No Good Deed Goes Unpunished

[Deleted]

As soon as you linked Preach as a "Great Resource" it was time to close the tread.
Really doesn't matter what else you wrote.

[ComputerNerd]

This is to be expected when people are given high item level gear for little to no effort. They have the appearance of being accomplished but in reality RNG inflates their item level and stats. At this point in the expansion there's so many people like this it's a struggle to deal with them. You can tell them to get better but they either can't, or won't improve because to them it's just a game, or even in some cases not their keystone so why should they care?

So what this actually means is that players are upset we can't make a snap judgement on the bare minimum of information, such as item level.

[tratra]

haha bringing out preach on top while you preach :P

Well whilst I short of agree with you I have to say that the mythic+ system is focused towards premade groups and the higher you get the more premade you need to be.

People can't expect to just go and roflstomp +10 - +15. Or even pug it that easily. I've pugged +10 and over on pugs but that was due to people knowing what they are doing. I was obviously taking a high risk running with people I don't know.

I think the only thing blizzard has to do is come out and say, don't expect to be clearing higher mythic+ unless you are on a party that you know about and you wipe enough with them to know each other etc and progress.

All and all I don't like the titanforged gear at all its absolutely crap, am a very casual player and only have 2 mythic bosses cleared and have mythic+15 achie although I haven't ran as much just have good groups and am sitting on 881 ilvl (876 equipped). I think its absolutely rubbish that I have the same ilvl gear as people that play way more than me and they've been clearing mythic EN every week etc. I just can't justify that system at all, they introduced way too much rng to the game it feels like a casino.

[Deleted]

And now you see why random gear upgrades are bad for the game. *bows*

[kojinshugi]

Hate to break it to you... but it is just a game...

Tennis is just a game, would you want to play doubles with someone who brings a ping pong paddle and spends 80% of their time on the court on their phone?

The "it's just a game" thing is a cliche used by lazy, inconsiderate slackers who don't seem to understand that in a cooperative multiplayer game, you are not free to do whatever you want. The reason to play team-based games is because you enjoy teamwork and like to contribute to a collective effort. Or, at the very least, you are competitive and want to impress everyone with your performance. Either motivation works because the result is people doing their part as best they can.

The "it's just a game" people either view group content as just another perfunctory grind to get the Skinner Box to spit out a reward, and the other people in the group are basically an unfortunate hindrance, or they're brats who have replaced personal responsibility and a desire to improve with a rationalization that "numbers are for elitists". Either way, the common theme is that they lack the basic level of empathy it takes to understand that your teammates are human beings trying to have fun in their limited spare time, and a slacker who's slowing them down or causing wipes is reducing other people's enjoyment of the game.

And yes, there are genuinely people whose skill ceiling is knee-level, to put it mildly. Personally, I am patient with those people and try to help them improve, but that's for social raids within guilds or normal dungeons.

[Deleted]

Tennis is just a game, would you want to play doubles with someone who brings a ping pong paddle and spends 80% of their time on the court on their phone?

The "it's just a game" thing is a cliche used by lazy, inconsiderate slackers who don't seem to understand that in a cooperative multiplayer game, you are not free to do whatever you want. The reason to play team-based games is because you enjoy teamwork and like to contribute to a collective effort. Or, at the very least, you are competitive and want to impress everyone with your performance. Either motivation works because the result is people doing their part as best they can.

The "it's just a game" people either view group content as just another perfunctory grind to get the Skinner Box to spit out a reward, and the other people in the group are basically an unfortunate hindrance, or they're brats who have replaced personal responsibility and a desire to improve with a rationalization that "numbers are for elitists". Either way, the common theme is that they lack the basic level of empathy it takes to understand that your teammates are human beings trying to have fun in their limited spare time, and a slacker who's slowing them down or causing wipes is reducing other people's enjoyment of the game.

And yes, there are genuinely people whose skill ceiling is knee-level, to put it mildly. Personally, I am patient with those people and try to help them improve, but that's for social raids within guilds or normal dungeons.

Such BS. Unless you meet my standards, which mean jack shit, don't join me unless I allow you into my 'lets help the needy' raids?

The problem with the internet is it enables people to find similar minded people and reinforce their opinions. Which they then believes validates it. If you want to play an MMO, one which has the only entry requirement of subbing each month, you can not demand anything.

Challenging content in wow has always demanded that you play with people you know. Don't like that, go play nightmare/hard/whatever in a solo game.

And it is just a game, you will never be right arguing its not.

[Ranger382]

Uh , hey.... you people know this is a game right??? I mean. This is most likely no ones career.... No one is getting paid to play this game...right? Who the hell cares ? I am truly amazed that the OP typed out such a response. I am even more amazed that people are agreeing with him. Time to turn off your computers go outside, spend time with your dog ( I can only assume your people dont have any human friends). When you do log in have fun playing. And if you take the game that seriously where you are upset how people get gear or dont "interrupt" the boss at the right time, then you most likely are going to live in your step dads basement for the rest of your life.

[Jewsco]

Football is a game too, but one is supposed to have some running skills for it, right?

Yet is everyone skilled the same or are some better than others?
Last I checked in everything in life some are better than others and if one wants perfect runs maybe a better idea to run these with known people and guilds instead of counting on some random person being good.

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Tennis is just a game, would you want to play doubles with someone who brings a ping pong paddle and spends 80% of their time on the court on their phone?

The "it's just a game" thing is a cliche used by lazy, inconsiderate slackers who don't seem to understand that in a cooperative multiplayer game, you are not free to do whatever you want. The reason to play team-based games is because you enjoy teamwork and like to contribute to a collective effort. Or, at the very least, you are competitive and want to impress everyone with your performance. Either motivation works because the result is people doing their part as best they can.

The "it's just a game" people either view group content as just another perfunctory grind to get the Skinner Box to spit out a reward, and the other people in the group are basically an unfortunate hindrance, or they're brats who have replaced personal responsibility and a desire to improve with a rationalization that "numbers are for elitists". Either way, the common theme is that they lack the basic level of empathy it takes to understand that your teammates are human beings trying to have fun in their limited spare time, and a slacker who's slowing them down or causing wipes is reducing other people's enjoyment of the game.

And yes, there are genuinely people whose skill ceiling is knee-level, to put it mildly. Personally, I am patient with those people and try to help them improve, but that's for social raids within guilds or normal dungeons.

Risk one takes if they choose to do something with a random person. Personally I would find that hilarious but I don't play tennis much except for fun and if I wanted to play more seriously I would find another person or persons with that same mentality almost as if that is what a guild can be used for in the game now.
Who would of thought?

[cuafpr]

Football is a game too, but one is supposed to have some running skills for it, right?

not really depends on the lvl you want to play.. backyard fun who cares... NFL sure. mix the two up and you end up with an LFR +8 on the field.. .

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Well, I understand your point, but players who read long posts on this forum and are willing to do the research to improve are not the players who need it.

also this.. most of this "bads" you are talking about... either don't know even mmo-c exist and/or don't care. they long have their fun and leave. Some *gasp* probably dont even run DPS meters or mods....

[unbound]

TBH, this isn't new at all. Shortly before I quit during WoD, I remember barely making it into some groups base on my item level, and I massively outperformed everyone else in the group (mostly a guild run need supplement players).

Basically, this was always the problem with gearscore as many people argued when it started. A focus on gear ignores the player who has a far larger impact on their ability to perform than the gear itself. The problem, people ignored the arguments, and Blizz even (essentially) embraced the nonsense.

It is no different than playing golf. Sure, a superior club will make a difference in the hands of a professional, but give a superior club to a novice and you'll still be disappointed with the results.

[SirBeef]

Football is a game too, but one is supposed to have some running skills for it, right?

Then don't offer to carry or PuG randoms without vetting and expecting quality experiences. The vast majority of players suck at this game. Most don'thave the time nor care to research rotations and fights andjust play to have fun. Expecting everyone to adhere to the standards that raiders do is asinine IMO.

[Bad Management]

@OP You just need to understand, the majority of humanity are terrible at just about everything they do.
I've met so many TERRIBLE players over the years, and the worst part is they actually think they're good, these are the worst one's and the cancer of wow/community.

Then you have the poor souls, who don't read guides or anything like that, they just log on and go by reading tooltips and picking what sounds cool, these guys are actually the norm in wow, just so you know.

I would suggest running mythics (m+) with friends or guildies, people you know have mastered the super-difficult art of pressing a combination of 6-9 buttons at the correct time/order.
We're currently boosting people, we run with 4 people who know their shit, and can easily carry the 5th for 3 chests in 6-9 keys. Pretty good way of farming the gear you want, and the plebs get their runs done.

One run, the pleb died in Arcway +7, we didn't even bother ressing him, as him being dead made our run easier.

[IntellectuallyChallenged]

This is why I have done no more than three mythic dungeons and zero mythic+ dungeons. Raids beyond LFR? Nope, not happening. I haven't downed a single boss on normal or above. It's also why my item level will likely never be over 850 for the entirety of this expansion. Starting to regret buying it not because I don't like it, but because there's no point without progress.

[SirBeef]

Tennis is just a game, would you want to play doubles with someone who brings a ping pong paddle and spends 80% of their time on the court on their phone?

The "it's just a game" thing is a cliche used by lazy, inconsiderate slackers who don't seem to understand that in a cooperative multiplayer game, you are not free to do whatever you want. The reason to play team-based games is because you enjoy teamwork and like to contribute to a collective effort. Or, at the very least, you are competitive and want to impress everyone with your performance. Either motivation works because the result is people doing their part as best they can.

The "it's just a game" people either view group content as just another perfunctory grind to get the Skinner Box to spit out a reward, and the other people in the group are basically an unfortunate hindrance, or they're brats who have replaced personal responsibility and a desire to improve with a rationalization that "numbers are for elitists". Either way, the common theme is that they lack the basic level of empathy it takes to understand that your teammates are human beings trying to have fun in their limited spare time, and a slacker who's slowing them down or causing wipes is reducing other people's enjoyment of the game.

And yes, there are genuinely people whose skill ceiling is knee-level, to put it mildly. Personally, I am patient with those people and try to help them improve, but that's for social raids within guilds or normal dungeons.

Hate to break it to you but I am part of the "it's just a game" crowd but I care about knkwing my rotations, abilities, and fights. I just don't get overly upset whn things don't go well. Because it's just a game.

[Deleted]

You know you're SUPPOSED to ask people to link their mythic ursoc kill AND a keystone 10 item in addition to being ilvl 872+ right?

that way they have an idea of how to do their rotations and how 5man mythic+ work(bit different from raids)

not even joking for those that might think so.

[Ringthane]

Yeah, I agree. The post falls into the trap that all of these kinds of posts fall into, preaching to the choir.

@OP, No one has figured out how to get the people that you are talking about to listen after 12 years, because if they cared about improving, or even anything beyond what they are doing right this second, they would have already learned all of the information that you are trying to tell them.
The sad reality is that they don't care enough that they are being bad, because Blizzard has spent the past 8 years quashing any kind of personal accountability, since it is easier to keep the masses enthralled by the power fantasy and shiny things, than it is to teach them that in a world of ever increasing threat, you actually need to always be getting better to survive.
You really want to get people to change, figure out how to shove the information down their throats IN-GAME.

Or, once again, it's because most players don't care about being the best. They just want to... Wait for it...

Have fun.

Again I will say this: by your logic, everybody that picks up a baseball glove needs to be a Cy Young award winner. Well, in the real world, most of those people just want to go out and play a little ball, have a little fun, and relieve some of the stresses of their everyday lives. It's the same thing here.

It's why you find WoW in the gaming section. Because WoW is - believe it or not - a game. Always has been, always will be.

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Tennis is just a game, would you want to play doubles with someone who brings a ping pong paddle and spends 80% of their time on the court on their phone?

The "it's just a game" thing is a cliche used by lazy, inconsiderate slackers who don't seem to understand that in a cooperative multiplayer game, you are not free to do whatever you want. The reason to play team-based games is because you enjoy teamwork and like to contribute to a collective effort. Or, at the very least, you are competitive and want to impress everyone with your performance. Either motivation works because the result is people doing their part as best they can.

The "it's just a game" people either view group content as just another perfunctory grind to get the Skinner Box to spit out a reward, and the other people in the group are basically an unfortunate hindrance, or they're brats who have replaced personal responsibility and a desire to improve with a rationalization that "numbers are for elitists". Either way, the common theme is that they lack the basic level of empathy it takes to understand that your teammates are human beings trying to have fun in their limited spare time, and a slacker who's slowing them down or causing wipes is reducing other people's enjoyment of the game.

And yes, there are genuinely people whose skill ceiling is knee-level, to put it mildly. Personally, I am patient with those people and try to help them improve, but that's for social raids within guilds or normal dungeons.

Aaaaaand this is what I'm talking about.

[LongJohn]

big post, but pointless. lots of wasted time there.

[Avalos]

Being a warrior myself, I am forced to

These days I can't bring myself to read anything beyond "I am forced to" anymore.

[otro]

I thought that carries was self explanatory.... unless I missed something you want carries to perform?

Surely they can help, but you're there to literally carry him. Not expect em to perform at the level you think their ilvl should.

[Nefarious Tea]

I don't really want to be that guy, but you ARE taking mob type in dungeons into consideration when complaining about CC, right? I've had people bitch at me in Black Rook Hold that i'm not sheeping mobs. Well of course not. They're undead.