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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Why should any media organization waste their time on O'Keefe when his track record is literally just lies.
    Why would any media organization replay an 11 year old tape of Donald Trump, that has nothing to do with current campaign issues, hundreds and hundreds of times over for two weeks straight?
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    Before the camps, I regarded the existence of nationality as something that shouldn’t be noticed - nationality did not really exist, only humanity. But in the camps one learns: if you belong to a successful nation you are protected and you survive. If you are part of universal humanity - too bad for you -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    It's not the media's job to report on YouTube video's. If O'Keefe wants full transparency, he needs to start by releasing the full, unedited videos.
    Ironically, the argument he is making is that the media is incompetent, and that is why they won't recklessly report on heavily edited videos from a proven liar and convicted felon with a history of deceptively editing videos.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    It's not the media's job to report on YouTube video's. If O'Keefe wants full transparency, he needs to start by releasing the full, unedited videos.
    Really, because it seems like the media has made quite a few odd editorial decisions during this campaign if you hold them to that standard...
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    Before the camps, I regarded the existence of nationality as something that shouldn’t be noticed - nationality did not really exist, only humanity. But in the camps one learns: if you belong to a successful nation you are protected and you survive. If you are part of universal humanity - too bad for you -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Why would any media organization replay an 11 year old tape of Donald Trump, that has nothing to do with current campaign issues, hundreds and hundreds of times over for two weeks straight?
    Why would the media not report on a presidential candidate openly bragging about sexually assaulting women?

    What you may be failing to understand is that just because you either don't care about the sexual assault of women, or you want to sexually assault women, or you like the idea that women get sexually assaulted, whatever your personal reason for not caring about that is, OTHER people, and especially women, find it of particular interest if a presidential candidate, who will be in charge of federal law enforcement, sexually assaults women.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Why would any media organization replay an 11 year old tape of Donald Trump, that has nothing to do with current campaign issues, hundreds and hundreds of times over for two weeks straight?
    Nice attempt at deflection.

    And wasn't that tape released in full?

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Really, because it seems like the media has made quite a few odd editorial decisions during this campaign if you hold them to that standard...
    It would be media malpractice for any organization to spend time on a heavily edited video from a convicted felon with a long history of deceptively editing videos.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Why would the media not report on a presidential candidate openly bragging about sexually assaulting women?

    What you may be failing to understand is that just because you either don't care about the sexual assault of women, or you want to sexually assault women, or you like the idea that women get sexually assaulted, whatever your personal reason for not caring about that is, OTHER people, and especially women, find it of particular interest if a presidential candidate, who will be in charge of federal law enforcement, sexually assaults women.
    I believe the term you're looking for is Unwanted Sexual Advances. Those advances, if done in a manner that pushes past the point that the woman has asked the man to stop may turn into charges such as sexual assault, or sexual harassment. As of now, even the media is on board that the way to describe these actions are unwanted sexual advances until a pattern that shows some kind of criminality actually occurred to the statutes of a particular crime, such as sexual assault or sexual harassment. From what I've heard from the womens stories, it seems more like he was very quick to move in for a kiss or physical touching, but as soon as they said no, he backed off. If they said no, and he forcefully proceeded, you have a case for criminal action, until then, you just have a lewd man.

    It's kind of offensive to victims of real sexual assault to equate something like a kiss from a man you had no interest in on your first in person meeting, to the actions that constitute sexual assault.
    Last edited by Narwal; 2016-10-24 at 07:46 PM.

  8. #348
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    I genuinely cannot imagine anyone taking O'Keefe seriously at this point. I mean I suppose there will always be someone who goes and begrudgingly sees if the wolf is there this time, and naturally there was nothing of real substance in his videos.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Narwal View Post
    I believe the term you're looking for is Unwanted Sexual Advances. Those advances, if done in a manner that pushes past the point that the woman has asked the man to stop may turn into charges such as sexual assault, or sexual harassment. As of now, even the media is on board that the way to describe these actions are unwanted sexual advances until a pattern that shows some kind of criminality actually occurred to the statutes of a particular crime, such as sexual assault or sexual harassment. From what I've heard from the womens stories, it seems more like he was very quick to move in for a kiss or physical touching, but as soon as they said no, he backed off. If they said no, and he forcefully proceeded, you have a case for criminal action, until then, you just have a lewd man.
    If there wasn't explicit consent, then it's sexual assault. I agree there's no grounds to call this sexual harassment, but he absolutely committed sexual assault, at least under federal law, states may vary of course.

    Scrub Resto Druid Trying to Make a Difference

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwal View Post
    It's kind of offensive to victims of real sexual assault
    You are not the spokesman for victims of sexual assault.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by AndaliteBandit View Post
    You are not the spokesman for victims of sexual assault.
    I can be for one, but by no means do I mean to represent all.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwal View Post
    I believe the term you're looking for is Unwanted Sexual Advances. Those advances, if done in a manner that pushes past the point that the woman has asked the man to stop may turn into charges such as sexual assault, or sexual harassment. As of now, even the media is on board that the way to describe these actions are unwanted sexual advances until a pattern that shows some kind of criminality actually occurred to the statutes of a particular crime, such as sexual assault or sexual harassment. From what I've heard from the womens stories, it seems more like he was very quick to move in for a kiss or physical touching, but as soon as they said no, he backed off. If they said no, and he forcefully proceeded, you have a case for criminal action, until then, you just have a lewd man.

    It's kind of offensive to victims of real sexual assault to equate something like a kiss from a man you had no interest in on your first in person meeting, to the actions that constitute sexual assault.
    http://www.tampabay.com/news/politic...ump-of/2299905

    "Kristin Anderson told the Washington Post that Trump put his hand up her skirt, touching her vagina through her underwear, during a brief encounter in a Manhattan nightclub in the early 1990s."

    That's sexual assault.

    "In one 1992 incident, Harth alleged, Trump put his hand up her skirt to her crotch under a table while dining with her and her boyfriend. In 1993, she alleged that while giving her a tour of Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach, he pushed her against a wall of the room being used as daughter Ivanka's bedroom and began kissing her."

    That's sexual assault.

    "About 1997, Cathy Heller told the Guardian that she was attending a Mother's Day brunch at Mar-a-Lago when she was introduced to Trump, who she said grabbed her and moved to kiss her on the mouth. She said she leaned back to avoid him, but Trump exclaimed "Oh come on," and then held her firmly while he kissed her on the side of her mouth for an uncomfortably long moment."

    That's sexual assault.

    "Jessica Leeds told the New York Times that she was seated next to Trump in the first-class cabin of an airplane in the early 1980s when he lifted the armrest between them and began groping her breasts and trying to put his hand up her skirt. "

    That's sexual assault.

    "Mindy McGillivray told the Palm Beach Post that Trump groped her buttocks when she attended an event at Mar-a-Lago in 2003. Then 23, McGillivray said the incident occurred as she stood with a photographer friend who was working at the event, a concert by Ray Charles. She said Trump gave her a "pretty good nudge — more of a grab" at the event as she stood in a group of people. The photographer, Ken Davidoff, confirmed to the Palm Beach Post that McGillivray immediately told him that Trump had grabbed her. Trump's campaign has denied the account."

    That's sexual assault.

    "In an article posted to the website of People magazine, Natasha Stoynoff wrote that she was a reporter for the magazine assigned to the Trump beat when she visited Trump's Florida estate, Mar-a-Lago, in December 2005 to write a story about his first anniversary with wife Melania. She wrote that while Melania was upstairs changing, Trump pushed her against a wall and kissed her, "forcing his tongue down my throat."

    That's sexual assault.

    "Karena Virginia, 45, a yoga instructor from New Jersey, appeared at a news conference with lawyer Allred on Oct. 20 to accuse Trump of groping her in 1998. She said she encountered Trump outside the U.S. Open tennis tournament, while both were waiting to be picked up by town cars. She had never met Trump but said he began commenting on her appearance to a group of men before approaching her, putting his arm around her and reaching down to touch her breast."

    That's sexual assault.

    "A former contestant on the television show The Apprentice, Zervos held a news conference alongside Allred, the famed women's rights lawyer, Gloria on Oct. 14 to accuse Trump of aggressively kissing her and groping her breasts during a 2007 meeting that took place when she sought a job at the Trump Organization."

    That's sexual assault.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    http://www.tampabay.com/news/politic...ump-of/2299905

    "Kristin Anderson told the Washington Post that Trump put his hand up her skirt, touching her vagina through her underwear, during a brief encounter in a Manhattan nightclub in the early 1990s."

    That's sexual assault.

    "In one 1992 incident, Harth alleged, Trump put his hand up her skirt to her crotch under a table while dining with her and her boyfriend. In 1993, she alleged that while giving her a tour of Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach, he pushed her against a wall of the room being used as daughter Ivanka's bedroom and began kissing her."

    That's sexual assault.

    "About 1997, Cathy Heller told the Guardian that she was attending a Mother's Day brunch at Mar-a-Lago when she was introduced to Trump, who she said grabbed her and moved to kiss her on the mouth. She said she leaned back to avoid him, but Trump exclaimed "Oh come on," and then held her firmly while he kissed her on the side of her mouth for an uncomfortably long moment."

    That's sexual assault.

    "Jessica Leeds told the New York Times that she was seated next to Trump in the first-class cabin of an airplane in the early 1980s when he lifted the armrest between them and began groping her breasts and trying to put his hand up her skirt. "

    That's sexual assault.

    "Mindy McGillivray told the Palm Beach Post that Trump groped her buttocks when she attended an event at Mar-a-Lago in 2003. Then 23, McGillivray said the incident occurred as she stood with a photographer friend who was working at the event, a concert by Ray Charles. She said Trump gave her a "pretty good nudge — more of a grab" at the event as she stood in a group of people. The photographer, Ken Davidoff, confirmed to the Palm Beach Post that McGillivray immediately told him that Trump had grabbed her. Trump's campaign has denied the account."

    That's sexual assault.

    "In an article posted to the website of People magazine, Natasha Stoynoff wrote that she was a reporter for the magazine assigned to the Trump beat when she visited Trump's Florida estate, Mar-a-Lago, in December 2005 to write a story about his first anniversary with wife Melania. She wrote that while Melania was upstairs changing, Trump pushed her against a wall and kissed her, "forcing his tongue down my throat."

    That's sexual assault.

    "Karena Virginia, 45, a yoga instructor from New Jersey, appeared at a news conference with lawyer Allred on Oct. 20 to accuse Trump of groping her in 1998. She said she encountered Trump outside the U.S. Open tennis tournament, while both were waiting to be picked up by town cars. She had never met Trump but said he began commenting on her appearance to a group of men before approaching her, putting his arm around her and reaching down to touch her breast."

    That's sexual assault.

    "A former contestant on the television show The Apprentice, Zervos held a news conference alongside Allred, the famed women's rights lawyer, Gloria on Oct. 14 to accuse Trump of aggressively kissing her and groping her breasts during a 2007 meeting that took place when she sought a job at the Trump Organization."

    That's sexual assault.
    Some of those I would describe as assault, so I guess my initial post was wrong, I wasn't aware of the details of all of them. My mind focused on the last one you posted, since it was the most recent and I heard her giving this interview live. She was not forced there, she was not held against her own will, he stopped when she made it clear she did not want his advances. Does it suck that she thought Trump was going to make her rich and he didn't? Sure. Look, sexuality is used by a lot of people to get what they want. She may not use it, but a lot of woman do. There are cases of men using sex to their advantage as well. I'm quite sure, that in a billionaires world, sex is traded as a commodity. If this had happened to her in an office building, she might have a case... but she went to the mans hotel room ffs. It's also peculiar that her "story" about unwanted sexual advances included her describing all of the DNC talking points against Trump. Why would she describe during her account of "sexual assault" that Donald Trump offered to help her commit tax fraud/evasion?

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwal View Post
    Some of those I would describe as assault, so I guess my initial post was wrong, I wasn't aware of the details of all of them. My mind focused on the last one you posted, since it was the most recent and I heard her giving this interview live. She was not forced there, she was not held against her own will, he stopped when she made it clear she did not want his advances. Does it suck that she thought Trump was going to make her rich and he didn't? Sure. Look, sexuality is used by a lot of people to get what they want. She may not use it, but a lot of woman do. There are cases of men using sex to their advantage as well. I'm quite sure, that in a billionaires world, sex is traded as a commodity. If this had happened to her in an office building, she might have a case... but she went to the mans hotel room ffs. It's also peculiar that her "story" about unwanted sexual advances included her describing all of the DNC talking points against Trump. Why would she describe during her account of "sexual assault" that Donald Trump offered to help her commit tax fraud/evasion?
    Walking into someone's hotel room doesn't mean they get to sexually assault you.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Walking into someone's hotel room doesn't mean they get to sexually assault you.
    By no means does it. However, it shows that this was a private, intimate meeting. This was not a public meeting, this was not a meeting in a "business" setting. She wasn't an employee of his. And it's very hard to prove your intent of meeting him, when you're meeting him in a private intimate setting, where as you could have requested a business setting.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwal View Post
    By no means does it. However, it shows that this was a private, intimate meeting. This was not a public meeting, this was not a meeting in a "business" setting. She wasn't an employee of his. And it's very hard to prove your intent of meeting him, when you're meeting him in a private intimate setting, where as you could have requested a business setting.
    I've met a lot of women in private. I've never started groping them without warning. If you do that, you might want to recalibrate your understanding of sexual assault.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Why won't he release the full, unedited videos?
    Do you think the guy fired for inciting violence at Trump rallies over an edited video?

  17. #357
    Deleted
    I'm laughing how people are saying "well, it must be fake, because it's O'Keefe"
    So what if it's fucking O'Keefe. Didn't they say what they did in the video? This thread is full of AD HOMINEMS (targeting O'Keefe), but it's nothing special, liberals usually resort to logical fallacies when they're losing.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Do you think the guy fired for inciting violence at Trump rallies over an edited video?
    Yes, actually. It's pretty common to fire employees when they're involved in a scandal, whether it's a fictitious scandal or not. The bad press isn't worth keeping them on, usually, even if they've done nothing wrong.

    Again, we won't know until we have the full, unedited videos. But O'Keefe is unlikely to release those until after the election, otherwise his bullshit would be confirmed even sooner.

    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    I'm laughing how people are saying "well, it must be fake, because it's O'Keefe"
    So what if it's fucking O'Keefe. Didn't they say what they did in the video? This thread is full of AD HOMINEMS (targeting O'Keefe), but it's nothing special, liberals usually resort to logical fallacies when they're losing.
    "So what" is that he's been shown to lie through his teeth multiple times already, leading to financial penalties for doing so.

    If he wants people to believe him, he can release the full, unedited videos.

  19. #359
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yes, actually. It's pretty common to fire employees when they're involved in a scandal, whether it's a fictitious scandal or not. The bad press isn't worth keeping them on, usually, even if they've done nothing wrong.

    Again, we won't know until we have the full, unedited videos. But O'Keefe is unlikely to release those until after the election, otherwise his bullshit would be confirmed even sooner.



    "So what" is that he's been shown to lie through his teeth multiple times already, leading to financial penalties for doing so.

    If he wants people to believe him, he can release the full, unedited videos.
    How is he lying? Is he making them say they're frauds committing crimes?
    Oh, you mean.. he didn't release that 5 second part BEFORE it where they say "this is all hypothetical, okay, guys"?

    Don't be ridiculous.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yes, actually. It's pretty common to fire employees when they're involved in a scandal, whether it's a fictitious scandal or not. The bad press isn't worth keeping them on, usually, even if they've done nothing wrong.

    Again, we won't know until we have the full, unedited videos. But O'Keefe is unlikely to release those until after the election, otherwise his bullshit would be confirmed even sooner.



    "So what" is that he's been shown to lie through his teeth multiple times already, leading to financial penalties for doing so.

    If he wants people to believe him, he can release the full, unedited videos.
    How do you edit a video to make someone say what he said without jump cuts?

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