Guild loyalty, why bother?

[Marrilaife]

An increasing amount of racist comments in guild chat and voice comms, belittling people for making mistakes (bearing in mind we are a casual heroic guild, we let mistakes slide and if there are problems us officers will whisper them in private after the raid and not make a meal of it in raids), arguing with officers in raids. 4 weeks of constant swapblasting when in the end nobody was laughing, was slowing us down and wasting people's money on consumables was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

It got to the point where it felt like he thought he could do anything just because he had been a member for so long and nothing was changing honestly after countless (and i mean countless) warnings. This is a guild where we have all become real friends and we don't just play WoW together and we want new players that join us to feel that sense of community aswell. When a new member joins and they get attacked by one person for no reason it just isn't acceptable.

I feel your pain, I also know of a guy who is a "loyal member" of a guild I mean been there long time, has good attendance to raids etc., but tends to make drama, blame others, call them "retards" and it creates bad atmosphere to the point some people leave to competing (similarly progressed) guilds, officers are telling him to stfu, kicked him out of the raid a couple of times (but not from guild), and generally keep him around only because well... loyal... will be there during all content droughts and whatnot.

But is it really worth it when he scared people off? People don't like drama and mudslinging in the raid. Finger pointing is the job of a raid leader not every member on their own.

Some people just can't behave. And yes, once in the past I've left a casual guild because they were making gay jokes, spamming "anal [something]" on raid chat, teabagging people, making fake orgasmic sounds on voice chat and generally I felt as if I was back in middle school while I'm 20 years too old for that crap.

Guild recruiting "mature players" I expect them to be polite and responsible, sadly for some "mature" means "overuse vulgar language" and that's about it.

In hardcore and semi-hardcore guilds I can understand if someone is doing top performance for his spec you might let it slide he has obnoxious personality. But in casual guilds, atmosphere is everything. Without people enjoying themselves in each others company such a guild will become nothing.

[Jewsco]

Hi, i'm actually an officer of the guild in question and also the raid leader that was absent from the raid. Made an account just to put out a short little explanation to put this to bed, since there are, as in this case generally 2 sides to every story.

I don't question their loyalty at all to the guild and i 100% admired it along with the many other loyal members in our guild, but we can't let certain behaviour just slide by just because someone is loyal to the guild or has been in the guild for such a long time.

An increasing amount of racist comments in guild chat and voice comms, belittling people for making mistakes (bearing in mind we are a casual heroic guild, we let mistakes slide and if there are problems us officers will whisper them in private after the raid and not make a meal of it in raids), arguing with officers in raids. 4 weeks of constant swapblasting when in the end nobody was laughing, was slowing us down and wasting people's money on consumables was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

It got to the point where it felt like he thought he could do anything just because he had been a member for so long and nothing was changing honestly after countless (and i mean countless) warnings. This is a guild where we have all become real friends and we don't just play WoW together and we want new players that join us to feel that sense of community aswell. When a new member joins and they get attacked by one person for no reason it just isn't acceptable.

Damn the op just got burned as the truth was finally told here

[FelPlague]

I've never understood this. I'm not disputing in any way someone's right to do such things, I just don't get it.

No one, in any of the several online games I play, knows diddly-squat of my IRL details. Nothing. I simply don't share over the internet.

well knowing somones age and location isent gunna give them shit all
also once youve talked to somone for 3 years you arnt exactly scared or feel they are untrustworthy

[kary]

I would love for that jerk to talk to me that way. The priest tried to take the high road and say it was all his bad. But that jerk wouldn't let that go and showed his ignorance of the class he was attempting to rip on. Why on earth would any raid team put up with that?

Results.
Coddling doesn't result in progress.

[FelPlague]

Hi, i'm actually an officer of the guild in question and also the raid leader that was absent from the raid. Made an account just to put out a short little explanation to put this to bed, since there are, as in this case generally 2 sides to every story.

I don't question their loyalty at all to the guild and i 100% admired it along with the many other loyal members in our guild, but we can't let certain behaviour just slide by just because someone is loyal to the guild or has been in the guild for such a long time.

An increasing amount of racist comments in guild chat and voice comms, belittling people for making mistakes (bearing in mind we are a casual heroic guild, we let mistakes slide and if there are problems us officers will whisper them in private after the raid and not make a meal of it in raids), arguing with officers in raids. 4 weeks of constant swapblasting when in the end nobody was laughing, was slowing us down and wasting people's money on consumables was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

It got to the point where it felt like he thought he could do anything just because he had been a member for so long and nothing was changing honestly after countless (and i mean countless) warnings. This is a guild where we have all become real friends and we don't just play WoW together and we want new players that join us to feel that sense of community aswell. When a new member joins and they get attacked by one person for no reason it just isn't acceptable.

you sir, are awesome can we know what guild it is so i may possibly send you some gold if your on my server? cause dude, legit bra, good on ya for coming here and telling us what happened!

btw i love how odvious he was fucking shitting on yall
"they were all laughing every time i swapblasted" really?
"they benched me from raid for swapblasting after 3 years" mhm.. no warning like "stop swap blasting?
"i had a fit" yeah...

so glad you came here to explain what really happened
i allmost think you should make this a short stroy and send it to preach for drama time :P "the fucking rasicst who tried to make out guild look bad on mmochamp"

[kary]

Neither does screaming and attacking someone. You don't really have to do either to progress.

Riggs led #1 US. I'm sure your hugs and puppy kisses guild didn't fare as well, ya?

[Eleccybubb]

Riggs led #1 US. I'm sure your hugs and puppy kisses guild didn't fare as well, ya?

And Method led number 1 world and EU. I didn't see any screaming from them. In fact most of the top guilds I've watched Blood Legion was the only one with that screaming pissant. So by that logic screaming only gets you world second where organisation and being calm gets you first.

[Deleted]

Guilds, just like pugs are always better when you aren't pushing people around. From what i hear, it was obvious they weren't pleased with your use of toys disrupting the raids and you completely failed to realise that and kept pushing until they got sick of it and said "screw it".

Look, people you meet online aren't your friends. They have a relationship of mutual interest. If you push it to the point where the pluses don't outweight the minuses, they will cut you out.

With that said... there are exceptions. You have to know how to spot them.

[Eleccybubb]

Yeah, and then they disbanded. I mean, if we want to point at results and say that screaming was the cause of those results, then here's where we ended up.

Now they don't even get Mythic down. 1/7 in EN . Also easily more than likely people despised his leadership style.

[Deleted]

Hi, i'm actually an officer of the guild in question and also the raid leader that was absent from the raid. Made an account just to put out a short little explanation to put this to bed, since there are, as in this case generally 2 sides to every story.

I don't question their loyalty at all to the guild and i 100% admired it along with the many other loyal members in our guild, but we can't let certain behaviour just slide by just because someone is loyal to the guild or has been in the guild for such a long time.

An increasing amount of racist comments in guild chat and voice comms, belittling people for making mistakes (bearing in mind we are a casual heroic guild, we let mistakes slide and if there are problems us officers will whisper them in private after the raid and not make a meal of it in raids), arguing with officers in raids. 4 weeks of constant swapblasting when in the end nobody was laughing, was slowing us down and wasting people's money on consumables was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

It got to the point where it felt like he thought he could do anything just because he had been a member for so long and nothing was changing honestly after countless (and i mean countless) warnings. This is a guild where we have all become real friends and we don't just play WoW together and we want new players that join us to feel that sense of community aswell. When a new member joins and they get attacked by one person for no reason it just isn't acceptable.

Pretty much what we all could see. It's tragic that he wasn't able to see it himself. All the best to you guys.

[deadman1]

I've never understood this. I'm not disputing in any way someone's right to do such things, I just don't get it.

No one, in any of the several online games I play, knows diddly-squat of my IRL details. Nothing. I simply don't share over the internet.

"TN near memphis"

youfuckinkiddinme?

[kary]

And Method led number 1 world and EU. I didn't see any screaming from them. In fact most of the top guilds I've watched Blood Legion was the only one with that screaming pissant. So by that logic screaming only gets you world second where organisation and being calm gets you first.

Method was behind BL at that point if memory serves, also Sco tends to rage from time to time, too.

Yeah, and then they disbanded. I mean, if we want to point at results and say that screaming was the cause of those results, then here's where we ended up.

Blood legion broke up in BRF due to the rigors of the world first race, not because of riggs' "tyranny"
There were a bunch of screenshots floating around during the time when they formed limit, but it had a lot to do with the amount of time they raided, very little to do with the personality of their raid leader.

But eh, people who weren't on illidan/progression oriented guilds wouldn't have known that. The current BL is basically a rp guild with F+F.

http://pastebin.com/HidT7Qpx

This isn't and hasn't been fun for me whatsoever this tier. We are so far from where we used to be. Progression racing was fun when we were actually competing for world firsts, not hoping to win the special olympics by beating Midwinter for US 1st. We are all playing like shit, myself included, because the motivation isn't there anymore, and it's obvious to everyone.

My family business had our extra employee leave us after she finished her degree, and we have not found a replacement for her yet. I've been covering some of her work, and this has been very tough throughout WoD. Waking up, working/raiding all day and then going to bed (at best) around 2am for the last 4 weeks would qualify as torture in most countries I'm pretty sure. Don't get me wrong, if we had killed the boss nine days ago like Method and been World First, or at least close to it, I wouldn't be feeling this way. Even when we lost to them in the past, we were at least close. Highmaul/BRF we aren't even in the same league anymore, and it's disappointing.

I cannot continue to put my life on the wayside any longer. I have been beyond miserable every night for awhile now. I don't even troll Rigg a few times a night anymore. Sadly, I've put on 22lbs since WoD came out. This is obviously not all on the game, but putting in basically a minimum of 40 hours a week since the middle of November is not helping the situation either. We have now raided 35 out of the last 37 days, and our results are embarrassing. Our results do not even remotely come close to justifying the amount of time we have and continue to put in. I've been talking to Rigg about it for the last week or so, and I've hit my limit. Between work and WoW I barely have any time for anything else. I've only played golf three times THIS YEAR. I don't have anytime to spend with my girlfriend, who I live with.

That said... Other than the move to 20m raiding, pretty much every other decision blizzard has made lately has been awful. Class tuning is still laughable for the most part. QA/UX team provide absolutely zero benefit to pre-raid testing. The amount of times we login to PTR to test bosses that are bugged beyond belief or retardedly overtuned (H&F hitting tanks for like 1mil) prove that the internal testing team did nothing more than pull the boss with godmode on to make sure mechanics are working. Even Kromog went live with 280mil hp, only to be nerfed by like 90mil, and then we got to watch them hilariously try to hotfix the fight on the fly, and fail miserably, over and over. And apparently they watched Method feign Sorka and bug the tornadoes and the fight where the boat never happened for an ENTIRE DAY before hotfixing it and making them use a different strategy. It's just laziness and/or carelessness by the devs. Their incompetence and complete MW dick-sucking has also disenfranchised me.

Obviously my rogue is available if needed for someone else to use. I just can't do this at this rate anymore. We are coming up on week FIVE of progression. It's more or less a joke at this point. Like Chris said in some post, bosses are supposed to be dead way before now. I just can't continue to force myself to login and be miserable for hours for even one more day. I'm sorry for the timing, but this has to happen for me. I now know exactly how Rigg felt in Highmaul. It sucks, but needs to be done.

I enjoy raiding with my friends I've made here in the guild over the years, and it's by far the best group of people I've ever gotten the chance to play other games with, and I hope that continues even after all of our WoW careers are over.

BL broke up due to poor results, not any personal conflicts.
But eh, say what you want though; you're going to anyway.

[Eleccybubb]

Method was behind BL at that point if memory serves, also Sco tends to rage from time to time, too.





Blood legion broke up in BRF due to the rigors of the world first race, not because of riggs' "tyranny"
There were a bunch of screenshots floating around during the time when they formed limit, but it had a lot to do with the amount of time they raided, very little to do with the personality of their raid leader.

But eh, people who weren't on illidan/progression oriented guilds wouldn't have known that. The current BL is basically a rp guild with F+F.

http://pastebin.com/HidT7Qpx



BL broke up due to poor results, not any personal conflicts.
But eh, say what you want though; you're going to anyway.

Sco rages rarely but nowhere near on the screamy bitch fits Rigg has.

[Leberman]

And Method led number 1 world and EU. I didn't see any screaming from them. In fact most of the top guilds I've watched Blood Legion was the only one with that screaming pissant. So by that logic screaming only gets you world second where organisation and being calm gets you first.

Every top guilds have these kind of problems. Like if you were watching either sco or treckie back in MoP during ToT, you could see those rage screaming that you are talking about it now. And beside these they've never showed these side of them to public like how close kuznam was to kick frag out of guild just because he was 3 hours late mid raid. (Again in stream/ subs trends news)

[Deleted]

Hi, i'm actually an officer of the guild in question and also the raid leader that was absent from the raid. Made an account just to put out a short little explanation to put this to bed, since there are, as in this case generally 2 sides to every story.

I don't question their loyalty at all to the guild and i 100% admired it along with the many other loyal members in our guild, but we can't let certain behaviour just slide by just because someone is loyal to the guild or has been in the guild for such a long time.

An increasing amount of racist comments in guild chat and voice comms, belittling people for making mistakes (bearing in mind we are a casual heroic guild, we let mistakes slide and if there are problems us officers will whisper them in private after the raid and not make a meal of it in raids), arguing with officers in raids. 4 weeks of constant swapblasting when in the end nobody was laughing, was slowing us down and wasting people's money on consumables was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

It got to the point where it felt like he thought he could do anything just because he had been a member for so long and nothing was changing honestly after countless (and i mean countless) warnings. This is a guild where we have all become real friends and we don't just play WoW together and we want new players that join us to feel that sense of community aswell. When a new member joins and they get attacked by one person for no reason it just isn't acceptable.

1. You weren't there.
2. I make the consumables you all use. So it's my money wasted.
3. A lot of people laughed. Hell even up front before we got there people were already weary. It was an extra dimension.
4. I didn't slow anyone down. It was normal. We cleared it in an hour. RC loot council took us longer. I used it in that waiting time.
5. Opening discord with ' my Niggahs' is not racist.
6. I never attacked anyone over petty mistakes. That's Zik. Whom you made officer.

[prwraith]

Well everyone here said it you got kicked for throwing a fit..

Edit: who even cares about being benched from the alt raid. Like talk about saved yourself an hour

[kary]

Oh, pre-emptive self-victimization, nice.

In any case, you started off with pretending that you could directly correlate screaming with good results. Now you want to disconnect screaming from any bad results "for reasons".

Essentially you seem like you want to cling to the old stereotype of the raging Onyxia raid leader because that's what you think a "hardcore" raid leader is.

Every progression guild has raging guild/raid leaders. It's a stressful position. See:

Every top guilds have these kind of problems. Like if you were watching either sco or treckie back in MoP during ToT, you could see those rage screaming that you are talking about it now. And beside these they've never showed these side of them to public like how close kuznam was to kick frag out of guild just because he was 3 hours late mid raid. (Again in stream/ subs trends news)

Lol and my guild has just as storied a history as BL. Our RL isn't as ragey, he just does the disappointed dad and makes you want to /suicide most of the time, but he does get pissed and rage from time to time. But rage is part of progression. Mythics progression is a very, very stressful thing.

[Deleted]

Guilds, just like pugs are always better when you aren't pushing people around. From what i hear, it was obvious they weren't pleased with your use of toys disrupting the raids and you completely failed to realise that and kept pushing until they got sick of it and said "screw it".

Look, people you meet online aren't your friends. They have a relationship of mutual interest. If you push it to the point where the pluses don't outweight the minuses, they will cut you out.

With that said... there are exceptions. You have to know how to spot them.

Basically this is whole truth. I realised it only after 5.5 years of "caring about guild members". Just because you care about them doesn't mean they feel the same. I was pushed to the point where I decided to leave guild in which I was for almost 5 years and only ONE person whispered me asking what happened. I still got this person on real ID cause he was the only person who cared. The next guild was even better.Over a night entire guild (it wasn't a big one) decided to quit WOW. I said I will take the guild and wait for them if they ever wish to return. I was very sad every time I was logging into the wow seeing people I loved to play with being offline for months. Then finally after 6 or 8 months they decided to come back. I was very happy. Yeahh....they came back, asked to give back the GM position which ofc I have done without questions asked and soon when we were about to start raiding they told me "they don't wish to raid with me anymore" basically saying I can GTFO. All my missing them, waiting on them hoping they will come back was worth jack all. Now I stopped caring. I find guild, if they provide me what I want from this game I stay, if not I move on without looking back or adding anybody to the real ID. There are no friends in wow, only acquaintances who share the same goal. As soon as your goals are different GG BB regardless how long you have been a member. If you are not up to their standards you are expandable and replacable.

[kamuimac]

I just got kicked from my guild. I was one of the first members ever to join. Stuck by them for 3 years or so. Raided with them, near 100% attendancy 2 days a week, performing in the 80% bracket, cleared my schedule to be able to. It was fun, we had good laughs, I was loyal, and expected that to be mutual.

Tonight we raided. I performed. And one of my things is the swapblaster. Makes the whole raid laugh. And as long as it doesnt slow the raid down, who cares right? I even had a free pass on normal raids to use it, as long as i didnt use it on progression raids. The substitute raidleader thought otherwise.

Decided to bench me because i used a swapblaster on a normal gearing raid (fuck, we even had alts in the group), after get permission from the main raidleader. So i threw a fit, wasnt gonna raid ever if they decided to bench me for something that stupid despite all the above, and i got guildkicked while being offline.

After 3 years of loyal attendancy, the time i spend with the guild and what i thought were friends i made, i get kicked over the use of a swapblaster.
Inb4: yeah thats the whole story.

Its funny though. What does this say about "online friends"? About guilds? Loyalty? I always thought they were real. Untill today. Now i understand my loyalty to people half way cross the ocean is worth fuckall, nomatter how nice and dandy you play together while it lasts. It feels weird, like i wasted the last 3 years of my life on them. Why bother with another guild?

Thoughts?

so you are one of those annoying "funny guys" who think that slowing down raid is "fun" and when others disagree with you , you think its ok to throw a hissy fit - you got yourself kicked maybe next time try behaving like adoult instead annoying people.

also clearly they were not ok with that and didnt see you as friend - i see it quite often people project their feeling on others and think that its true from other side - most time it isnt you were just one of many raiders in guild and got yourself kicked - you have ionly yourself to blame for it.

[Magicpot]

The Sub raid leader was looking to get rid of you, maybe to make room in the raid for one of his buddies. So he benched you for trivial shit hoping you'd throw a fit, which you did, and then he removed you.

Pretty standard stuff, as far as that goes.