Why do casuals need gear?

[rda]

So you're saying that you don't want to grind rating, don't want to do challenging group content and still want the best gear?

*snickers*

As I say, if you think this system works so great, let's apply it to raids.

[Osmeric]

Getting best gear for PVP from PVP is only possible for 0.1% of the players. BY DESIGN. So, please stop with your fantasies.

Did you know that everyone playing can win a game of musical chairs if they just sit down fast enough?

[kary]

Be very careful when you make that argument, since someone getting BETTER gear also devalues the reward someone else gets. "Yes, you thought you were hot stuff, but look at him! You actually suck."

Carrying your logic forward would argue for elimination of the harder content with its better rewards, since that content devalues the game experience of the larger number of mediocre players.

It wouldn't.
It would make the same argument that we have been making, one of "more rewarding content exists, pursue it if you want to reap the rewards they offer"

I.e stfu or git gud.

[rda]

The rating system is the different difficulties and the bosses. You want heroic gear? Get gud and clear hc. You want Mythic Xavius gear? Get gud and kill him.

I do agree however the pvp system is stupid in general

No, that's two different systems. If you think they are the same, let's add ratings to PVE, like I suggest. Should make no difference if they are the same, yet we both know it will a landslide change (with all raiders unhappy).

Besides, if I want best gear for soloing? Have to do raids for some reason.

[Deleted]

I should absolutely get best shit ever for cracking nuts from cracking nuts. That's all I am saying.

(Again, if raiding gear was only best in raids, say, with drops having same base stats but big amounts of a special stat named "PVE Power" which would scale everything *in raids and nowhere else*, nobody wouldn't have complained. But it works differently, raiding gear is the best everywhere, so there are complaints.)

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Yes, I do, and it kind of follows from what I said about 0.1%. But since you aren't big on math, you have to reask.

Okay, i repects your opinion.
But i wont support.
And i hope to god they never implement what you are asking for.

[Thage]

Without upgrades, character progression stagnates. Stagnant character progression is what happened in Warlords of Draenor and it saw half the playerbase leave in six months. Legion is a direct response to the fact that world content and dungeons were pointless in Warlords of Draenor, leading to casual players feeling that there's nothing to do--not because the activities weren't there, but because they were unrewarding and offered nothing of value because raiders spent Mists of Pandaria complaining about being forced to do more than raid.

When Legion is billed as "play your way to progress," and world quests were trumpeted as a viable progression path all through alpha and beta, the OP of the quoted thread is right to point out that world quest progression hits an early wall compared to dungeons, crafting, and PvP. Furthermore, that doesn't address 'why' casuals 'need' gear (see above: it's a carrot on a stick that, when removed, led to Blizzard hastily creating Pathfinder in 6.2 as an overpowered reward to herd people into doing Apexis dailies and reputations, which saw completion rates below 15% of the entire playerbase prior to Pathfinder's introduction).

[rda]

Did you know that everyone playing can win a game of musical chairs if they just sit down fast enough?

Well, it's MMO-C, the number of folks who aren't parroting someone else's meaningless cliches like "get gud" is small, so it'd be silly to expect something in the way of math...

[kary]

As I say, if you think this system works so great, let's apply it to raids.

But this system is in for all pve.
Do harder content and you get better rewards. That's how the game has been since Vanilla.

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And if I want best gear for soloing? Have to do raids for some reason.

You want the best pve gear? do the hardest pve content, yes.

[Deleted]

And if I want best gear for soloing? Have to do raids for some reason.

"Soloing" should never be considered end-game. It's good that there's some solo activities for people that want to do it but soloing won't and shouldn't ever be the pinnacle of an MMO game. I don't mind at all if there are people that the only thing they wanna do in WoW is quests and solo stuff but the game shouldn't be developed around them at all.

There's numerous solo RPG games in the market that are actually much better than WoW in that aspect anyway.

Did you know that everyone playing can win a game of musical chairs if they just sit down fast enough?

Did you know that in a game when people play vs people someone HAS to lose? Shocking I know, where's the fun in that right? This god damn participation medal ideology has ruined everything tbh.

[Deleted]

No, that's two different systems.

Besides, if I want best gear for soloing? Have to do raids for some reason.

Then play Diablo?:O or Soloing what?

[Thage]

"Soloing" should never be considered end-game. It's good that there's some solo activities for people that want to do it but soloing won't and shouldn't ever be the pinnacle of an MMO game. I don't mind at all if there are people that the only thing they wanna do in WoW is quests and solo stuff but the game shouldn't be developed around them at all.

There's numerous solo RPG games in the market that are actually much better than WoW in that aspect anyway.

I completely fail to see the problem in making open-world content a viable endgame path, as it keeps players out in the world. Was not a consistent complaint about Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, and Warlords of Draenor centered on the fact that once you hit level cap, you mostly just camped out in a city and queued for dungeons and PvP until you were either geared for LFR or began joining raids? With WQs a viable endgame path, you get solo players out there keeping the world populated rather than just sitting in Dalaran queueing for LFD/R groups or queueing up for random BGs, which keeps the world feeling like a world and less like a single-player RPG on your way to level cap.

[rda]

When Legion is billed as "play your way to progress," and world quests were trumpeted as a viable progression path all through alpha and beta, the OP of the quoted thread is right to point out that world quest progression hits an early wall compared to dungeons, crafting, and PvP.

Yeah, I remember those wet fantasies regarding world quests doing their +5 ilvl thing on rewards all the way to mythic-level gear. It seemed too good to be true, and in the end it predictably ended with a brick wall. Positioned very low, too.

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Then play Diablo?:O or Soloing what?

Old raids.

[Vargas]

Why do raiders need gear?

I mean, if you're any good at the game you probably cleared normal EN with heroic dungeon level gear. You don't need better.

Besides, better gear makes the game too easy which you guys love to whine about. It also devalues your precious "accomplishments" that we're all supposed to give a damn about.

[rda]

"Soloing" should never be considered end-game.

Oh, really? Should I remind again that the main reason the vast majority of people do raids is not the difficulty and not the supposed fun, but just the gear? Way more people find fun in solo than in raids. Heck, nearly nobody raids for fun. Make raiding gear only good in raids and you'll see how empty they will be.

[kary]

Oh, really? Should I remind again that the main reason the vast majority of people do raids is not the difficulty and not the supposed fun, but just the gear? Way more people find fun in solo than in raids. Heck, nearly nobody raids for fun.

Do you just make shit up as you go along, bruh?

[Deleted]

I completely fail to see the problem in making open-world content a viable endgame path, as it keeps players out in the world. Was not a consistent complaint about Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, and Warlords of Draenor centered on the fact that once you hit level cap, you mostly just camped out in a city and queued for dungeons and PvP until you were either geared for LFR or began joining raids? With WQs a viable endgame path, you get solo players out there keeping the world populated rather than just sitting in Dalaran queueing for LFD/R groups or queueing up for random BGs, which keeps the world feeling like a world and less like a single-player RPG on your way to level cap.

Encouraging players to be in the open world is great and world quest do that, but if you make them end-game you discourage people from doing group content, which is what WoW has been about since day 1. Yes, theme park mmo, solo content, blablabla, but still group content is always the end-game of an mmo game.

Oh, really? Should I remind again that the main reason the vast majority of people do raids is not the difficulty and not the supposed fun, but just the gear? Way more people find fun in solo than in raids. Heck, nearly nobody raids for fun. Make raiding gear only good in raids and you'll see how empty they will be.

For a guy who claims he does solo content only you assume an awful lot about raiding. There are fuckloads of people raiding a few weeks before new patches/expansions hit that will make the gear irrelevant. Why do you think they do it if they don't enjoy it?

[Osmeric]

Did you know that in a game when people play vs people someone HAS to lose? Shocking I know, where's the fun in that right? This god damn participation medal ideology has ruined everything tbh.

In the investment world, this sort of desgn would be called a Ponzi Scheme.

An MMO based on competitive achievement is a ponzi scheme of the ego. By design, most players will fail to get the reward that the game is based on, and to the extent the ego reward was what they were looking for they will stop playing.

[rda]

But this system is in for all pve.
Do harder content and you get better rewards. That's how the game has been since Vanilla.

Great, great, let's apply the rating system to "all pve" like you say. Want to do it? Because you seem to be losing the point (no, that's not how the game has been since vanilla).

[anaxie]

Id get rid of most of that mishegoes as well. Fix sockets on rings,neck and headpiece. Dump TF and WF out the window. Remove versatility from necks and rings.

Well of course they should

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Then play Diablo?:O or Soloing what?

Jokes on you WoW is diablo now

[Deleted]

playing an mmo, wants gear. dont want to play in a big group with other ppl...

somtimes i wonder if there is some nextlevel idiotacy in ppl im starting to think so....