7.1 talent changes, sad warlock!

[Cyclone Duke]

Demon Skin and Demonic Circle have swapped talent locations.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20335228#warlock
http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/warlock/destruction

Makes me very sad! While doing world/solo content, i'd have my demon skin for 20% shield on me, without it i die all the time, very very squishy! And I'd have burning rush, so I can have... some form of mobility to help me keep up with my friend moving target to target. Without burning rush we're just stuck hoofing it at 100% basic movespeed everywhere we go.

Dark Pact is required as a personal survivability cooldown in raids, so it essentially means that we're just trading away demon skin to get one of the terrible level 45 talents (Demonic Circle Teleport, terrible, terrible mortal coil, or mythic-only shadowfury).
Feels bad man - I'll miss being speedy while questing and I'll miss being tanky during raids.
Warlocks are intended to be a tankier, less mobile caster compared to the mage archetype, so it sucks for me to have this wonky movement talent replace the amazing demon skin, which is what really was at the heart of warlock tankiness in PvE, it was always there to soften or avoid a lot of pulsing AoE.

7.1 looks like an amazing patch, but dang these talent changes will have me salty for a while. Am I just complaining that "one of our talent tiers is now reasonably bad all-over for raiding" - when this is perhaps a thing other classes have in the first place?

[volrat]

I am wondering who is in charge of warlocks at Blizzard, they seem to miss the point everytime they try to make something.

[Deleted]

The change itself is okay, because warlock were quite tanky before 7.1

The real problem is no compensation elsewhere.

At one point you have taken everything away from a class and leave it a very dull and boring class. This point is looming closer for warlocks.

I get all the class fantasy and stuff, but with limited mobility, no baseline interrupt, no instant gap closer, no baseline movement speed increase, no baseline stun, no baseline instant cast for moving, no real damage immunity like ice block, divine shield, dispersion, whatever the hunter shell is called, and so on, it really feels a bit too castrated.

Let's hope they have something big in stores for warlock in the next patch

[tehdef]

The change itself is okay, because warlock were quite tanky before 7.1

The real problem is no compensation elsewhere.

At one point you have taken everything away from a class and leave it a very dull and boring class. This point is looming closer for warlocks.

I get all the class fantasy and stuff, but with limited mobility, no baseline interrupt, no instant gap closer, no baseline movement speed increase, no baseline stun, no baseline instant cast for moving, no real damage immunity like ice block, divine shield, dispersion, whatever the hunter shell is called, and so on, it really feels a bit too castrated.

Let's hope they have something big in stores for warlock in the next patch

So basically you're a caster juggernaut. What's the problem?

[volrat]

The change itself is okay, because warlock were quite tanky before 7.1

The real problem is no compensation elsewhere.

At one point you have taken everything away from a class and leave it a very dull and boring class. This point is looming closer for warlocks.

I get all the class fantasy and stuff, but with limited mobility, no baseline interrupt, no instant gap closer, no baseline movement speed increase, no baseline stun, no baseline instant cast for moving, no real damage immunity like ice block, divine shield, dispersion, whatever the hunter shell is called, and so on, it really feels a bit too castrated.

Let's hope they have something big in stores for warlock in the next patch

Boy, next patch is veeeeeery far away, and i strongly doubt there will be any good for locks.

- - - Updated - - -

So basically you're a caster juggernaut. What's the problem?

no, not actually, we were a tanky caster (and we should discuss about what fun it is) now we are just a squishy inefficent and crampled caster.(and totally boring to play too)

[Baconeggcheese]

Dark Pact is required as a personal survivability cooldown in raids,

I cleared all of mythic EN without ever swapping away from burning rush, so not exactly required.

Change does suck, but I've just been playing with dark pact and shadowfury on all the time to get used to it and honestly its not a big deal at all.

[Deleted]

So basically you're a caster juggernaut. What's the problem?

With 7.1 warlocks are defenitively no caster juggernauts. Especially Destruction is the opposite of a caster juggernaut. With cloth armor and no real defensive you are more like a glass cannon that does no competitive damage

[volrat]

I cleared all of mythic EN without ever swapping away from burning rush, so not exactly required.

Change does suck, but I've just been playing with dark pact and shadowfury on all the time to get used to it and honestly its not a big deal at all.

And here you are again, explaining to those unhappy with a change that they are wrong, because you cleared mythic, so who are we to discuss?

Pathetic, really.

[Reaper11b]

With 7.1 warlocks are defenitively no caster juggernauts. Especially Destruction is the opposite of a caster juggernaut. With cloth armor and no real defensive you are more like a glass cannon that does no competitive damage

Pretty sure damage is still competitive and you will still be more tanky than any other caster.
@bacon I think you made a new friend.

[Baconeggcheese]

Pretty sure damage is still competitive and you will still be more tanky than any other caster.

Dunno, think spriest might be able to step on our toes now that they gained a flat 10% dmg reduction. But yeah we'll still be plenty tanky.

[volrat]

Pretty sure damage is still competitive and you will still be more tanky than any other caster.
@bacon I think you made a new friend.

Mmmm, same person - new account or a colleague?

[Soulzar]

@bacon I think you made a new friend.

Lol, for real!.. I can't understand why Bacon would reference the hardest content with the highest incoming dmg as an example to compare our survivability...strange really ...

[Deleted]

Pretty sure damage is still competitive and you will still be more tanky than any other caster.
@bacon I think you made a new friend.

Demonology and Affliction yes.

Destruction no.

[Reaper11b]

Demonology and Affliction yes.

Destruction no.

How do you figure?

[Deleted]

I am wondering who is in charge of warlocks at Blizzard, they seem to miss the point everytime they try to make something.

I know, right? Warlocks been so bad for so many expansions in a row.

[Deleted]

Lol, for real!.. I can't understand why Bacon would reference the hardest content with the highest incoming dmg as an example to compare our survivability...strange really ...

All classes can survive the content. Even a class with not a single defensive cooldown, 0 armor and no mobility could be healed through mythic raids.
(I am not saying that bacon was carried through. He/She is probably a good player and deserved the spot in the raid)

But normally you really don't need any defensive cooldowns to survive. It helps yes, but it is not required.

[Baconeggcheese]

@bacon I think you made a new friend.

Yeah I've found a stray apparently.

[Deleted]

How do you figure?

Demonology has soul link and affliction uses drain life/ drain soul as a filler spell and it heals you for a huge amount.

Destruction has a mastery that is random. If it was a fixed numbers and not "up to" then it'd be way better.

[Deleted]

Baconeggcheese, do you have some logs to see how you manage it in there?
I find it okay (on Heroic and partly on Mythic, but just started attempting Nyt) to avoid too much damage, when I pay attention. So I could imagine it was true.
I am the opposite thought, going Dark Pact without Burning Rush, so I have sooo slow movement, but a shield for speciel occasions

[Deleted]

We still have soul leech giving a 15% shield, demon skin makes it 20% and adds extra regen to it. So we'll lose very little in most fights since our damage tops our shield up pretty well anyway. We'll suffer a bit in a constant damage scenario like Cenarius where we may want to take the extra regen from demon skin and lose dark pact but I wouldn't say the changes are the end of world, although I'd rather see demon skin baseline and add another talent.

I'm looking forward to having demonic circle back, but I'll admit it is a bit bitter since we used to have it baseline.