Why do casuals need gear?

[Deleted]

I think this is the main issue of the game.

Not only casuals but why does anyone need gear?
To do raids. That's it.
There should be a system and gameplay to make people want to have gear.
Hard solo content campaign...leaderboards of DPS...something

[Coldkil]

-snip-

Looks really nice on paper, but apart the fact they cannot do it in current WoW because it would require a complete revamp of itemization, it may lead to the unwanted scenario where people feel forced to run the path of multiple different progression system that imho would alienate anyone willing to tackle different kinds of content, especially if the gear is mutually exclusive and tailored for a specific content.

EDIT: another thing that wasn't clear on previous post: everyone needs to have a progression path to follow. The fact is that in WoW it overlaps for everyone, just some people start a couple of steps ahead because they're used to it and/or they want some specific content to be done.

Everyone can raid, it's just if you want to or not. To do world quests you don't need a higher ilvl; but you have a progression and rewards to hunt for, asking to get the equivalent of another content is just trying to get better stuff for content you've cleared already. I'm casual, likely going to do only normal raids, but in no way i'm going to ask for better goodies if i'm not doing to do anything for it.

I'll just follow the progression presented and feel rewarded up to the point i'm able to follow it.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

are you seriously asking why the majority of the playerbase needs gear?

you want the majority to have nothing to do?
its a form of progression, it gives you stuff to do in game, for most its fun.

Gear is a tool to progress your character further in the "story" that you chose. If you are 850 item level then you are equipped to do everything the game has to offer outside instanced PvE and PvP.

You could ask why we have to play Pet Battles to get xp on them and why we can't just grind herbs instead, same thing. Pet levels lets you do higher pet content.

As usual people look at gear as ONLY a reward when in reality it's more a tool to progress you further.
In this case if someone is at 850 and has no interest in instanced content then that player is done with what the game has to offer.

[Deleted]

Everyone wants better gear - casual and hardcore. But not everyone needs better- notice the difference between wanting and needing.
The fun part is, that ilvl isn't always better. For arms warrior you want mastery on everything as it has higher value than strength.
People who just go for higher is better (ilvls) are not good players. People need to realize that. Right stats> ilvl

[Darktbs]

I think this is the main issue of the game.

Not only casuals but why does anyone need gear?
To do raids. That's it.
There should be a system and gameplay to make people want to have gear.
Hard solo content campaign...leaderboards of DPS...something

The Main issue its that people care to much about what they will get or what people get and forget the game should played for fun.

[Echocho]

Why do raiders need gear? Just tune everything around us going in naked and just remove gear from the game.

[Deleted]

That is because the game only offers gear as the sole means to keep people "hooked" on the game and keep paying the sub. Its the same cheap design as any garbage f2p game on facebook except you have more gameplay here rather than just "click click and wait" (but we are still going that way with the useless time gating and command table).

Do you really think most people in this game would play any part of the content if not for the gear treadmill? Thats all there is in this game, that the only form of "character progression" this game can offer, which is a pretty poor excuse for an RPG. RPG never were about a gear fiesta, and all gear does is increase numbers on your screen, your spells do not actually change or become bigger (like a bigger fireball), they just show more numbers.

So why do people care so much about such futile crap? For the same reason people play stupid f2P games with nothing interesting and no substance, its just a carrot on a stick, tunnelvision reward oriented game. Its exactly like diablo 3 where people can play all day long to increase quasi infinite paragon levels, which do nothing for you gameplay wise, they just are an increase of numbers and some gamers for some reason obsess over that because its a virtual feeling of "power"

[gamgee76]

People seem to forget that the vast majority of players in wow are "casual" and that pvp is a side activity, the "Hardcore" players are in the minority , the reward for the journey in most cases is gear ....

[Master Guns]

I'll never understand the desire to have casuals not get gear. It's so irrelevant to you. It doesn't effect you. If you're so good you'll have the prestigious tier gear from the current raids in mythic form. And you earned it. Casuals will never have that. So there's already a disparity which is good. So why does casuals getting gear upset you? It's not your gear. It's high end casual gear. And people know the difference.

[Rotted]

Ignoring how the post is written, I kind of agree, 850 is more than enough for solo content and face rolling the WQs, but I can apperciate everyone needs some sort of progression that's suited for them. I mean they'd lose a lot of subs now if WQ and the such had a cap of 850 on

[Deleted]

Ok correction. They pay and the same right to loot as you do. Better? I think you know what I meant and the fact that you chose to point it out proves more about you then me.

No, they pay which gives them the same right to PLAY.
What's the point of character progression without any effort? We can just say for every week that you sub you get an upgrade without playing the game, is that actually a good system?

[Allarius]

The real issue here is that people need gear to get a sense of accomplishment. They other people get gear for their efforts and that somehow translates into making their accomplishments feel worthless just because it doesn't give them something tangible(so to speak).

People really defeat themselves in this regard. Sure casuals really don't need gear, but there's nothing inherently wrong with wanting that reward, so I don't personally have an issue with them getting it. What I have an issue with is WHY they think they need the gear. I'd be much more comfortable with higher rewards given out if it wasn't for the fact that people essentially trick themselves into thinking that completing a task isn't good enough and that there needs to be an additional reward on top of it.

[Jyggalag]

Folks, there's actually very good reason that casuals who don't raid don't get raid quality loot.
It's because raid quality loot is tied to raid lockouts. Bosses are designed to require a minimum ilvl to complete, by even the most skilled players. It gives raids replayability and a healthy life-span.
If players were able to obtain raid quality loot outside of raids (which they were this tier via mythic+) then raids would be cleared faster than they can be released (which already happened this tier with several guilds clearing in week 1). This is why the most hardcore guilds do split runs with alts.
This is not a sustainable model for the majority of raiders in WoW. This is why the AP nerf from running 3 chest low key M+ was implemented. Guilds who have cleared and took advantage of the AP before the nerf are vastly ahead of most in terms of artifact traits alone. 1-2 gold traits can be massive for most classes.
Blizz have also stated countless times that they want to deter guilds from doing split runs but aren't sure how to do so without hurting players with alts.

I raid in a 2 night/week guild and we have several raiders who raid here because they can only physically play 2 nights per week. Those players aren't able/willing to participate in mythic+ and as such a few of them had to be benched during Mythic Ursoc progression because they didn't have the gear. Those players are not enjoying being benched and some may even quit. If raid quality loot was tied to raids like it has been for years now, these players would be on par with the rest of the raid team and wouldn't be at the disadvantage they are already.
This would only get progressively worse if WQ and other solo content rewarded raid quality loot, where raid teams would consist more and more of players who can put in the time outside of raids to get geared. Raids would be cleared faster and we'd have fuck all to do for longer.
It would also encourage class stacking if all of us on 2nd tier classes/specs could reroll to our FotM alts and get raid geared from solo content.

Raid quality gear for everyone is not healthy for raids, not healthy for casuals and not healthy for WoW or any MMO in general.
If everyone were to be on par with gear then they might as well make PvE the same as PvP where gear is normalized and group content relied purely on skill.
This may sound like a good idea in theory but it just wouldn't work because gear is needed by guilds of various skill depending on the encounter. That's why farm exists. If your guild can't beat a boss, you go back and kill the ones you have already until you have enough HP, damage, healing to trivialize some of the mechanics so that you get a kill eventually.
It would be impossible to tune bosses to be a challenge for the best guilds and not a complete brick wall for lesser skilled guilds if everyone were to be on par with gear.

[Jibjub]

I got triggered when I read the latest Q&A and this guy is asking blizz why he can't get higher than 850 without going into dungeons? He goes on to say that they need a "casual in their office telling them every day that he has nothing to do". If you don't want to do instanced PvE or PvP YOU DON'T NEED GEAR! If you are really that "casual" why do you need a HARDCORE ILVL!?!? go farm mounts or pets or xmogs or does that require an 880 ilvl? If you don't want to play WoW than don't play WoW don't whine and complain that it isn't Hello Kitty Island Adventure. I work AND go to school full time and I'm 855 ilvl and ready for karazan tomorrow. I'm a casual by my own definition and I never feel entitled to gear.


TLR Want gear? Get good. You don't deserve anything from WQ.

Why do hardcores need gear?

MIND BLOWN.

[cuafpr]

why should content for progression be limited to one style of play? If a person hates raiding/dungeons they need to be able to progress their character just as much as a hardcore raider imo. I don't care if they make Mythic pet battles and they dropped mythic ilvl gear big whoop. Let everyone play and advance as they want to.

- - - Updated - - -

Why do hardcores need gear?

MIND BLOWN.

i know right let mythic only drop xmog gear with no stats.. you want a challenge there ya go.

[Goron24]

Because the idea of 1 track progression is silly? Being forced to raid to progress your gear as the only avenue of progression is bad design. You Alienate the portion of your player base who doesn't have the time to raid (which if you have things like a life, job, girlfriend, kids is tough to find time for). You're literally shooting yourselves in the foot if you cater to the 1% that have all the time in the world to grind out content non stop.

Sure other avenues probably shouldn't be as lucrative but should still be decent enough to get them into a spot where they can start to raid should they so choose or at least have some pay off for time invested. In previous expansions crafting was utterly useless and it shouldn't have been. If someone likes crafting let them craft to get gear, if someone likes 5 mans let them do 5 mans. Just because you hardcore raid doesn't mean you're opinion is right.

[Thelxi]

Same reason raiders "need" gear: kill things faster with more survivability. No one "needs" gear in this game. Gear is a very temporary and competitive concept in this game.

[Deleted]

The Main issue its that people care to much about what they will get or what people get and forget the game should played for fun.

Exactly, if the game was fun you would see people helping noobs doing quests and dungeons showing off their skill, armor, DPS, etc whatever
But everyone is worried about item level for some reason to...do nothing in the game.

I think its because of the core mechanics of the game.
If it was a action RPG where you can solo a boss with pure skill and mechanics like in Monster Hunter the community would be different.

[Deleted]

I'm casual insofar as I have a wife, a child and pets that rightfully demand the majority of my time. Therefore I can't commit to a raiding guild like I used to. Gearing up for people like me takes way longer (privvy to RNG ofc) but eventually we get to a point where we've got everything we want from the Emissary chests, occasional Mythic and sheer fluke. Where's our gear progression from that point?

I don't think there's a single casual that wants access to the best gear for no effort but quite honestly, by the time we get around to getting the gear you had in the 2-4 weeks it took you to faceroll Normal and Heroic, you're onto end-game Mythic content.

I'd like to play knowing that I can still upgrade beyond this glass-ceiling, and I'm happy to do it at a slower pace.

Prestige is in the kills, surely?

[Travkin]

OP why are you bothered with that fact, are you scared they will take your raiding, pvping or w/e spot? It's a game ignore it, over come it and surpass them. I wonder how you would handle seeing a freshly made and leveled up 110 getting his legendary