Why do casuals need gear?

[Paulosio]

This is a silly argument...

Blizz could tune the mythic raid content so that it would be be equally as hard without gear upgrades as it is now with gear upgrades.. With the current model you'd struggle to do the next tier in the former tiers gear because the ammount of hp, damage etc goes up with each tier. BUT there's no reason that hp etc couldn't be kept more uniform across all raid tiers and that would remove the need for more powerful gear to beat the bosses. The reason it isn't this way is that people like to be rewarded and in WOW reward often comes in the form of gear. Lots of people like to pretend gear is simply a tool to them but they are only lying to themselves by pretending they don't get any enjoyment out of growing their characters power and seeing their numbers increase.

There's also more to the game beyond raid tiers... Even if you just want to farm the previous tiers raids for mounts you will need gear. Now anyone can go farm Throne of Thunder or Mogushan Vaults for the mounts but at the start of last xpac that wasn't the case.... but then towards the middle / later stages of WOD more and more people could go do that solo and now pretty much anyone can. Right now people can't really do heroic hellfire citadel but towards the end of this xpac some people / classes will be able to and next xpac everyone will be able to... This is casual content. It's also content that requires character power increases to tackle.

Also define casual. My guild raids 1 night a week. We are now 2/7 mythic... I suppose you could say we are casual and so in your eyes we don't need gear... but how are we meant to kill the mythic bosses without gear ? I suppose what you really mean is "why do none raiders need gear" ? Again there is a lots of content outside of raids... And even to do normal / heroic mode raids you are going to need some gear above questing gear are you not? Where do you stop with taking gear rewards out of the game ? Remove gear from dungeons and just make them a story tool ?

[Deleted]

You guys forget that WoW is an MMO, not a single-player game and that dev time is limited.

From the beginning of RPGs there has been that one truth around - you get better gear by doing difficult things like dungeons, treasure hunting, killing elite monsters et cetera. Now, the only way to give people who don't want to do group-oriented content a progression system with better gear is to add more single-player oriented content like more elites, solo-oriented dungeons, trials, you name it.

While it does sound great, this will take that precious dev time and result in less content for groups. In the end, since this is an MMO group content will always (and should always) be in the first place.

SWTOR is a nice single-player MMO, but people don't play it.

[Lochton]

Casuals should just be given a pair of overalls, a rake, and a hoe. Let them work!

And I guess 'hardcore' players should just be locked in the raid/bg without other means of gameplay? Seriously, the whole thing about dividing casuals and hardcore is bullshit. The whole thing about people expecting things without work is also bullshit. The whole thing about people demanding things outside of their single path gameplay, is bullshit.

[schwarzkopf]

TLR Want gear? Get good. You don't deserve anything from WQ.

Why does anyone want gear ?

We all play a game by investing time in return for bits of data displayed in various ways.

[YMaTTe]

i'm a casual, i want cool looking shining gear, so since i pay the same price as any hardcore player to play this game, i deserve it.
/thread

[Lochton]

Why are casuals allowed to play in the first place? I vote for casual only servers.

You mean, all servers?

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Did we ever conclude what a casual and what a hardcore person is?

[WskyDK]

Need?

Because if the gear treadmill stops moving, they're less incentived to play.

[cuafpr]

Well THINK about it. The only reason you need better gear is because boss encounters are tuned for it. They have bigger health pools and do more damage, so you need gear. The game COULD be designed so that gear doesn't matter All encounters are tuned to be easy, kinda hard, hard, very hard, and really effing hard. And then you just go in and have whatever challenge you want.

If you NEED gear to want to do the raid in the first place, then you might want to question your reasons for playing in the first place...

We don't need progression at all. It's the same argument. If you don't think "casuals" need progression then why argue anyone needs it. Just let us play for fun...

already been cleared by people with X ilvl by several guilds, so apparently the gear lvl that's in the game now is good enough for mythic so mythic doesn't need ilvl gear..... Unless of course its really about the gear for progression in which case brings back the point of letting people progress their toons/gear via other ways to same ilvl.

[rasako]

Why do hardcore players need gear? Just scale ilevel to whatever it's supposed to be upon entering a Mythic raid and reward cosmetics. I mean it's all for the prestige anyway, so super hardcores don't need gear rewards.



Good for you? I picked the right class too and I can get into Mythics with ease and faceroll. About half the classes and specs have issues getting into Mythic dungeons because people think they're awful. And I hate to break this to you, but just the manual group finding cockblock of Mythic keeps participation rates in it waaaaaaaaaay lower than you probably think they are, and it has nothing to do with skill or effort.

Okay? and that's not blizzard's problem. It's the pathetic and cancerous wow community's problem. No wonder I just couldn't get into legion. Everyone has the same RIGHT to GET GEAR, you just have to, you know, actually fucking run the dungeon to get it. The vast majority of content in the game up to and INCLUDING mythic 5 mans are window-licking easy. Think of it as your right to remain silent. Nobody said that you HAVE to be silent, they're just simply stating you're allowed to be by law.

Content is so easy in fact I was making my own solo pugs as a fury warrior at 823 ilevel for mythic 5 mans and I was playing so casually I didn't even hit max level in the first week of release. And with the introduction of world quests gearing for a casual player who has an extreme social phobia and will not group for dungeons is easier than it has EVER BEEN!

The only thing I can agree on in this thread is that there really is very little to do. I used to be an extremely hardcore raider/player for YEARS and I have been much more casual since mists of pandaria released and I have already quit legion because it didn't take me more than a week to get to an ilevel where I was stuck back at the "raid or die" situation in-game and LFR will never appeal to me because I don't want loot handed to me for doing essentially nothing.

TL;DR as an extreme hardcore player turned casual since MoP, this expansion is the most casual friendly of any other. Quit complaining and hit ilevel 840 in a couple days through World Quests.

[FlemmMinis]

You mean, all servers?

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Did we ever conclude what a casual and what a hardcore person is?

Casuals are all people with more luck than other people, who go to work and don't play for 12h+. Hardcore players are self entitled people, who play 12h+ and don't have this luck.

[Krille]

already been cleared by people with X ilvl by several guilds, so apparently the gear lvl that's in the game now is good enough for mythic so mythic doesn't need ilvl gear..... Unless of course its really about the gear for progression in which case brings back the point of letting people progress their toons/gear via other ways to same ilvl.

Wrong. The people that cleared mythic in a day had 870+ in average ilvl because of mythic+ farm. To say that gear doesn't matter in progression is silly.

[Jotaux]

I don't really care what gear a casual is wearing. Hell, if its better than mine then I'll just start doing whatever it is they are doing...

[epLe]

I work AND go to school full time and I'm 855 ilvl and ready for karazan tomorrow. I'm a casual by my own definition and I never feel entitled to gear.

TLR Want gear? Get good. You don't deserve anything from WQ.

So all you actually are saying is that you're a kid who still is in school, learning theory and academics. You still have everything to learn about real life and how people interact, even on the internet.

Karazhan drops 855 loot (except last boss), so if you're allready at that itemlevel - you're not "ready" for karazhan, you're ready to overgear it and whine on forums about how easy it is.

And yes, everyone deserves to get rewarded for the WQ they do.

Want gear? Get good - oh lol, even arenas do not reward gear to gladiators. Getting carried in average raiding guilds is no sign of being good.

[cuafpr]

Wrong. The people that cleared mythic in a day had 870+ in average ilvl because of mythic+ farm. To say that gear doesn't matter in progression is silly.

of course it is.. thus my point. if people want to progress they should be allowed to via other ways outside of raids and get the same ilvl gear. Why doesn't it bother people if someone that never sets foot in a raid has the same ilvl/gear as them is beyond me.

[Krille]

of course it is.. thus my point. if people want to progress they should be allowed to via other ways outside of raids and get the same ilvl gear. Why doesn't it bother people if someone that never sets foot in a raid has the same ilvl/gear as them is beyond me.

Which is what actually happened... These people did dungeons and got 870+, sure they had to spam them ALOT. But it's still gear outside of raids.

[Fang7986]

Why does anyone need gear? Raid progression could be based on skill alone and having to defeat bosses extremely undergeared. And for all the people complaining single players don't need gear the truth is more players don't do raids than do. Remember during Wrath and the beginning or Cata the majority of players weren't even at the level cap. MMO means you see other players not that you have to play in groups with other players. Raiders are just insecure special snowflakes who feel the entire game needs to revolve around them, when the truth is they are the minority of WoW players and Blizz needs to stop catering to them so much.

[Jtbrig7390]

I got triggered when I read the latest Q&A and this guy is asking blizz why he can't get higher than 850 without going into dungeons? He goes on to say that they need a "casual in their office telling them every day that he has nothing to do". If you don't want to do instanced PvE or PvP YOU DON'T NEED GEAR! If you are really that "casual" why do you need a HARDCORE ILVL!?!? go farm mounts or pets or xmogs or does that require an 880 ilvl? If you don't want to play WoW than don't play WoW don't whine and complain that it isn't Hello Kitty Island Adventure. I work AND go to school full time and I'm 855 ilvl and ready for karazan tomorrow. I'm a casual by my own definition and I never feel entitled to gear.


TLR Want gear? Get good. You don't deserve anything from WQ.

Its almost like this is a RPG and you know what matters the most in a RPG?????

Character Progression, If a person's character stops progressing in power they stop playing.

We get it you l33t bra, but yes everyone needs a way to keep progressing there characters power. Some do Mythic raiding while others do normal 5man's.

[Dsc]

As a retired hardcore, now happily very casual,. I keep myself geared enough to return to hardcore at nearly will.

I never will. But,. Having gear means I can enjoy world content,. The newest raids and dungeons, kill world mobs and spend time with friends without missing a beat. I can bring value to a group instead of being a carry. I might not be 870,. But I'm good to heroic raid and slip right into a few mythic +.

It's a comfortable place to be.

When I'm carrying your shit geared alt you don't know how to play, be thankful I'm geared.

[Sanitee]

Everyone who plays deserves the chance at same gear. BUT, if you want the best, you got to do the toughest content otherwise you will always be a bit behind. Has everyone forgotten what computer games are? You don't log into them and get the best shit by default. You got to kill bosses and run gauntlets to get the REALLY juicy stuff

[Bbobert]

I got triggered when I read the latest Q&A and this guy is asking blizz why he can't get higher than 850 without going into dungeons? He goes on to say that they need a "casual in their office telling them every day that he has nothing to do". If you don't want to do instanced PvE or PvP YOU DON'T NEED GEAR! If you are really that "casual" why do you need a HARDCORE ILVL!?!? go farm mounts or pets or xmogs or does that require an 880 ilvl? If you don't want to play WoW than don't play WoW don't whine and complain that it isn't Hello Kitty Island Adventure. I work AND go to school full time and I'm 855 ilvl and ready for karazan tomorrow. I'm a casual by my own definition and I never feel entitled to gear.

TLR Want gear? Get good. You don't deserve anything from WQ.

First off you are misrepresenting what the guy/gal actually said. The player said

"WQ´s are great, but they stop progressing at 850, Crafting is great, but it also stops progressing at 850 + it requires mythic dungeons, HC dungeons don´t offer progress, LFR doesn´t, non rated BG doesn't ..."

He never at any time said "I want free loot, I don't want to work for it" so not trying to create drama where none exists.
He went on to further say "The re-design of Kara, damn it´s great, but it´s not accessible by the majority of your players" He never explained that last comment and it would be helpful if he did, but I'm not going to speculate on what he meant or assume what he wants because it's unfair to the poster and could be completely wrong.

If you want to get upset about someone's opinion then more power to you, but there is no need to spread even more negativity in a forum.