I need to tank/spotheal, that requires in the end to shadowmend a lot. Because via atonement/dps is clunky. By the time I plea/shield and start dps, another healer often has patched them up, and often tanks take too much damage for that approach. And on the Eye for example, I am too slow; two eye 'zaps' and someone is dead, so spam shadowmend is still better.
However, shadowmend means spending too much mana... catch 22/2.

The only place I really feel viable is in 5 men. Maybe I should start investing in holy? Or am I missing something?

(And to emphasize: we are not a mythic team. We are a stable heroics team, with varying attendants per raid.)

Disc is strong enough on all the EN fights other than Eye, and Xavius is a bit shitty too, but all the others have at least one big AoE damage you can prepare for. In heroic I top every fight as disc except Eye and Xavius if i don't get first dream.
But, I don't have to tank heal. And shouldn't either.
I'd say only Resto Shams and maybe MW monks have as hard or harder time Spot/tank healing. Restodruids, Hpriests and Hpals should always be doing it before you do.


Now, when you need to tank/spotheal, yes you'll need to use SM, and yes it's going to hurt your mana a bit, and yes disc cannot sustain tank healing SM spam for a full duration raid fight, it just won't happen. BUT since you find yourself in the unfortunate position of having to Tank/spot heal much more than is ideal for disc, I recommend checking out this guy on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpD...jB7E-TU3rUYMsg
He advocates the Mendstyle for disc, which is heavily debated, but the general consensus by those who have achieved top healer rankings as disc is that this style is ultimately inferior to Prepburst. But since you seem to be stuck in the position of having to Mendstyle anyway, I'd suggest you check it out.
The basic idea is to stack Haste>Crit (whereas Prepburst favours Haste>Mast) and make high use of Shadowmend, but make it more mana sustainable by spacing them out with smites, dots, penance etc. Obviously you still want to be using PWS on cooldown too.
You also swap to Grace instead of PtW if you find yourself frequently casting Shadowmend on targets who already have atonement - ie, tank healing.
Darkmoon Promises trinket will help with your mana sustainability, as will Algam's Seventh Spine, and you should aim for these trinkets. Take any other mana regen trinket as a 2nd best option. The Mythic+ Nagalfar Flare and/or Vial of Nightmare Fog trinkets would be a likely third best option.

If its all still too much or not working, then yes, I'd say you would be better off going holy if there really is no alternative except for you to tank heal.

[Leonora]

Thank you Atonement, I will look into it.

[Phyxiusx]

Personally i think what your guild is doing wrong, is doing these assignments. Its been a long time since we've made dedicated spotheal / tank heal roles. We always go with the flow that every healer is responsible for the entire raid. Naturally some classes like Holy palas and Holy priests will snipe the tanks more than others.

I also dont feel theres a single fight on mythic where the tanks would need dedicated healers, and especially not on heroic, where they barely take any damage.

[PosPosPos]

Personally i think what your guild is doing wrong, is doing these assignments. Its been a long time since we've made dedicated spotheal / tank heal roles. We always go with the flow that every healer is responsible for the entire raid. Naturally some classes like Holy palas and Holy priests will snipe the tanks more than others.

Which is why holy priests and paladins tend to double or triple other healers on tank healing, right?

Every healer has their own strengths and weaknesses, and giving each of them assignments to either spot/tank/raid heal is simply playing to their strengths.

I also dont feel theres a single fight on mythic where the tanks would need dedicated healers, and especially not on heroic, where they barely take any damage.

A single fight you say? How about Cenarius, Ursoc, Elerethe and Xavius....oh wait, I pretty much named more than half the bosses in the instance.

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But since you seem to be stuck in the position of having to Mendstyle anyway, I'd suggest you check it out.
The basic idea is to stack Haste>Crit (whereas Prepburst favours Haste>Mast) and make high use of Shadowmend,

Lolno, you are expected to forego as much haste as possible in favor of crit and versatility, which is very similar to what holy priests do. Only difference is that holy priest mastery actually affects their direct heals, but not for disc.

[Phyxiusx]

Which is why holy priests and paladins tend to double or triple other healers on tank healing, right?

Every healer has their own strengths and weaknesses, and giving each of them assignments to either spot/tank/raid heal is simply playing to their strengths.

A single fight you say? How about Cenarius, Ursoc, Elerethe and Xavius....oh wait, I pretty much named more than half the bosses in the instance.

If you have a well functioning healing team there shouldnt be any need to do these assignments, as some aspects just naturally fall to a certain class. Your healers should get to know eachother and playstyle, and be able to function as a unit, rather than have to give dedicated healing roles.

We havent had to dedicate anyone on Ursoc or Elerethe specificly no. We havent done Cenarius & Xavius yet on mythic.

[Deleted]

I don't mind challenge. Disc isn't challenge, it isn't complex, it's just pure clunk. You're fighting against the more dated systems of the game. It feels like it was designed in classic or BC and never maintained.

Won't waste any more time on it than I have.

I dunno, timing your massive burst AoE healing the second after the AoE damage goes out is something i find pretty fun. Seeing those healthbars just bounce back before anyone can realizes it makes you feel you did your work.

[Snackwiches]

I dunno, timing your massive burst AoE healing the second after the AoE damage goes out is something i find pretty fun. Seeing those healthbars just bounce back before anyone can realizes it makes you feel you did your work.

Problem is you can get that on other healers without the clunk.

I like the concept of Disc it's just that, IMO, it feels really hacked in. It doesn't feel right. Just IMO though, not trying to dictate what it should be for people who like it.

[chunx0r]

In general I really feel like people are short changing themselves by only leveling one artifact. My main is a druid and i have 3 golds in resto and feral and 2 golds in guardian and balance. If you really push for AP i bet you could have a 0 point holy artifact caught up to your disc in 1 week. My alt is a priest with 2 golds on disc and shadow, give yourself some room and level that holy.

[Jimjam38]

Problem is you can get that on other healers without the clunk.

I like the concept of Disc it's just that, IMO, it feels really hacked in. It doesn't feel right. Just IMO though, not trying to dictate what it should be for people who like it.

It'll definitely feel like that when you're first getting used to it, it does take some time. If you actually do like the idea of it, check out some videos of well played disc priests to give you a better idea of how their gameplay should look and flow, you might find it's not as clunky as you first thought.

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In general I really feel like people are short changing themselves by only leveling one artifact. My main is a druid and i have 3 golds in resto and feral and 2 golds in guardian and balance. If you really push for AP i bet you could have a 0 point holy artifact caught up to your disc in 1 week. My alt is a priest with 2 golds on disc and shadow, give yourself some room and level that holy.

I agree, especially given the situation the OP is in, he really would be better off spreading the AP over both, or all 3 even.

That being said, I haven't yet felt compelled to swap to holy for a single raid fight, and I've only played shadow a whole 3 times (in guild mythic+ runs when we had multiple heals and the other heals didn't have a decent OS).

Its not that I don't want to, I just haven't needed to. So I put nearly all my AP into disc.