Ele shaman putting in WORK!

[Putin-Chan]

And all the work gave fuck all.. What a surprise.


"It's only alpha, wait until beta tuning pass"
"It's only beta, wait until prepatch"
"It's only prepatch, wait until expansion launch"
"It's only the start of the expansion, wait until raid tuning pass"
"It's only the first week of raids, wait until the world first race is over"
"It's only a couple weeks until the first patch, wait until the patch day"
"It's only the patch day, wait until the hotfixes"
"It's only the first hotfixes, wait until the new raid opens"
"It's only the opening week of the raid, wait until the world first race is over"
"It's only the second raid, wait until the next tier"
"It's only the second tuning pass, wait until the world first race is over"
"It's only the end of the second tier, wait until the tuning pass for the third one"
"It's only the start of the third tier, wait until the world first race is over"
"It's only the end of the last tier, wait until next expansion's alpha"

And repeat.

I also love how frost mages/ sv hunters/ outlaw rogue get buffs for almost every ability, compared to elemental's pathetic buff to their piss poor resource dump and slow.

[Riistov]

And all the work gave fuck all.. What a surprise.


"It's only alpha, wait until beta tuning pass"
"It's only beta, wait until prepatch"
"It's only prepatch, wait until expansion launch"
"It's only the start of the expansion, wait until raid tuning pass"
"It's only the first week of raids, wait until the world first race is over"
"It's only a couple weeks until the first patch, wait until the patch day"
"It's only the patch day, wait until the hotfixes"
"It's only the first hotfixes, wait until the new raid opens"
"It's only the opening week of the raid, wait until the world first race is over"
"It's only the second raid, wait until the next tier"
"It's only the second tuning pass, wait until the world first race is over"
"It's only the end of the second tier, wait until the tuning pass for the third one"
"It's only the start of the third tier, wait until the world first race is over"
"It's only the end of the last tier, wait until next expansion's alpha"

And repeat.

I also love how frost mages/ sv hunters/ outlaw rogue get buffs for almost every ability, compared to elemental's pathetic buff to their piss poor resource dump and slow.

^This

SO many times this.

I just don't understand why they keep doing this to Ele

[Putin-Chan]

^This

SO many times this.

I just don't understand why they keep doing this to Ele

Neither do I, I understood the forced butchering of survival and Demonology's output in WoD ,to try and lower player counts of the spec before revamping them, but I don't think blizzard would bother taking the time of thinking of a revamp for Elemental.

[Deleted]

As an enhancement shaman (always an enhancement shaman), I'd like to ask a question: Is it really that bad?

I ask, because the elemental shamans in our guild (raiding normal, slowly but steadily progressing through heroic) are doing quite well on DPS. They are never topping the meters like shadow priests and enhancement shamans currently do, but even if they are not in top three, they are competing with all other DPS classes at our gear level.

I know it's likely different in mythic raids and with higher ilevel, but I'm not personally seeing any need for buffs for PvE. But this is based on my own experience with three guildies who play elemental, and it is definitely not based on any actual knowledge of the spec.

Hence my question

[Raakel]

Basically what you're saying is "I play the better performaing spec and do more dmg with it, why do you guys (who play the underperforming spec) want a buff?"

Isn't that a bit weird?

[Aurora]

As an enhancement shaman (always an enhancement shaman), I'd like to ask a question: Is it really that bad?

I ask, because the elemental shamans in our guild (raiding normal, slowly but steadily progressing through heroic) are doing quite well on DPS. They are never topping the meters like shadow priests and enhancement shamans currently do, but even if they are not in top three, they are competing with all other DPS classes at our gear level.

I know it's likely different in mythic raids and with higher ilevel, but I'm not personally seeing any need for buffs for PvE. But this is based on my own experience with three guildies who play elemental, and it is definitely not based on any actual knowledge of the spec.

Hence my question

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10

That should explain it, also bearing in mind those specs below and slightly above Elemental are receiving significant buffs in 7.1 while ele is not. If your elementals are topping metres it's probably because they're better players than those around them, rank percentages from warcraftlogs should confirm that.

[Volitar]

Guys.. Elemental DPS needs to suck because we have Earthquake totem which can knock trash mobs down!!!!!

Here is an idea.. take away Earthquake totem and give me lavaburst a 25%+ damage increase.. you know when LB used to be feared by anyone you cast it on?

It hits like a wet noodle.

You can blame Ascendance for that and to a lesser extent Lava surge.

[Deleted]

where to i vote this up?

good job elemental shamans i'd love to vote up them all but i'm on EU

FUCK MAGES BUFF ELEMENTAL!!!!

Then you should post and vote on this EU thread : http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...3693548?page=1

[Deleted]

Basically what you're saying is "I play the better performaing spec and do more dmg with it, why do you guys (who play the underperforming spec) want a buff?"

Isn't that a bit weird?

You sure read a lot into "I play a different spec, I don't know much about your spec, please give me more information to better understand your issues".

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10

That should explain it, also bearing in mind those specs below and slightly above Elemental are receiving significant buffs in 7.1 while ele is not. If your elementals are topping metres it's probably because they're better players than those around them, rank percentages from warcraftlogs should confirm that.

Ah, I half expected that link.

These logs are only useful if you tweak the data a bit. For example, there's a difference between "All fights" and a specific boss fight. There's a difference between is it mythic or normal. There's a difference between item level for those statistics as well.

For example - sure, let's take "All bosses, mythic, all item levels" - in this case, elemental shamans are 4th from the bottom. But if we look at "Nythendra, normal, item level range 854-856" (which isn't unrealistic), you are 8th from the bottom. Still underperforming, sure, but not as bad off as before.

Simply looking at "All bosses, mythic, all item levels"-logs can quickly give the wrong idea. Someone might look at it and go "I'm in 830 gear, but this list says my class is supposed to suck, so that's why my damage is so low", when at that ilevel, an elemental shaman in LFR is actually listed at 7 from the top.

So my point is, there is a huge difference between ilevel 830 and ilevel 88x. There's a big difference between raiding LFR or raiding mythic. There is a big factor in the people you play with, how good they are, how well boss mechanics are executed and so on. And if we are only looking at "All bosses, mythic, all item levels" then we are not looking at data that represents the majority of the player base.

So forgetting the overall damage logs, how are YOU (all of you) seeing YOUR damage compared to the people you play with? And based off this, back to my original question: Is it really that bad?

Please, please, please note, that I am asking to get better insights in your issues. I'm not trying to create a shitstorm, and I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't be buffed. But I am not seeing the issues with the elemental shamans on my raid team - they are right where they should be. But it might very well be different for people on other difficulties, with different gear, playing with different people. But I'm not asking for logs - I'm asking for how you are doing compared to the people you play with

[Jotaux]

As an enhancement shaman (always an enhancement shaman), I'd like to ask a question: Is it really that bad?

I ask, because the elemental shamans in our guild (raiding normal, slowly but steadily progressing through heroic) are doing quite well on DPS. They are never topping the meters like shadow priests and enhancement shamans currently do, but even if they are not in top three, they are competing with all other DPS classes at our gear level.

I know it's likely different in mythic raids and with higher ilevel, but I'm not personally seeing any need for buffs for PvE. But this is based on my own experience with three guildies who play elemental, and it is definitely not based on any actual knowledge of the spec.

Hence my question

Yes its that bad, your elemental shamans are just better than your raid. You might look at their percentiles and say oh they are only 75th percentile while I'm 90 but you have to remember that they have a pool of maybe 6k elemental shamans overall while enhance has a pool of 16k overall and maybe 6k at the mythic level. Thats enough that being in the top 100 for them and the top 100 for you is like a 20 percentile difference.

I was elemental since BC and going to enhance is like night and day. I have never played enhance at a decent level and I'm having no issues topping meters in mythic.

[Darleth]

Rooting for you guys to get some buffs asap.
As someone who used to play and enjoy Ele, even if its just as a offspec, I'm just sad that the spec underperforms this badly.

[Menubrea]

You sure read a lot into "I play a different spec, I don't know much about your spec, please give me more information to better understand your issues".



Ah, I half expected that link.

These logs are only useful if you tweak the data a bit. For example, there's a difference between "All fights" and a specific boss fight. There's a difference between is it mythic or normal. There's a difference between item level for those statistics as well.

For example - sure, let's take "All bosses, mythic, all item levels" - in this case, elemental shamans are 4th from the bottom. But if we look at "Nythendra, normal, item level range 854-856" (which isn't unrealistic), you are 8th from the bottom. Still underperforming, sure, but not as bad off as before.

Simply looking at "All bosses, mythic, all item levels"-logs can quickly give the wrong idea. Someone might look at it and go "I'm in 830 gear, but this list says my class is supposed to suck, so that's why my damage is so low", when at that ilevel, an elemental shaman in LFR is actually listed at 7 from the top.

So my point is, there is a huge difference between ilevel 830 and ilevel 88x. There's a big difference between raiding LFR or raiding mythic. There is a big factor in the people you play with, how good they are, how well boss mechanics are executed and so on. And if we are only looking at "All bosses, mythic, all item levels" then we are not looking at data that represents the majority of the player base.

So forgetting the overall damage logs, how are YOU (all of you) seeing YOUR damage compared to the people you play with? And based off this, back to my original question: Is it really that bad?

Please, please, please note, that I am asking to get better insights in your issues. I'm not trying to create a shitstorm, and I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't be buffed. But I am not seeing the issues with the elemental shamans on my raid team - they are right where they should be. But it might very well be different for people on other difficulties, with different gear, playing with different people. But I'm not asking for logs - I'm asking for how you are doing compared to the people you play with

I agree that Mythic logs can be misleading, but not for the reasons you stated, but rather because of low sample size particularly for some bosses/specs, making the overall data possibly being more favourable towards X or Y spec. Although having low sample size for some specs already is a testimony towards the viability of the spec when it comes to progression content. No matter how you decide to look at it though, no matter what metrics you or anyone else use to justfiy their arguments, the bottom line is still the same. Elemental is a fair bit off being even middle of the pack, where as other bottom tier specs is at least given some meaningful attention.

The problem isn't even the gap between bottom and mid tier. It is that the top tier DPS is so far ahead, diminishing the value of other specs for any type of progression content, and then on top of that, refuse to nerf those top tier specs by some backwards-ass logic that it would be "unfair" for those who have invested so much time into being OP now being less OP. Funnily enough that argument don't seem to apply for the shit tier specs. What's worse? Being OP and then get reduced to less OP, or being weak and just stay that way without any explanation as to why or communication what so ever?

Celestalon happily chatting away on the Mage Discord, while we can't even get a damn blue response on our "massive" forum outcry.

[Amba]

Blizzard is buffing the elemental, the day you see that there is one elementary in the world of wow, slowly are becoming extinct, do not understand how the developers are handled but it seems they are doing their best to not have no more.

[Jinto]

As an enhancement shaman (always an enhancement shaman), I'd like to ask a question: Is it really that bad?

I ask, because the elemental shamans in our guild (raiding normal, slowly but steadily progressing through heroic) are doing quite well on DPS. They are never topping the meters like shadow priests and enhancement shamans currently do, but even if they are not in top three, they are competing with all other DPS classes at our gear level.

I know it's likely different in mythic raids and with higher ilevel, but I'm not personally seeing any need for buffs for PvE. But this is based on my own experience with three guildies who play elemental, and it is definitely not based on any actual knowledge of the spec.

Hence my question

Your elemental is likely just playing on a higher level than the rest of your raid.

[BannedForViews]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10

That should explain it, also bearing in mind those specs below and slightly above Elemental are receiving significant buffs in 7.1 while ele is not. If your elementals are topping metres it's probably because they're better players than those around them, rank percentages from warcraftlogs should confirm that.

Still better than Affliction.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...pec=Affliction

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...spec=Elemental

[Jotaux]

Still better than Affliction.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...pec=Affliction

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...spec=Elemental

You generally don't look at the top because it will be skewed by rng. Its also hard to guage where Affliction is at because you have a smaller pool of players (1k) compared to elementals (6k) which is pretty small as well.

[Nyel]

And all the work gave fuck all.. What a surprise.


"It's only alpha, wait until beta tuning pass"
"It's only beta, wait until prepatch"
"It's only prepatch, wait until expansion launch"
"It's only the start of the expansion, wait until raid tuning pass"
"It's only the first week of raids, wait until the world first race is over"
"It's only a couple weeks until the first patch, wait until the patch day"
"It's only the patch day, wait until the hotfixes"
"It's only the first hotfixes, wait until the new raid opens"
"It's only the opening week of the raid, wait until the world first race is over"
"It's only the second raid, wait until the next tier"
"It's only the second tuning pass, wait until the world first race is over"
"It's only the end of the second tier, wait until the tuning pass for the third one"
"It's only the start of the third tier, wait until the world first race is over"
"It's only the end of the last tier, wait until next expansion's alpha"

And repeat.

I also love how frost mages/ sv hunters/ outlaw rogue get buffs for almost every ability, compared to elemental's pathetic buff to their piss poor resource dump and slow.

Sad but true. Never ending story.

[Kazgrel]

Just wait for hotfixes, yo.

[BannedForViews]

You generally don't look at the top because it will be skewed by rng. Its also hard to guage where Affliction is at because you have a smaller pool of players (1k) compared to elementals (6k) which is pretty small as well.

I disagree. the top is going to give you a better indication of the maximum achievable result, assuming it isn't just one massive outlier. But if you look at the bottom of the top 10, affliction looks worse than ele. I'm not saying ele doesn't need buffed. I firmly believe everyone should be within 10-15% of each other. I'm just saying others have it pretty bad also.

[Jotaux]

I disagree. the top is going to give you a better indication of the maximum achievable result, assuming it isn't just one massive outlier. But if you look at the bottom of the top 10, affliction looks worse than ele. I'm not saying ele doesn't need buffed. I firmly believe everyone should be within 10-15% of each other. I'm just saying others have it pretty bad also.

No one uses the maximum achievable result because it injects a bias into your statistical analysis. Even then having a gap as large as 1k to 6k is going to give you an incorrect analysis of the top 10 assuming the same spread of good and bad players in both specs. Then you have to factor in RNG.

In addition, many of the people at the top don't even have public logs.