"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
No, that's two different systems. If you think they are the same, let's add ratings to PVE, like I suggest. Should make no difference if they are the same, yet we both know it will a landslide change (with all raiders unhappy).
Besides, if I want best gear for soloing? Have to do raids for some reason.
Last edited by rda; 2016-10-25 at 01:15 PM.
Without upgrades, character progression stagnates. Stagnant character progression is what happened in Warlords of Draenor and it saw half the playerbase leave in six months. Legion is a direct response to the fact that world content and dungeons were pointless in Warlords of Draenor, leading to casual players feeling that there's nothing to do--not because the activities weren't there, but because they were unrewarding and offered nothing of value because raiders spent Mists of Pandaria complaining about being forced to do more than raid.
When Legion is billed as "play your way to progress," and world quests were trumpeted as a viable progression path all through alpha and beta, the OP of the quoted thread is right to point out that world quest progression hits an early wall compared to dungeons, crafting, and PvP. Furthermore, that doesn't address 'why' casuals 'need' gear (see above: it's a carrot on a stick that, when removed, led to Blizzard hastily creating Pathfinder in 6.2 as an overpowered reward to herd people into doing Apexis dailies and reputations, which saw completion rates below 15% of the entire playerbase prior to Pathfinder's introduction).
Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!
"Soloing" should never be considered end-game. It's good that there's some solo activities for people that want to do it but soloing won't and shouldn't ever be the pinnacle of an MMO game. I don't mind at all if there are people that the only thing they wanna do in WoW is quests and solo stuff but the game shouldn't be developed around them at all.
There's numerous solo RPG games in the market that are actually much better than WoW in that aspect anyway.
Did you know that in a game when people play vs people someone HAS to lose? Shocking I know, where's the fun in that right? This god damn participation medal ideology has ruined everything tbh.
Last edited by mmoc6694d1218e; 2016-10-25 at 01:17 PM.
I completely fail to see the problem in making open-world content a viable endgame path, as it keeps players out in the world. Was not a consistent complaint about Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, and Warlords of Draenor centered on the fact that once you hit level cap, you mostly just camped out in a city and queued for dungeons and PvP until you were either geared for LFR or began joining raids? With WQs a viable endgame path, you get solo players out there keeping the world populated rather than just sitting in Dalaran queueing for LFD/R groups or queueing up for random BGs, which keeps the world feeling like a world and less like a single-player RPG on your way to level cap.
Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!
Yeah, I remember those wet fantasies regarding world quests doing their +5 ilvl thing on rewards all the way to mythic-level gear. It seemed too good to be true, and in the end it predictably ended with a brick wall. Positioned very low, too.
- - - Updated - - -
Old raids.
Why do raiders need gear?
I mean, if you're any good at the game you probably cleared normal EN with heroic dungeon level gear. You don't need better.
Besides, better gear makes the game too easy which you guys love to whine about. It also devalues your precious "accomplishments" that we're all supposed to give a damn about.
Oh, really? Should I remind again that the main reason the vast majority of people do raids is not the difficulty and not the supposed fun, but just the gear? Way more people find fun in solo than in raids. Heck, nearly nobody raids for fun. Make raiding gear only good in raids and you'll see how empty they will be.
Encouraging players to be in the open world is great and world quest do that, but if you make them end-game you discourage people from doing group content, which is what WoW has been about since day 1. Yes, theme park mmo, solo content, blablabla, but still group content is always the end-game of an mmo game.
For a guy who claims he does solo content only you assume an awful lot about raiding. There are fuckloads of people raiding a few weeks before new patches/expansions hit that will make the gear irrelevant. Why do you think they do it if they don't enjoy it?
Last edited by mmoc6694d1218e; 2016-10-25 at 01:26 PM.
In the investment world, this sort of desgn would be called a Ponzi Scheme.
An MMO based on competitive achievement is a ponzi scheme of the ego. By design, most players will fail to get the reward that the game is based on, and to the extent the ego reward was what they were looking for they will stop playing.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
playing an mmo, wants gear. dont want to play in a big group with other ppl...
somtimes i wonder if there is some nextlevel idiotacy in ppl im starting to think so....