PvP Lost Some Meaning

[Sunlighthell]

Same could be said about your argument and that moronic tweet. Not only are you complaining about a game, you're scapegoating a single person thinking he is SOLELY responsible for pvp. Rework what you're trying to say, and drop the personal attacks and you might get taken seriously.

First. Tweet he quoted isn't mine.
Second. He is the leader of team. Team responsible for pvp and pvp balance in genereal. They failed to deliver in many ways and continue to fail on everything (nerf already weak classes, don't touch op ones, they introduced pvp templates but barely touch them instead they deliver nerfs via full spell rework like it was always, not able to deliver "high mobility lower damage" actually classes with highest mobility do shit ton of dmg while immobile ones do pathetic damage, pvp gearing and rewards, no communication with community, bias, conditional macroses not working with pvp talents, etc)
Yes it's his fault that his team is unable to deliver.

[Himora]

Plenty of old school players have come back just for PvP, it's also being supported on streams quite heavily, comparatively to previous expansions, just for PvP and the arena tournament has had very high viewings.

So no, it isn't.

Again your problem's don't appear to be with actual PvP but with the progression system, or lack of it now you have all your talents. That's a systems design issue not a PvP issue.

https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game...0of%20Warcraft the highest pvp stream currently has 62 viewers. even swifty is doing mythic+.


"the arena tournament has had very high viewings." it was a LoL worlds waiting room.

[Cempa]

Its always wise to consider the customer experience also keeping in mind WoW is played around the world .. That means many different cultures and languages .. So WoW needs to decide what it wants to be and what its values are .. Legion changed that with a new 'value' preposition but 7.1 shows they are heading back and giving customers more clarity and a clearer path to gearing ..

Forcing people to any one part of the game is not wise .. By 'forcing' I mean from the pov of the player have it so its far easier to 'gain that wow moment' ..

I still think that time played is time played regardless of PvP / PvE and the only difference in terms of who gets what ilvl is NOT LUCK but how much team work is needed .. So 25 man Mythic highest ilvl in the game FOR SURE .. +2400 rating HIGHEST ilvl in the game FOR SURE with stat weighting more on surviving PvP burst ..

From that point decide how much 'weaker' do you want PvP gear to get as you go down the ranks .. PvE is much easier because its less ranks and you have bosses that are scripted ..

LASTLY: Allow room for crafting to make really cool and powerful gear .. Please spend more time on 'game economy' aspect of MMO's .. trading and gathering and crafting has been ignored by Blizz .. While not completely ignored it holds so much potential for FUN ..

Can PvP play a role in RP PvP crafting?

So a way to progress crafting while engaging (even if partly) in PvP to craft PvP items and consumables?

Crafting should also play a HUGE role is transmogs ...

[xindralol]

So, anyone have data on how participation in PvP is doing? My gut feeling is it's down a lot (I have done no PvP in Legion except for some WQs, which did not involve actual PvP).

Check arenamate on rated PvP ... it's way down but that has never stopped Blizzard.

[Sunlighthell]

They buffed already op assassination rogues in 7.1 while nerfing weak and already nerfed since pre-patch affliction to the ground. How can you say that Holinka's team is good at their job?

[rda]

Check arenamate on rated PvP ... it's way down but that has never stopped Blizzard.

It's unclear what the new numbers returned by their API are (cutoffs are now per-faction, but the numbers for A and H are the exact same, that can't be right), however, even if we assume that we have to add the two equal values they are returning together, the proverbial "ladder collapse" is already there.

I mean, yes, the season will continue for a couple more months, but it's already two months in, and...

3v3 total participants / EU: WoD season 1 = 320k players, Legion season 1 right now = 227k players.
RBG total participants / EU: WoD season 1 = 162k players, Legion season 1 right now = 37k players (LOL).

And if their API returns a composite number for both factions, and we have to divide numbers for Legion by 2, well...

[Deleted]

https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game...0of%20Warcraft the highest pvp stream currently has 62 viewers. even swifty is doing mythic+.


"the arena tournament has had very high viewings." it was a LoL worlds waiting room.

Actually there are quite a few pvp streamers that are on really often with a good amount of viewers: ziqo, venruki, xaryu, maldiva, cdew, joefernandes, pshero are some examples. Who the fuck cares about swify and his oneshot bullshit for kids lol.

Of course LoL worlds have all the viewers, it's the biggest eSport ever.

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They buffed already op assassination rogues in 7.1 while nerfing weak and already nerfed since pre-patch affliction to the ground. How can you say that Holinka's team is good at their job?

Affliction was already good, and it's being changed, not "nerfed". They're nerfing UA stacking and buffing everything else.

[Livevil]

It's unclear what the new numbers returned by their API are (cutoffs are now per-faction, but the numbers for A and H are the exact same, that can't be right), however, even if we assume that we have to add the two equal values they are returning together, the proverbial "ladder collapse" is already there.

I mean, yes, the season will continue for a couple more months, but it's already two months in, and...

3v3 total participants / EU: WoD season 1 = 320k players, Legion season 1 right now = 227k players.
RBG total participants / EU: WoD season 1 = 162k players, Legion season 1 right now = 37k players (LOL).

And if their API returns a composite number for both factions, and we have to divide numbers for Legion by 2, well...

The rankings api doesnt return a faction so the number of the lowest ranked player is from both factions combined. Ergo there are 113529 EU/84282 US characters above 1000 rating currently. The fact that is even lower than wod s2 when the game had lost 50% of the subscribers and was at an all time low, shows how garbage is the current pvp system/implementation.

[Deleted]

Still absolutely no worthwhile rewards for the majority of people who PvP (I.E. - non-rated players) at endgame.. And almost nothing worthwhile for about 90+% on the ladder.

Looks like you'll be able to get 840+ stuff from normal BGs. What ilvl do you expect from the pvp equivalent of raid finder? If you want to get higher than 840+ you'll have to do "organized" stuff like rated arena/bg, just like in PVE you have to raid or do mythic+.

You can get heroic raid ilvl gear from 1800 rating, which is fairly easy. If you can't even reach that rating you can still get normal raid ilvl from 1500 or something, and that's like the bottom of the ladder

[rda]

The rankings api doesnt return a faction so the number of the lowest ranked player is from both factions combined. Ergo there are 113529 EU/84282 US characters above 1000 rating currently. The fact that is even lower than wod s2 when the game had lost 50% of the subscribers and was at an all time low, shows how garbage is the current pvp system/implementation.

Well, if the 113k for 3v3 and 17k for RBG is really the sum of it for both A and H (which it very well might be), it's not far from being just Holinka and streamers playing.

It's significantly worse than the worst season in WoD, which was the worst expansion for PVP in terms of numbers, as you say (its numbers: 155k and 80k). So...

Total success. Time to give Holinka a medal.

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Looks like you'll be able to get 840+ stuff from normal BGs. What ilvl do you expect from the pvp equivalent of raid finder?

840 is nothing to write home about and he (and many others) "expected" to eventually be able to get the best gear one can get for PVP, doing that PVP (yes, in random BGs, in "the equivalent of raid finder"), like it was with conquest gear. Not sure what's so hard to understand.

[Deleted]

840 is nothing to write home about and he (and many others) "expected" to eventually be able to get the best gear one can get for PVP, doing that PVP (yes, in random BGs, in "the equivalent of raid finder"), like it was with conquest gear. Not sure what's so hard to understand.

People expecting 880 from random BGs is hard to understand tbh. If you want good gear you'll have to earn it.

[rda]

People expecting 880 from random BGs is hard to understand tbh. If you want good gear you'll have to earn it.

I repeat: people used to get best gear for PVP by doing that PVP with conquest gear. Yeah, imagine that. It was great. It worked for at least three expansions. It was nearly the only thing they managed to get right regarding PVP in those expansions (the close second was related: conquest catch-up).

You can see how good the current system is from participation numbers. (It is horrible.)

[Deleted]

I repeat: people used to get best gear for PVP by doing that PVP with conquest gear. Yeah, imagine that. It was great. It worked for at least three expansions. It was nearly the only thing they managed to get right regarding PVP in those expansions (the close second was related: conquest catch-up).

You can see how good the current system is from participation numbers. (It is horrible.)

Well now pvp gear and pve gear are the same, so they obviously can't give you the best gear for doing shit. And it doesn't matter because a 30 ilvl difference is like 3% stats. That difference is basically nothing in BGs, and if you want to push rating and you can't get to 1700, 3% stats is the least of your worries.

[Osmeric]

Well now pvp gear and pve gear are the same, so they obviously can't give you the best gear for doing shit. And it doesn't matter because a 30 ilvl difference is like 3% stats. That difference is basically nothing in BGs, and if you want to push rating and you can't get to 1700, 3% stats is the least of your worries.

The point isn't that you don't need the gear for PvP. The point is that you don't the need the gear, period. PvP is a game system without significant reward. In particular, it no longer assists in gearing for the rest of the game. And surprise surprise, when the carrots go missing so do the players.

[Daan]

PvP is dead! Yes, it was dead before, but now it's more dead (and I never thought that this is possible).

[rda]

Well now pvp gear and pve gear are the same, so they obviously can't give you the best gear for doing shit. And it doesn't matter because a 30 ilvl difference is like 3% stats. That difference is basically nothing in BGs, and if you want to push rating and you can't get to 1700, 3% stats is the least of your worries.

"Well now pvp gear and pve gear are the same, so they obviously can't ..." - who asked for that? Not me.

3% matter, as well as 2% and 1%. Power difference from gear might be less of a worry than power difference from artifact, but it absolutely matters. If you had those extra 3%, you'd have been 300-400 MMR higher, conservatively (need more data for the exact number, but the ballpark is correct, I believe).

[Deleted]

The point isn't that you don't need the gear for PvP. The point is that you don't the need the gear, period. PvP is a game system without significant reward. In particular, it no longer assists in gearing for the rest of the game. And surprise surprise, when the carrots go missing so do the players.

It does assist in gearing for the rest of the game, you get 840+ even if you're the worst of players. I don't get your point anyway, you think people only play pvp to get gear for pve?

BTW I'm getting 880, 875 and 870 pieces of gear next week. That does sound like a significant reward that will help me in the rest of the game. And yes, few players will get 880 from pvp, but that's true for pve too.

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"Well now pvp gear and pve gear are the same, so they obviously can't ..." - who asked for that? Not me.

3% matter, as well as 2% and 1%. Power difference from gear might be less of a worry than power difference from artifact, but it absolutely matters. If you had those extra 3%, you'd have been 300-400 MMR higher, conservatively (need more data for the exact number, but the ballpark is correct, I believe).

WTF are you smoking dude? 3% stats is 400 MMR? So if someone in previous expansions was at 2k MMR and they upgraded a piece of gear, they magically shot up to 2k4? 3% is a laughable amount, gear might as well not exist in Legion PVP. When you level a new alt you worry about AP, not gear.

[Fkiolaris]

The point isn't that you don't need the gear for PvP. The point is that you don't the need the gear, period. PvP is a game system without significant reward. In particular, it no longer assists in gearing for the rest of the game. And surprise surprise, when the carrots go missing so do the players.

The fact that you have to explain the bold part again and again to anyone playing WoW (or any other MMORPG) simply shows the level of blind following Blizzard has. It's pretty simple boys and girls, all MMOs run on their reward systems. Any and every modern MMO that gets that part wrong is at a massive disadvantage, which is why you see such reverse of trends and systems like what Blizzard is doing with the PvP rewards (and that's not enough, hence if they do want to keep PvP alive they will do more and soon enough).

[rda]

WTF are you smoking dude? 3% stats is 400 MMR? So if someone in previous expansions was at 2k MMR and they upgraded a piece of gear, they magically shot up to 2k4? 3% is a laughable amount, gear might as well not exist in Legion PVP. When you level a new alt you worry about AP, not gear.

Mate, what do you think the difference in MMR was between honor and conquest? I'll tell you, a completely average guy in conquest would destroy a glad in honor. We are talking about more than 1k MMR in that glads who would later end up at 2800 were losing left and right to teams at 1800 doing their conquest catch up - that's after they already had some conquest pieces. Look up an archived version of some climbing stream if you don't believe me, the win streaks are stopping at about 1500-1600, it's win-lose-lose-win from there. It's fine, nobody cares, because it's just gearing right, but you can see the difference the gear makes.

And what was the difference in terms of stats? Why, let me enlighten you, since you appear not to know or not to remember. It was about 10%. Surprise, right?

So, yeah, 300 MMR for 3% is about right.

[Deleted]

Mate, what do you think the difference in MMR was between honor and conquest? I'll tell you, a completely average guy in conquest would destroy a glad in honor. We are talking about more than 1k MMR in that glads who would later end up at 2800 were losing left and right to teams at 1800 doing their conquest catch up - that's after they already had some conquest pieces. Look up an archived version of some climbing stream if you don't believe me, the win streaks are stopping at about 1500-1600, it's win-lose-lose-win from there. It's fine, nobody cares, because it's just gearing right, but you can see the difference the gear makes.

And what was the difference in terms of stats? Why, let me enlighten you, since you appear not to know or not to remember. It was about 10%. Surprise, right?

So, yeah, 300 MMR for 3% is about right.

Lol exactly, there were huge stat differences in the old gear system, they were closer to 50% than 10% or 3%. Those were truly insurmountable advantages. 3% is just a completely irrelevant. Please tell someone with a brain that if you had 3% more stats you would be 400 MMR higher and watch them laugh in your face.