Fire Mage guildie Log Critique.

[elvor0]

Hello there fine folks of the mage forum, I am look for some help to analyse what one my raiders is doing wrong with his fire mage. He's a 660 ivl well itemized guy with the Sun King Bracers but his DPS is just tragic all the time.

When we took him on he was fairly new to the class but showed improvement and got better, however as time has gone on he's steadily plummeted in his dps and rankings til he constantly sits on or around 9% in almost every fight. I have tried my utmost over the last couple of weeks to understand what it is that's he's doing wrong but I don't play Fire mage and I don't understand it well enough to figure out what he's doing wrong. I get that casts are going to vary based on crits but I'm not versed enough to figure out what is going on in a cast by cast basis.

I want to help the guy but I'd like to be able to go to him with some actual bullet points rather than just "git good" as he is enthusiastic and I believe able to take on board advice but he just...isn't doing well. At all. And since he got his legendary 3 weeks ago(the sun king pyro 300% damage bracers) he's just gotten worse and worse.

So here is his overall ranking page. It's very low on both normal and heroic.

This is from tonight, just normal dragons or normal Xavius here where he's under 200k dps, on a fight I know Firemages Excel at. , as a choice example. We'd cleared heroic early and did some quick smashing on normal. Immediately I can see his opening burst is extremely low compared to any high ranking fire mages with similar gear, and that his RoP is 6% lower than the top guy but that doesn't make a 200k dps difference. The guy I compared him to doesn't even have the DPS legendary. Now I know the class is crit dependent, but that's not how averages work, you won't sit on 9% in every fight all the time just through bad luck.

Thank you in advance and I hope someone here can give a guy a hand

[Cracked]

Oh my, I don't know where to begin.. most important of all, the guy is not doing anything at all a sizeable portion of the fight, he doesn't do the cooldown rotations properly, he doesn't use cooldowns as soon as they are up.. I would start by spending several hours on the training dummy to get basic rotation into muscle memory. This will be a long way before he can get to a point where raiding is second nature to him.

[Deleted]

I mean there is so much of an issue he probably should just start with reading BASIC guides or watch some videos. Nothing fancy, just ice-veins or altered time is fine. I dont see a reason to start telling you what the issue in his playstyle is, because its pretty much ALL wrong. Just looking at all burn phases (like inside phase on Ilgynoth) his dps is just so terrible he cant have a basic understanding of what to do at all, and thats where mage damage comes from mostly.

As a side note, your other mage is not much better and he should do the same thing.

I understand this might not be super helpful or something you dont know already, but if theres any more specific questions I'll happily answer them.

[Deleted]

How can he not have a ilvl 825 relic in his weapon when you get 1 after the class Campaign is done? clearly this guys is not Worth the energy you are wasting on him

[Deleted]

How can he not have a ilvl 825 relic in his weapon when you get 1 after the class Campaign is done? clearly this guys is not Worth the energy you are wasting on him

Come on man, thats uncalled for to be honest.
He may still learn.. Kudos to you OP for giving it your best to help!

[Deleted]

Come on man, thats uncalled for to be honest.
He may still learn.. Kudos to you OP for giving it your best to help!

True maybe its abit harsh but not being able to sort the bags out and see what loot and rewards you get is a big warning tbh :P

[Deleted]

True maybe its abit harsh but not being able to sort the bags out and see what loot and rewards you get is a big warning tbh :P

im not really disagreeing, but i mean, if he had a shitty attitude about it i'd say it was wasted energy.. but if he WANTS to learn and is a cool guy..

[Furyxd]

I briefly looked at this train wreck of a mage you call a guild member and it's hard to know where to begin. For one, his opener is completely messed up. On most of the pulls I looked it, it looks like he is pre-casting pyroblast at around 1 second before the pull timer and not starting his RoP/combust sequence until ~8 seconds into the fight. Additionally, he is not pre-potting which isn't a major thing but it would certainly help his abysmal damage. In regards to cooldown usage, this guy doesn't know his ass from his elbow. He is running kindling but not using combustion on cooldown. On the Xavius log I peaked at, he didn't use combustion at the start of the fight and also did not use Flame On once through the entire damn fight despite having it talented. During the Ursoc fight, he didn't pre-pot but then decided to use a pot during the fight, except he decided to use the pot after he had already used his cooldowns.

So without writing a book, this guy needs to #1 learn how to perform a proper fire opener #2 needs to learn how to manage his cooldowns (using them would be a good start) and #3 needs to learn the proper fire mage rotation (using Flame On outside of RoP/combustion to cast Fire Blast 2x in a row is not good 99.9999% of the time)

[elvor0]

I mean there is so much of an issue he probably should just start with reading BASIC guides or watch some videos. Nothing fancy, just ice-veins or altered time is fine. I dont see a reason to start telling you what the issue in his playstyle is, because its pretty much ALL wrong. Just looking at all burn phases (like inside phase on Ilgynoth) his dps is just so terrible he cant have a basic understanding of what to do at all, and thats where mage damage comes from mostly.

As a side note, your other mage is not much better and he should do the same thing.

I understand this might not be super helpful or something you dont know already, but if theres any more specific questions I'll happily answer them.

Yeah both of them need work. The other mage is good sometimes not others. I was a bit more surprised with the other one though, he was an absolutely excellent raider in the previous xpac on his hunter, absolutely a guy you'd want raiding with you. I've no idea why he's dropped on his mage. I'm guessing he's misunderstood something somewhere and it's having a knock on effect on the guy this thread is about. Just spent the last 2 hours practicing on my wifes mage and learning to play myself so I have a better understanding of whats going on. It doesn't really seem /that/ tricky though with a few WA for procs and what not so I'm not sure why it's that dire.

Oh my, I don't know where to begin.. most important of all, the guy is not doing anything at all a sizeable portion of the fight, he doesn't do the cooldown rotations properly, he doesn't use cooldowns as soon as they are up.. I would start by spending several hours on the training dummy to get basic rotation into muscle memory. This will be a long way before he can get to a point where raiding is second nature to him.

Yeah it's pretty dire. I didn't realise quite how deep the issues go. Spent some time with him earlier today breaking down each and every issue as best I could. Gonna do a dummy with him later and break down the absolute basics. I knew his burst was shockingly awful but even the rotation is wrong it feels.

True maybe its abit harsh but not being able to sort the bags out and see what loot and rewards you get is a big warning tbh :P

im not really disagreeing, but i mean, if he had a shitty attitude about it i'd say it was wasted energy.. but if he WANTS to learn and is a cool guy..

Yeah I mean, skill level aside, his attitude is what I would say has the potential to make a good raider if he can sort his play out. He's pretty new to the game in general so there's that, and I believe that with the right attitude a player can get good so to speak, everyone has to start somewhere. EDIT: Relics are fine. WClogs can't detect warforged proc'd items.

I mean I like to have a breakdown of things to improve in bullet point format because in the past I've struggled with approaching people with on specifics on how to get better so I like to do the best I can to aid them before I cut them and at least before actually playing Fire myself just in the last few hours it was just a mess of pyroblasts and fireblasts and hotstreaks that I didn't quite understand. But now I feel like I have a better understanding of the class than even he does.... and there's so many core issues that it is easier for you guys to just say "go read a guide" because the fundamentals are just not even worth typing out. *sigh*

[Deleted]

and there's so many core issues that it is easier for you guys to just say "go read a guide" because the fundamentals are just not even worth typing out. *sigh*

No matter what, this gives you a place to start. if he is a cool guy as you say, he wont be too offended, and perhaps it has just been overwhelming. i mean, i just cant wrap my head around the critfishing, so i keep going back to my rogue ..

Im super stoked to see the way youre handling it tho, makes me so happy that some people actually dont mind investing the time, youre a good guy, and your guild sounds good. i wish you the all the best!

Also keep in mind that if he just shows NO improvement, having him roll a new class might not be the worst idea, if his personality is worth keeping.

[elvor0]

No matter what, this gives you a place to start. if he is a cool guy as you say, he wont be too offended, and perhaps it has just been overwhelming. i mean, i just cant wrap my head around the critfishing, so i keep going back to my rogue ..

Also keep in mind that if he just shows NO improvement, having him roll a new class might not be the worst idea, if his personality is worth keeping.

Yeah I don't think he will get offended, he's really approachable, just wanted to come prepared with info. As a caveat, go read a guide wasn't meant at a complaint, just that I'm a bit of an optimist so I just thought to myself "he can't be THIS bad, maybe the boosted ilvl from the legendary is truncating his rankings or something...ilvl isn't everything this expansion(my 825 fucking faulty countermeasure is testament to that), maybe he doesn't have the right crit to support that ilvl" I was trying to rationalize that because of his attitude he must be somewhat better than the logs are indicating, but noo... and having to flat out tell him "go read a guide" just makes me sad for the guy. But hopefully it will work out for him.

[fragga]

What server/faction are you? Id be happy to come on your TS/Discord and help...I'm very patient and enjoy trying to help people.

[JIMM-]

serious l2p issue, get him to watch this video n memorize every single cast , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCwAB9ZRab0 ,

with his BIS wrist legendary, 95 + percentile in no time

[elvor0]

serious l2p issue, get him to watch this video n memorize every single cast , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCwAB9ZRab0 ,

with his BIS wrist legendary, 95 + percentile in no time

Just out of curiosity what is the best way to use the legendary wrists? Use it straight away when it procs as soon as humanly possible or....some other condition?

[waat]

Just out of curiosity what is the best way to use the legendary wrists? Use it straight away when it procs as soon as humanly possible or....some other condition?

Ideally you're using it when you have no charges of fireblast or phoenix thingy so that you're letting them recharge while you channel pyro for 4 seconds. also outside of combustion/RoP because you don't want to waste 4 seconds of either of them.

If you can have 5 stacks of Pyretic Incantation when you cast it that's nice too.

edit: actually you do want it during rune but not during combustion

[elvor0]

Ideally you're using it when you have no charges of fireblast or phoenix thingy so that you're letting them recharge while you channel pyro for 4 seconds. also outside of combustion/RoP because you don't want to waste 4 seconds of either of them.

If you can have 5 stacks of Pyretic Incantation when you cast it that's nice too.

edit: actually you do want it during rune but not during combustion

Cheers, I thought it might be something along those lines. Definitely thought it wouldnt be worth during Combustion but wasn't sure on the DPS maths of using it in regards to FB/PF charges.

[Furyxd]

Cheers, I thought it might be something along those lines. Definitely thought it wouldnt be worth during Combustion but wasn't sure on the DPS maths of using it in regards to FB/PF charges.

I don't know what that guy is smoking but "Phoenix thingy" isn't used outside of RoP/Combustion except to avoid capping at 3 stacks and if you are running Kindling this isn't really an issue most of the time. Using the proc is the highest priority when not you are not in combustion.