should i go vegan?

[Hell-Nicø]

Veganism is a cancerous ideology that spread because it look "cool".

Don't cave in to that retarded thing and live like human are supposed to, by eating both meat and vegetables.

[Azadina]

Veganism is a cancerous ideology that spread because it look "cool".

Don't cave in to that retarded thing and live like human are supposed to, by eating both meat and vegetables.

Who are you to determine how people are supposed to live?

[aysatsana]

1. going vegan without getting malnourished can get expensive in a western society. if you can afford to do so? you can afford to buy free ranged chicken and other meat from animals treated humanely. you don't have to go vegan to satisfy your morals.
2. why are you asking internet to decide for you? what you eat should be your own choice and no one else's (all the usual disclaimers about it needing to be legal, etc).
3. fast food is fast food. its entirely possible to eat shittily as a vegan, you know. just because someone has no meat, doesn't mean it's good food that is good for you.

1. myth myth myth myth. It's not expensive to eat a proper vegan diet. In fact meat is usually the expensive thing in our groceries, at least where I live. Eating a healthy vegan diet is cheaper in most cases. Eating vegan doesn't imply buying all fancy organic. Also "free range" means absolutely nothing, it's just a label, see this

2. Agreed it's his own choice. MMO-champion is full of the "muh bacon" crowd that will give you stupid answers. Do your own research.

I'm expecting a lot of "vegans are malnourished", "no reason to go vegan", "meat is perfectly healthy", "they're animals bro who cares", "it's natural to eat meat" and so on in this thread, I don't want to argue for days as to why those are stupid arguments, I'll just leave this links so you can do your own research. The evidence is there that vegan diets offer health benefits, that vegan diets are better for the environment, and that it is ethically better (guess it's subjective... but not really honestly). I just think it's a better diet overall, there aren't many arguments against it other than "I like the taste of my bacon", which I guess is valid. Too many people come up with the dumbest arguments to feel better, some people even say plants also are sentient and conscious beings lol. I mean even the myth that you need meat to become strong etc have been debunked, just look at some vegan bodybuilders, strongmen etc... Jon Venus on youtube for example.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

http://scholar.harvard.edu/juliamins...ally-motivated

http://www.thepermanentejournal.org/...6192-diet.html

http://i.imgur.com/Xygnetb.png
http://i.imgur.com/PLhJgbo.png

I could go on for days on how we're culturally just desensitized to the whole meat industry.. we just go to the groceries and buy a steak with no idea what happened, we don't even think about it. I think the meat industry is messed up, personally I have no problem with killing an animal to eat it, but rather with the way we raised those animals and the conditions they live in before they died, for example if someone just goes to hunt a wild animal and eats it, I don't really find that wrong, since the animal didn't live such a shitty life before getting killed. There's really no reason to support this industry if vegan diets are proven to be a viable and even healthier alternative. Oh well I think in the future it's very likely that vegan diets will be mainstream and we will look back in shame at the meat industry.

[Fasc]

Vegan is not a healthy diet, vegetarian w/ seafood would be the best for you.

"Best" is debatable as diets with red meat can be perfectly healthy but if you're going for the "I don't care what dietitians say" diet then yes, avoiding red meat and focusing on heavier helpings of various veggies with poultry/fish as your meat source is solid. It naturally forces you away from most fast food and since a lot of frozen meals with chicken/fish are... bleagh... you end up making your own fish/chicken dishes.

Add to this general advice an avoidance of processed stuff or "out of the box" food items and you're probably fine unless you're avoiding some whole subset of food items or just overeating like mad.

Veganism has too many issues and staying true to it disallows B12 and other supplements (animal products yo).

[Azadina]

1. myth myth myth myth. It's not expensive to eat a proper vegan diet. In fact meat is usually the expensive thing in our groceries, at least where I live. Eating a healthy vegan diet is cheaper in most cases. Eating vegan doesn't imply buying all fancy organic. Also "free range" means absolutely nothing, it's just a label, see this

Can't really comment on your location, but 150 calories bag of vegetable mix here is 2.80. What's that for 1500 calories a day? 28 euros. 2000? 37.3 euros. Per day. Meat will get you the same calories for ~4-5 euros total.

Sounds like cheap still?

Everytime I go shopping I see that healthy food is ridiculously expensive compared to nonhealthy. I truly have to wonder where people get the idea that it's equal or even cheaper.

[aysatsana]

Can't really comment on your location, but 150 calories bag of vegetable mix here is 2.80. What's that for 1500 calories a day? 28 euros. 2000? 37.3 euros. Per day. Meat will get you the same calories for ~4-5 euros.

Sounds like cheap still?

Well vegetables don't make up the bulk of my calories, I don't eat 1500 calories of brocoli a day. Most of it comes from stuff like rice, lentils, beans, almond milk, etc. stuff that is dense in calories. Lentils/rice/beans are cheap as hell. Of course the vegetables are expensive but I don't eat 1500 calories worth of them. I guess it's debatable really depending on what your specific diet consists of, but saying vegan diets are expensive is wrong imo.

[Fasc]

The evidence is there that vegan diets offer health benefits, that vegan diets are better for the environment, and that it is ethically better (guess it's subjective... but not really honestly).

The benefits of vegan diets are achievable with red meat diets with simple portion control and avoidance of some cooking methods (smoked meats), which apply to veggies as well hilariously.

The environmental aspects are entirely subject to debate and inspection of all farming and agriculture methods. All farming has an impact on the environment, so if you're only going to focus upon the slaughterhouse impacts only you're being myopic and deliberately ignorant of what impacts the environment and in what quantities and to what degree of permanence. Last I checked the run-off from a variety of pesticides and herbicides play havoc on the environment, ignoring that reveals your own bias, nothing more.

The ethical argument is subjective (based upon your ethical standards) and debatable. That a cow can bond with me, happily trot up at the sound of my voice, nuzzle my hand for more scratches, etc etc does not make that glorious animal any less a viable source of food. A tasty source of food if spiced and prepared properly I might add. The cow, no matter how much I personify it with a variety of traits, regardless of whatever names I give it, is at the end of the day just a cow. An animal. Until humans are born without our meat tearing teeth and a horrid inability to process animal products... hamburgers will continue to be delicious. I can still be sweet and kind to animals and know that other similar animals are sizzling on my grill. There is no dichotomy.

[smaktat]

lol theramore's a chick.

did you just assume her gender

[Deleted]

I think you should try it for a month or so. If you like it, keep going!

[Deleted]

should i go vegan? ive heard theres a lot of nasty things they put in our meat today, and the farm animals are treated unethical.

a few years ago i watched this video called food inc. its pretty disturbing on how they treat the animals
i also had watched a video on mcdonalds on how they make their food, i have never ate at mccdonalds since. its disgusting.
theres also the point where SOME meat isn't even MEAT. /vomits

Don't go vegan. It's a huge missed steak.

[Azadina]

Well vegetables don't make up the bulk of my calories, I don't eat 1500 calories of brocoli a day. Most of it comes from stuff like rice, lentils, beans, almond milk, etc. stuff that is dense in calories. Lentils/rice/beans are cheap as hell. Of course the vegetables are expensive but I don't eat 1500 calories worth of them. I guess it's debatable really depending on what your specific diet consists of, but saying vegan diets are expensive is wrong imo.

I wouldn't assume you did, because you'd have to eat almost 7 kilos per day of it. In any case, comparing their cost per calories to something else, shows how very expensive they are. Chicken is also expensive, but the vegetables still go far ahead. I buy both :/

Don't know about lentils, but beans and rice don't cost much, that's true. Like macaronis cost nearly nothing too. But I'm not sure that's all I'd want in my dinners

[aysatsana]

The benefits of vegan diets are achievable with red meat diets with simple portion control and avoidance of some cooking methods (smoked meats), which apply to veggies as well hilariously.

The environmental aspects are entirely subject to debate and inspection of all farming and agriculture methods. All farming has an impact on the environment, so if you're only going to focus upon the slaughterhouse impacts only you're being myopic and deliberately ignorant of what impacts the environment and in what quantities and to what degree of permanence. Last I checked the run-off from a variety of pesticides and herbicides play havoc on the environment, ignoring that reveals your own bias, nothing more.

The ethical argument is subjective (based upon your ethical standards) and debatable. That a cow can bond with me, happily trot up at the sound of my voice, nuzzle my hand for more scratches, etc etc does not make that glorious animal any less a viable source of food. A tasty source of food if spiced and prepared properly I might add. The cow, no matter how much I personify it with a variety of traits, regardless of whatever names I give it, is at the end of the day just a cow. An animal. Until humans are born without our meat tearing teeth and a horrid inability to process animal products... hamburgers will continue to be delicious. I can still be sweet and kind to animals and know that other similar animals are sizzling on my grill. There is no dichotomy.

Yeah maybe if you severely reduce your red meat consumption and eat mainly plant based, but that's not what most meat eaters do. At that point, might as well eat vegan. Look at the "health benefits" section here http://www.thepermanentejournal.org/...6192-diet.html

I don't think it's a secret that the meat industry is a huge impact on the environment, can you provide me some links to show me otherwise? The meat industry isn't really sustainable. Anyways personally I don't really care about this argument as much as the other two.

Yes of course everything ethical is subjective, but we're at a point where we do not need to eat meat, it's simply for our pleasure, so do you think your pleasure for that bite of bacon is worth the suffering of those animals? I guess that's subjective, but you must be pretty messed up to think that piece of bacon is worth letting another sentient being suffer. I've never personally understood the "it's just an animal" argument, yes they're not as intelligent as us, but they still are sentient beings. So you think it's ok to just torture animals because "they're animals". I really never got this. Humans aren't the center of the universe, and we should use our intelligence/morals to make the decision to not eat meat instead, since we're perfectly capable of doing so.

[Bodakane]

As for the moral aspect of veganism; within this ideology lie deep hypocrisies. Clearly it isn't life that vegans value, since they themselves kill millions, if not billions or even trillions of microorganisms every day. Insects are another casualty; and the tilling of crops reaps a significant death toll of field-dwelling mammals. So what, exactly, is the source of moral outcry? Perhaps the rules of morality only apply to large farm animals. Maybe moral cost is correlated with intelligence. In either case, an argument must be made to distinguish these questions.

Stop.

You're absolutely misrepresenting the argument based on false equivalences and frankly a severe lack of information.

Number 1: Ethical vegans have a single rule, do the least amount of harm possible.
Number 2: There is no correlation between microorganisms lives and animal lives. You are equating two dissimilar things. Its even more of difference than me saying you don't want a member of your family killed therefore you should not want Hitler killed, they're both people, after all.
Number 3: And I don't know why this has to keep getting reexplained, but animals are killed to grow food for livestock as well. So this is real simple math, if X= animals killed to grow crops, then which is doing the least amount of harm:

15 billion animals slaughtered directly for food + X killed in the process of growing crops

or

X

[Tommy T]

You only live once.
Might as well enjoy yourself and be a cunt and contribute to the inane suffering of millions of animals a year.

Go out and buy a nice marbled rib eye steak. Cover it on olive oil and oxo. Griddle until medium rare and wrap it in tin foil for a couple of minutes. Take it out, and put it on a plate with some chunky chips.

I dare you to look at that plate and say "I want to turn vegan". I dare you.
I promise you, the suffering of that cow will be worth it.

[Azadina]

You only live once.
Might as well enjoy yourself and be a cunt and contribute to the inane suffering of millions of animals a year.

Go out and buy a nice marbled rib eye steak. Cover it on olive oil and oxo. Gridle until medium rare and wrap it in tin foil for a couple of minutes. Take it out, and put it on a plate with some chunky chips.

I dare you to look at that plate and say "I want to turn vegan". I dare you.
I promise you, the suffering of that cow will be worth it.

Very easy. I'd rather eat salad than that.

[Flarelaine]

Last time I checked all vegans are alive and well and living longer with less diseases realtive to meat eaters. So yes, go vegan if you can and are strong enough ;-)

Have you got actual statistics for that or just anecdotal evidence?

[Deleted]

Go out and buy a nice marbled rib eye steak. Cover it on olive oil and oxo. Griddle until medium rare and wrap it in tin foil for a couple of minutes. Take it out, and put it on a plate with some chunky chips.
I dare you to look at that plate and say "I want to turn vegan". I dare you.

I don't see the issue. Even IF you go into eating meat, steak is probably among the least appealing types.

[Bodakane]

The benefits of vegan diets are achievable with red meat diets with simple portion control and avoidance of some cooking methods (smoked meats), which apply to veggies as well hilariously.

Nutritional health is far from a settled science. Plenty of people on both sides are very healthy and plenty aren't.

The environmental aspects are entirely subject to debate and inspection of all farming and agriculture methods. All farming has an impact on the environment, so if you're only going to focus upon the slaughterhouse impacts only you're being myopic and deliberately ignorant of what impacts the environment and in what quantities and to what degree of permanence. Last I checked the run-off from a variety of pesticides and herbicides play havoc on the environment, ignoring that reveals your own bias, nothing more.

No. There is no environmental impact from growing crops for human food that doesn't also pertain to growing crops for livestock. A cow eats 24 lbs a day for about 2 years, which produces only 500lbs of meat. That means the amount of crops grown to feed to livestock far outweighs the crops grown for humans. Then on top of that, you have all the pollution from livestock themselves. That's not up in the air/ambiguous/unknown/unsettled/etc.

The ethical argument is subjective (based upon your ethical standards) and debatable. That a cow can bond with me, happily trot up at the sound of my voice, nuzzle my hand for more scratches, etc etc does not make that glorious animal any less a viable source of food. A tasty source of food if spiced and prepared properly I might add. The cow, no matter how much I personify it with a variety of traits, regardless of whatever names I give it, is at the end of the day just a cow. An animal. Until humans are born without our meat tearing teeth and a horrid inability to process animal products... hamburgers will continue to be delicious. I can still be sweet and kind to animals and know that other similar animals are sizzling on my grill. There is no dichotomy.

There is absolutely a dichotomy. You are ok with animals dying (and living horribly) for your enjoyment. That is literally no different than someone being ok with dog fighting. They are both the EXACT same thing, as both justify the killing (and worse) of animals for enjoyment.

[Deleted]

should i go vegan? ive heard theres a lot of nasty things they put in our meat today, and the farm animals are treated unethical.

a few years ago i watched this video called food inc. its pretty disturbing on how they treat the animals
i also had watched a video on mcdonalds on how they make their food, i have never ate at mccdonalds since. its disgusting.
theres also the point where SOME meat isn't even MEAT. /vomits

Why go Vegan? Eat more vegetarian dishes. No need to go completely off the meat, just make your food more varied and rich.
Vegetarian food can contain eggs and fish as well, depending on what kinda vegetarian you are.

A huge part of the Asian kitchen is vegetarian, or uses chicken or fish instead of red meat. Transition to that.

[Bodakane]

You only live once.
Might as well enjoy yourself and be a cunt and contribute to the inane suffering of millions of animals a year.

Go out and buy a nice marbled rib eye steak. Cover it on olive oil and oxo. Griddle until medium rare and wrap it in tin foil for a couple of minutes. Take it out, and put it on a plate with some chunky chips.

I dare you to look at that plate and say "I want to turn vegan". I dare you.
I promise you, the suffering of that cow will be worth it.

I was known to my friends as the beef whisperer, because I could cook/grill any piece of beef (wasn't good with chicken or pork) and you'd punch a baby with another baby to eat more of it.

I'm vegan now.