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  1. #201
    I thought her struggle with Greymane in Stormheim was good old fashioned devious Sylvanas.

    Her as Warchief still seems a bit like a PG version of Sylvanas. I'm hoping once the dust settles on Legion we'll see her return to form a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    No, no, apparently Slyvanus is already in her afterlife. She is trying to escape her After-afterlife. Haha. I'm joking.
    We have both a novel and a quest that are lore, which indicate that the state of afterlife is defined by the character's actions prior to reaching that very same afterlife.

    The "hell" version of afterlife is probably an automatic one for all undead as their passing into afterlife has been obstructed by necromancy. As such, their very presence among the living can be considered a "sin". Not that hard to figure out. I guess there is a way to redeem oneself in the Warcraft universe, but so far none of Sylvanas' actions point her in that direction.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2016-10-24 at 12:26 AM.

  3. #203
    Ctrl-F: Slyvanus

    4 Results.

    Oh my.
    Suddenly, one day, 99.7% of the Lich King's death knights broke free.
    Clearly, the lich king was keylogged

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    We have both a novel and a quest that are lore, which indicate that the state of afterlife is defined by the character's actions prior to reaching that very same afterlife.

    The "hell" version of afterlife is probably an automatic one for all undead as their passing into afterlife has been obstructed by necromancy. As such, their very presence among the living can be considered a "sin". Not that hard to figure out. I guess there is a way to redeem oneself in the Warcraft universe, but so far none of Sylvanas' actions point her in that direction.
    It's probably also good to mention that in warcraft, afterlifes aren't all powerful like they are in other literatures. There's quite a few of them aswell and they can be artificially created.

    Blizzard probably needs to sit down and explain them better, because as far as we know, there's no actual afterlife that is absolute.

    Halls of Valor
    Helheim
    Paradise
    Shadow Lands
    Twisting Nether(it's like killing a demon, they go to hell and then later find their way back to earth)
    Emerald Dream
    That massive world tree or whatever, that Avianna oversees that all flying creatures supposedly go to when they die on Azeroth
    The Elemental plane
    Each planets spiritual afterlife(Azeroth and Draenor both have spirits/ancestors that shamans and shit can talk to)

    And probably a few more.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    He wouldn't have the time to kill anyone. He would turn undead, then we could simply kill him.
    I outright quoted the part of the questline that covered this. How are you incapable of grasping it? Him being undead slave of the Lich King for a second was an issue that Tirion aimed to prevent. Because it was a fate unbecoming of a Paladin, especially one so devout.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    And his soul wouldn't go to a swell afterlife if we killed him after he turned undead? Why bring A'dal into this at all if his soul would go on into "paradise" after being killed as an undead anyway? Undeath isn't the afterlife. Undeath is the state of being NOT DEAD, UN-DEAD. You die, then come back to this reality as a living corpse. That isn't the afterlife. Your entire argument falls apart.
    Again, the questline doesn't say what afterlife he'd go to if we killed him after he turned undead. Not even once. And considering that normal people dying go to Shadowlands which aren't exactly a paradise, it's kinda clear that A'dal did something special. Which still doesn't mention shit about the afterlife he'd go to if killed after becoming undead. And A'dal wasn't contacted to take his soul anywhere anyway. Tirion had no way of knowing that would happen. The goal of the questline was curing him. Words, how do they work.

    Also, it seems I overestimated you when I pointed out the required step for undeath to you (i.e. dying). I expected you to connect the dots from there on your own, but once again I've been shown that holding any expectations for your cognitive functions is futile. Afterlife is nothing more than the concept of life after death. Doesn't have to be paradise or any other type of external realm/plane of existence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    We have both a novel and a quest that are lore, which indicate that the state of afterlife is defined by the character's actions prior to reaching that very same afterlife.
    We have no idea why Sylvanas and Arthas went where they did. You're speculating.


    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The "hell" version of afterlife is probably an automatic one for all undead as their passing into afterlife has been obstructed by necromancy. As such, their very presence among the living can be considered a "sin". Not that hard to figure out. I guess there is a way to redeem oneself in the Warcraft universe, but so far none of Sylvanas' actions point her in that direction.
    So which one is it? People go to that void because of their actions or because they have been resurrected into undeath? Your headcanon isn't even consistent with itself.
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  6. #206
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    In the Warcraft universe the afterlife, such as it is, appears to be an entirely artificial construct - moral choices only effect the ultimate destination insofar as they align an individual with one of the powers that controls one of the afterlife scenarios. Druids or servants of Ysera are pulled towards the Emerald Dream upon death. Trolls appear to be pulled into whatever plane houses the Loa, or else remain earthbound spirits that watch over their families or loved ones. Servants of the Light appear to be pulled toward it, and servants of the Old Gods or the Void are pulled in its direction.

    As for Arthas in his person as the Lich King, he was steeped in Necromantic and Shadow energies - so it would make sense that his spirit would precede towards the Void on the occasion of his death. Similarly for Sylvanas, driven by the darker urges of her transformation into an undead being, the overall pull would be towards the Shadow (not discounting whatever additional stresses and strains were caused by her specific circumstances of becoming undead). It's also possible that an external party has some form of plan for Sylvanas - her soul may have been claimed by an entity with the power to influence the direction of one's soul. My personal theory is that Helya was at least partly responsible for Sylvanas' trip to the hellish shadow-underworld she experienced, and that her meeting and alliance with the Lich King's Val'kyr was no accident.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    I outright quoted the part of the questline that covered this. How are you incapable of grasping it? Him being undead slave of the Lich King for a second was an issue that Tirion aimed to prevent. Because it was a fate unbecoming of a Paladin, especially one so devout.




    Again, the questline doesn't say what afterlife he'd go to if we killed him after he turned undead. Not even once. And considering that normal people dying go to Shadowlands which aren't exactly a paradise, it's kinda clear that A'dal did something special. Which still doesn't mention shit about the afterlife he'd go to if killed after becoming undead. And A'dal wasn't contacted to take his soul anywhere anyway. Tirion had no way of knowing that would happen. The goal of the questline was curing him. Words, how do they work.

    Also, it seems I overestimated you when I pointed out the required step for undeath to you (i.e. dying). I expected you to connect the dots from there on your own, but once again I've been shown that holding any expectations for your cognitive functions is futile. Afterlife is nothing more than the concept of life after death. Doesn't have to be paradise or any other type of external realm/plane of existence.
    If the goal was solely to prevent him from turning undead, we could have easily used fire to burned his body into ash before he changed. Purging him before he became undead.

    "Normal" people go to the Shadowlands, but "normal" is different than "good". Just because it is the "default" afterlife doesn't mean it's a good place. In fact, it's described as a bad place.

    "...the Shadowlands represent death. They are nightmarish realms of decay, labyrinthine spiritual planes teeming with the souls of the dead who have passed from the world of the living.

    The origins of the Shadowlands remain uncertain, but they have existed ever since mortal life first arose in the physical universe. Many believe that mortal souls are drawn into this dark place at the point of death, where they remain forever after. Still others hope that their souls will go to a brighter place..."
    World of Warcraft: Chronicle, page 12

    The use of plural implies multiple levels of the Shadowlands. The whole place is described as "nightmarish".

  8. #208
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    If the goal was solely to prevent him from turning undead, we could have easily used fire to burned his body into ash before he changed. Purging him before he became undead.
    perhaps that would have just made him turn into a specter
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  9. #209
    Apparently burning someone on a pyre constitutes curing now. Fascinating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    If the goal was solely to prevent him from turning undead, we could have easily used fire to burned his body into ash before he changed. Purging him before he became undead.
    Its a strange place you come from where you honor people by burning them alive.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Apparently burning someone on a pyre constitutes curing now. Fascinating.
    http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:By_Fire_Be_Purged

    Yeah, it actually is a cure for undeath. Impossibiru!!!!!11!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Its a strange place you come from where you honor people by burning them alive.
    It would be a strange place if they became undead zombies too. Oh I'm sorry, were you actually being serious? Haha.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:By_Fire_Be_Purged

    Yeah, it actually is a cure for undeath. Impossibiru!!!!!11!

    - - - Updated - - -



    It would be a strange place if they became undead zombies too. Oh I'm sorry, were you actually being serious? Haha.
    So you actualy propose that they should have burned venerated paladin alive.

  13. #213
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    So you actualy propose that they should have burned venerated paladin alive.
    He'd only burn if he was a witch, otherwise it'd tickle.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:By_Fire_Be_Purged

    Yeah, it actually is a cure for undeath. Impossibiru!!!!!11!
    Considering that you don't know what curing means (that part is very possibru), it is indeed impossibru. How about you take basic English classes before engaging an English speaking forum with your inane lorebends supported only by you getting triggered by Sylvanas and embarrassing yourself over and over again?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  15. #215
    Banned Highwhale's Avatar
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    How about you take basic English classes before engaging an English speaking forum with your inane lorebends supported only by you getting triggered by Sylvanas and embarrassing yourself over and over again?
    Going for personal insult when lack of arguments? Haha

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    So you actualy propose that they should have burned venerated paladin alive.
    If it meant preventing him from becoming an undead. It would be an easier and quicker death than being tortured alive or experimented on like some NPCs suffer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Considering that you don't know what curing means (that part is very possibru), it is indeed impossibru. How about you take basic English classes before engaging an English speaking forum with your inane lorebends supported only by you getting triggered by Sylvanas and embarrassing yourself over and over again?
    It's a cure because if the body is burned to dust the undead won't be raised from the corpse.
    Last edited by Tripzzz; 2016-10-25 at 09:47 AM.

  17. #217
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    So we've reached this brilliant point in the argument "burn people alive to save them from undeath"sounds like the scarlet crusade which the alliance and the horde took turns on.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    So we've reached this brilliant point in the argument "burn people alive to save them from undeath"sounds like the scarlet crusade which the alliance and the horde took turns on.
    Well, no. Scarlet Crusade thought everyone that wasn't them was an undead and that's why they burned them. So, while they were paranoid and crazy, they were still more logical than Tripzzz.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    So we've reached this brilliant point in the argument "burn people alive to save them from undeath"sounds like the scarlet crusade which the alliance and the horde took turns on.
    Seeing as how fire mages burn people alive all the time and the player character literally kills for gold. I don't think making a hard decision like that in warcraft is crazy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Well, no. Scarlet Crusade thought everyone that wasn't them was an undead and that's why they burned them. So, while they were paranoid and crazy, they were still more logical than Tripzzz.
    Convincing argument.

  20. #220
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Seeing as how fire mages burn people alive all the time and the player character literally kills for gold. I don't think making a hard decision like that in warcraft is crazy.
    The argent Crusade isnt the player, they arent going to have their own burned alive, Tirion would smite you.

    Convincing argument.
    much better than "burn our crusaders alive"
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

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