Why do people say Legion is actually alt-UNfriendly?

[Deleted]

This criticism is particularly baffling. No one is complaining about having things to do. It would just be more alt friendly if the result of finishing those things was account wide. From this persoective even WoD, with little worth doing was alt unfriendly. I for one could not stomach round 2 of garrisonville.

Well ok, what shuold be in Legion account wide to make all less alt unfriendly? Only 2 things (and again you only read the first part of post it seems): 1) Artifact Power / Artifact Knowledge and 2) Reputation; And here we cuold argue how it shuold be done and so on.

As boring as it cuold be, you can't make account wide the class order experience, it wuold make 0 sense. In WoD it cuold have been a thing, because Garrison was not tied to a class story.

[Deleted]

Taking from your post it seems that the less effort you put into your alts the more alt-friendly the expansion is. Which seems a bit non-sensical... If you don't want to play (spend time & effort) on your alts, why are you bothering making alts at all...

You're absolutely right. When you've tried playing 12 classes, even more than 12 characters if you're playing two stables, you'll know what the hell I'm talking about. I don't want it to be effortless. I just want it to be doable and fun. Also, I fully admit it was hilariously easy at that point of WoD to gain experience, but to claim that stuff is more alt-friendly now is just ludicrous.

What else is being "alt-friendly", then? Taking ages to level and get gear isn't exactly something new. What in your mind makes Legion deserve the label of "alt-friendly"?

So for you, ideally once you have one 110 main all your alts should automatically be 110 right? I mean... leveling is grindy and boring, don't want to repeat that.

As I said, the leveling should be fun, and not a grind. And yeah, have you ever even done the same content more than a couple times? It does get a bit grindy and boring, something you'd know if you had ever run a full alt stable.

Also, all your main's reputations should be mirrored to your alts too. Noone wants to grind reputations on multiple alts!

You're goddamn right. Reputation grind on alts is about the most asinine and moronic thing in this game.

And ofcourse gear... all your alts should automagically have the same ilvl than your main. (And also be on the same stage of class order hall / campaign).

Again, it should be fun and not a dumbass grind like it is now, with gear drops from WQs being gated behind WQ reset times, and you basically getting 8 pieces of 840 (or one 855, the Illidan helmet), with the rest coming from world bosses (also time gated) and from warforged/titanforged items. So, as opposed to being able to grind a full set of honor gear so that you have at least something to defend yourself with when some asshole decides to gank you during some WQ.

So no, nothing like you said.

There... 1 main, 11 alts. Zero effort. Ideal? Would that be a game you would want to play?

No. But you'd know that if you read what I posted and didn't jump into conclusions.

Edit: You know what... I just had the best idea ever... why don't we remove alts altogether and give players free unlimited class changes! So you level once, play any class you want at max level with the same ilvl!

You seriously don't understand what it is to be an altoholic, do you.

[Deleted]

Aye I agree. Best way to have an alt in this xpac is to level some now and collect the AK and play them in the next tier 2bh.

You don't even need to level them now. The later you level them the faster AK research becomes. I imagine that in 2 months levels 1~10 AK will take hours if not minutes to complete, so that alts can "catch up" to mains who are already capped at 20AK.

[Deleted]

The actual problem is.

Classes right now are balanced at max traits unlocked.


so until you've them, you are underperforming on your character.

A shadow priest without his golden trait with stacking is stupidly useless.

a balance druid without 31 traits in his weapon is underperforming.


Yes - our mains are not that far yet, but honestly blizzard does not balance os at lvl 1 trait, but at lvl 54 trait.

people think "wow getting more traits, are improving my dps/tankiness" etc etc

when the truth is that you are underperforming less. than what you are used to.

[Deleted]

You seriously don't understand what it is to be an altoholic, do you.

I have 22 chars, 1 of each class. 12 for ally, 12 for horde. You tell me.

I also have enough brain function to know when to "STOP" and breathe. There are not enough hours in a day to do every single thing on every single character.

Maybe "altoholic" is another word for "dumb"? Or maybe you should just seek treatment... like alcoholics should. Dunno.

[Deleted]

You don't even need to level them now. The later you level them the faster AK research becomes. I imagine that in 2 months levels 1~10 AK will take hours if not minutes to complete

Sure. Unless, of course, it'll take a minimum of 24 hours to research one level regardless of how deep we are into the expansion.

so that alts can "catch up" to mains who are already capped at 20AK.

Artifact Knowledge caps at level 25.

I have 22 chars, 1 of each class. 12 for ally, 12 for horde. You tell me.

Well, first of all, 12+12=24. Secondly, of course you do, now that it suits you to claim that.

I also have enough brain function to know when to "STOP" and breathe. There are not enough hours in a day to do every single thing on every single character.

Maybe "altoholic" is another word for "dumb"? Or maybe you should just seek treatment... like alcoholics should. Dunno.

Oh, I see. You had nothing worthwhile to say and no way to defend your argument so you went straight into personal insults. Fine, off to the ignore list you go, then.

[Hyve]

Legion is alt-unfriendly in basically one main manner; Artifact.

However, Artifact Knowledge does make that easier to deal with. Albeit it's not as friendly as it could be, I don't think it's in a bad state. People haven't given it the time it needs to fully make itself a useful tool. People are fixated on the impact it has for their Main, rather than the fact that if someone started now they could eventually catch up.

Gearing is easy. Normal Mode Dungeons take you a few hours once you're 110, and then you're right into Heroics. I basically skipped Heroics on my Main and went almost straight into Mythics, and was more than geared enough for Normal Raids within a week. Getting to 110 is fast, getting the iLevel for Normal / Heroic Raids is fast, what takes time is the Artifact.

[Deleted]

Sure. Unless, of course, it'll take a minimum of 24 hours to research one level regardless of how deep we are into the expansion.



Artifact Knowledge caps at level 25.



Well, first of all, 12+12=24. Secondly, of course you do, now that it suits you to claim that.



Oh, I see. You had nothing worthwhile to say and no way to defend your argument so you went straight into personal insults. Fine, off to the ignore list you go, then.

Thanks for the corrections, although for the discussion 20 or 25 levels is irrelevant. Also thanks for pointing out my math mistake. Im still a bit used to the 11 alts we had back in WoD. And mixed up 11 from back then with the 12 now.

And I made no personal insult as I mentioned noone in my post, I was talking about the term "altoholic" because you hinted that I did not know what it meant. But if the shoe fits....

I stand by all my points already abundantly made clear in this thread:
- You can play as many alts as you want. Just keep an alt as an alt and not run multiple mains.
- Also, if you want to play the game then play the game, don't expect everything for free (that is called entitlement I hear).

[tratra]

It short of depends what people mean when they say alt.

E.g I've got so many things done on my main that I barely have things to do anymore apart from weekly resets and grinding very high lvl's of mythic+.

I could start a new character sort of like an alt, but when am playing a character I like to see its maximum potential. So AP makes it very hard since I'll have to grind for that.

Reputation is going on 7.1 so that should be fine.

Generally speaking a lot of people when they say alt they mean 2nd character, and in reality they don't exactly have a main, they just use whatever they fancy, and you need to play a lot in order to keep your characters on par, while in other expansions if you had a 2nd character and you already had achievments etc and you were well known around pugs or had a guild you could literally have a 2nd and 3rd char as good as your main without putting a lot of time to it.

This expansion is also a killer in rerolls... I'd love to reroll but thinking I'll have to grind all the AP and WQ's and mythic+ again just to get on spot with the gear makes me sick. (Well mythic+ is aright but generally hard to reroll atm).

[Ragedaug]

Well OK, what should be in Legion account wide to make all less alt unfriendly? Only 2 things (and again you only read the first part of post it seems): 1) Artifact Power / Artifact Knowledge and 2) Reputation; And here we could argue how it should be done and so on.

As boring as it could be, you can't make account wide the class order experience, it would make 0 sense. In WoD it could have been a thing, because Garrison was not tied to a class story.

I tend to agree with Reputation and Artifact Knowledge being account wide. My main reason for having more things being account wide instead of tied to a character is because I don't see my "characters" as doing the work. I see it as me doing the work. I understand we are technically playing an RPG, so there are limits, but I would still like most activities to reflect what I've done in game.

AP already has catch up mechanics built into it, so I'm more OK with grinding out AP on my alts, just wish I didn't have to grind out AK as well. Also wish there was less gating to unlock the 3rd Relic slot. Right now I'm not playing my 110 alt (other than farming some resources from time to time) until he can get at least AK level 10. That would make the AP gains meaningful after what I've done on my main.

[Queen of Hamsters]

My alts take half the time to level using ConsLegion and Autoturnin. @ Max level I reach the goals I set for alts within a matter of hours played. The Class campaign takes a while longer BUT, the /played doesn't ramp up all that much since a lot of the campaigns waiting comes from missions that take 8 hours each. I set the goal of 840 ilvl and Order Hall campaign finished with my alts. I'm done with 2, now working on the 3rd. It's not an alt-unfriendly expansion, it just requires a bit more than WoD did which is all fine and dandy.

It seems that people have this innate inability to look at the game and choose the route that is most efficient, setting goals for themselves that they feel cool with. It's always "I HAVE to do this!!"... If that line of thinking extends to doing everything in the game once they've done it with their main, perhaps they're playing the wrong sort of game?

[Deleted]

It depends on your expectation for what an "alt" is.

If you expect them to be a second main that you can use for raiding/PVP then yes, it's alt-unfriendly.
Otherwise you can login to them once in a while to continue researching AK, run couple order hall missions, and do several WQs a week if resources get too low.

Yeah, it seems most People that complain about the Alt-unfriendliness of Legion want a Roster of Mains, without having to put effort into it. Maybe this was possible in WoD, but Legion changed it.

And I would say for the better! What good is a herd full of Alt's you barely play. Having to choose 2,3 Toons gives them a lot more Character.

[ZenX]

Legion is not alt-unfriendly but rather hostile to the concept of having alts at the same power-level as your main (This is not necessarily a bad thing). The main reason is the progression path at the end-game is so twisted to the point that you virtually always have something to do. Although, those things might not turn out to be fun in the end (Still better than WoD's "Apexis" centric terrible endgame) with gating being rather executed in the worst way imaginable, it is content.

In my case, I want to level my alts for the story tied to the classes and their artifacts. For this, I need to go through the very same zone and some of the other cumbersome tasks. Add to that the fact of getting special skins which will not be come the next expansion and you are on a long path you never had been on before.

Artifact Knowledge is supposedly a catch-up mechanism which is oddly static and moronic way to stop people from unsubbing. The proper way of acquiring would have been tied to class-specific questlines being time-gated or be made available the moment you acquire Balance of Power. But instead you need to reach 110 on an alt going through 2 zones that you had on your main every-time you level one rather than blowing through Battle-grounds and Dungeons only visiting the zones tied to the class or profession.

As I have said this isn't something bad and I wouldn't want Blizzard to take it the wrong way and take us back to the desolate Apexis farming endgame of WoD.

[Deleted]

Just think at the previous xpacs... Your chars were not so much connected with each other.
Before wotlk there were not even heirlooms, and now we have the heirloom collection panel.
We have 1 free lvl 100 boost (plus chance to buy it).
You can now trade even currencies in your account.

Why do people always want more, when they already have been given of something?
What's the next step? Free 800 ilvl gear? Offline auto-lvling?

There is a proverb in my country which says:
I give you a hand, and you take my arm

Leveling has nothing to do with the complaint about Legion being Alt-Unfriendly. It's the professions, the fact you have to quest through every zone every time, just to unlock Worldquests (which they are fixing with 7.1. - thank god) and on and on.

God I am so happy, that 7.1 fixes the whole annoying Suramar Instances and WQ shit for Alts.

[Deleted]

The only thing affected by gated AP etc that you guys consider unfriendly is higher level mythic+ and HC EN and you shouldn't even think about doing those the first week you've hit 110.

I've leveled three alts, had no issue getting them to 835+ within two days, they're 840+ near the end of the week when you unlock your third relic slot., I have done normal EN full clears on my holy priest with 0 golden traits and my balance druid/holy paladin which had 1 gold trait all three had 12 or so traits and I did just fine. Unlocking world quests takes 30 minutes after hitting level 110 since Suramar rep to friendly is very quick.

[cuafpr]

for me the main thing is lack of passive resource generation. My alts are in desperate need of resources as i rarely have time to do the WQ's on them as well as my main. I'd like to see them add in a panel to assign 2-3 followers to resource gathering, of course they would be locked out of missions while doing so. This would allow alts to get some resources passively but yet slow down other mission related progress.

[Deleted]

Yeah, it seems most People that complain about the Alt-unfriendliness of Legion want a Roster of Mains, without having to put effort into it. Maybe this was possible in WoD, but Legion changed it.

And I would say for the better! What good is a herd full of Alt's you barely play. Having to choose 2,3 Toons gives them a lot more Character.

I don't expect my alts to be as good geared as my main, in fact I keep them at least a bit below my main on purpose, because there is a main character after all. But I like to be able to perform equally good in my favored part of content, and I guess that mythic0 will be the default level of challenge that I will aspire for all my characters (I ran mythic dungeons on some alts in WoD, one reason was collecting the heirloom trinkets for the different roles). I will not be able to get all alts to this level, but at least some of them will surely do.

Besides that, I would love to have at least one of each artifact and experience the story of the order hall campaigns (which requires playing at least 12 characters, with 3 I am already done). And I want to progress with professions, to have at least one maxed out professions with a good collection of patterns on at least one character. I am not sure how much time this all will take if I also put some time into my main.

[kamuimac]

So for you, ideally once you have one 110 main all your alts should automatically be 110 right? I mean... leveling is grindy and boring, don't want to repeat that.
!

if you asked me ? hell yeah - leveling N-alt doesnt bring anything new to game its boring mundane pointless waste of time - once you completed loremaster X (vanilla, tbc .... legion ) on 1 toon all alts should have OPTION to automatickly skip that chunk of content (not as default but for those who want to skip it to endgame)

[Deleted]

for me the main thing is lack of passive resource generation. My alts are in desperate need of resources as i rarely have time to do the WQ's on them as well as my main. I'd like to see them add in a panel to assign 2-3 followers to resource gathering, of course they would be locked out of missions while doing so. This would allow alts to get some resources passively but yet slow down other mission related progress.

Also this. I would love to have a small weekly handout just to cover the mission expenses. Ah well, at least I don't have any legendarys, so I don't have to rush with the last research...

[Luko]

Thank you, I was planning to make this thread today.

There's no reason to think that Legion is alt unfriendly unless you're one of those people who has to complete everything on all of your alts. There's no reason to do Suramar on an alt (especially after tomorrow.) There's no reason to grind reps, etc etc. I have 3 level 110s and with very little effort, my main is at 854 and 2 alts in the 840s. I dont do mythics or raid anything but the occasional normal. Just do the gear / relic world quests when they pop up. You dont have to sit on the game all day either, most of these quests are up for 1-3 days.

Honestly I think people are just comparing the "ease" of gearing alts to WoD which was a shit show. They threw gear at us and gave us nothing to do with it. I'm having a very hard time seeing whats so "alt unfriendly" about this expansion, even after reading through this thread. Lots of entitlement though.

- - - Updated - - -

Because people have a very skewed image of what an alt is.

Bingo. This has a lot to do with it.