Legion is really NOT "RNG"

[Katchii]

Post about Legion not being RNG....proceeds to point out exactly how RNG it is. I'm sorry, how many "bonuses" there are in it. My mistake.

[tikcol]

I have 0 legendaries, my friend has 3 and one is best in slot. We play similar much. Yes, it's RNG.

WoW has always been about RNG

In TBC my friend had a BiS mage trinket from hc botanica. I didn't. Yes, it's RNG

[Tyrgannus]

Professions rank ups? RNG.
Sockets? RNG.
Titanforge? RNG.
Tertiary Stats? RNG.
Legendaries in general? RNG.
What world boss you get? RNG.
Can you et the Kosumuth mount? RNG.


I like Legion, but this has the most RNG of any RPG I've played. Ever. Realistically, Diablo 3 has less RNG factors.

[PenguinChan]

I like Legion, but this has the most RNG of any RPG I've played. Ever. Realistically, Diablo 3 has less RNG factors.

At least in Diablo 3 you can look forward to legendaries dropping every few hours at the latest. In WoW you might see one in a few months to never.

[Deleted]

Realistically, Diablo 3 has less RNG factors.

FALSE!

In D3 everything is RNG, including item stats ( ALL OF them).

[Jaylock]

- im fairly certain the items from wqs get random secondaries

- no, id rather have each boss/activity assigned a specific legendary. for example if i want shield neck i go farm the shit out of wqs, if i want damage boots ill be killing xavius on every difficulty, if i want some utility legendary ill run these two dungeons that can drop it, and so on...

Thats good feedback, you should post that on the feedback forum of the official legion forums. That is an actual proposed change to the system that the designers can decide upon.

> or if they have to be a surprise, then id like to have some secondary system in place that i could use to buy the legendary i want after farming for hundreds of hours and not getting it...
> like for real, the whole idea is copy+paste from diablo, so i just dont understand why kadala, enchanter and/or cube didnt make it through aswell...

This is another good suggestion. But where the designers would need to agree upon is what legendaries should they put on a vendor? How many "badges" should a legendary require? Should there be varying levels of badges required for the "better" legendaries? Those types of things they would need to figure out.

- i dont expect anything, all i need from gear is the minimum stamina required to survive unavoidable encounter mechanics
> ilvl, wf, sockets, proper secondaries are just bling which i want to get, because after getting through all the content what else is there to do, besides getting the best shit possible? but right now the only way to get it is by playing stupid slot machines, and im not gonna pay 12$/m just to pull some levers

The WF/TF system makes potentially BIS capped gear that previous expansions had, have even greater potential for power. Now, you might say that you can have a BIS item stats wise, but the power can be even greater. So the truly 100% most powerful version of the item is a bonus to the base BIS item, which can potentially drop and makes farm content more exciting than before.

[Tharkkun]

This is the most RNG of any expansion I've ever played. There are no real gear gaps to fill with farmed currency (not RNG). It's all RNG. WF, TWF, sockets, additional secondaries, legendaries, it's all randomized.

Most of what you mentioned are bonuses beyond what the standard item you were awarded. While they are random there's a still a minimum ilevel you're looking at as a base for the item. The main difference is we don't have Apexis Crystal rewards this time which most people didn't use anyways.

[Jaylock]

Post about Legion not being RNG....proceeds to point out exactly how RNG it is. I'm sorry, how many "bonuses" there are in it. My mistake.

Would you prefer there not to be ANY bonuses in the game.

I mean, really. Lets say you are a casual player and world quest / dungeon content is your end game. Before, your item level would stop at whatever the dungeon ilvl cap was. Now, you have a chance that anything you do, you CAN get an upgrade.

As a raider, as you progress through the raid difficulties, the gearing / difficulty is soft nerfed by the chance to get bonus upgrades. Its ALL BENEFIT. No drawbacks other than the ones that certain players are conjuring up in their minds.

[KrazyK923]

No, it's most definitely RNG.

[Deleted]

I fail to understand this stupid "argument", really. So what, you think we want to level up our crafts for two years? Hint: answer is no. There is a ton of other things to do. Craft skills are like "I wanna levelup them ASAP and forget about that chores until next expansion", and they were always like that. Always, but not in Legion.

Eh??? Since when you think you can talk as "WE" ??? Your opinion is your opinion... As you can see, WE have different opinions here.

Also I don't get your insult.

[Tharkkun]

Most RNG of any expansion I've ever played. There's an element of RNG in just about every single thing I do in WoW in Legion. Prior to this expansion, this was not the case. Your post attempts to legitimize the reason it's here, but that does not change the fact that it's there, and it's overwhelming. Change thread name to, "Legion is RNG, and this is why I like it"

Case dismissed.

Mainly due to people's expectations. Instead of people expecting the ilevel listed on the gear they have come to expect fully titanforged items with a socket. So anything less is now ridiculed as bad RNG. Entitlement at it's highest level.

[Jaylock]

No, it's most definitely RNG.

I don't disagree with you. Every expansion has had RNG. If you think the tf/wf system is rng then yes it is in the sense that its just pure bonus. Nothing is rng about the base ilvl of gear from dungeons and raids other than the rng of a particular item dropping. Its like its always been.

One thing that I will say is I do not like the personal loot system like it is now. They need to allow groups to go back to a specific number of items drop and people get to roll or master loot them out. That might be where the crux of the whole rng issue lies.

[Katchii]

Would you prefer there not to be ANY bonuses in the game.

I mean, really. Lets say you are a casual player and world quest / dungeon content is your end game. Before, your item level would stop at whatever the dungeon ilvl cap was. Now, you have a chance that anything you do, you CAN get an upgrade.

As a raider, as you progress through the raid difficulties, the gearing / difficulty is soft nerfed by the chance to get bonus upgrades. Its ALL BENEFIT. No drawbacks other than the ones that certain players are conjuring up in their minds.

You're right, but saying it's NOT RNG is absolutely false.

[PenguinChan]

In all seriousness the reason people feel it's more RNG is because of the bonuses. Just because you think it's a bonus, doesn't mean the player feels otherwise -- especially when stats can spit at you in the face with crafts and drops. The bonus' are nice in concept, on paper, but realistically it creates another layer of RNG where you have to now go after the correct stats and hope you get a drop and with good rolls.

More specifically, you can't really control the RNG and that feels awful. You can't shape or change what you get, and that leads to more random dungeon queuing and another week of doing Mythics and such. Granted, there are more controlled gear drops on harder content and it becomes less of an issue, but it is still present with the additional ilvl gear.

[Jaylock]

You're right, but saying it's NOT RNG is absolutely false.

So you (saying in the general sense) are complaining that RNG is working for your benefit? Would people rather not have this "rng" system in place?

I think at this point, people are complaining for the sake of complaining, especially since the bonus tf/wf system is working to their advantage.

Hell, even the legendary system works to their advantage. They could have well not even put legendaries into the game, and you would have NOTHING to look forward to in that regard. Isn't the possibility of getting a legendary item better than having none at all?

- - - Updated - - -

So, are you trying to say I feel entitled?

I think hes saying that the playerbase as a whole feels entitled.

[Mifuyne]

Aaaaaaand it's Jaylock lock lock.

[Jaylock]

In all seriousness the reason people feel it's more RNG is because of the bonuses. Just because you think it's a bonus, doesn't mean the player feels otherwise -- especially when stats can spit at you in the face with crafts and drops. The bonus' are nice in concept, on paper, but realistically it creates another layer of RNG where you have to now go after the correct stats and hope you get a drop and with good rolls.

More specifically, you can't really control the RNG and that feels awful. You can't shape or change what you get, and that leads to more random dungeon queuing and another week of doing Mythics and such. Granted, there are more controlled gear drops on harder content and it becomes less of an issue, but it is still present with the additional ilvl gear.

I see what you are saying, but what is the alternative? How do you create a bonus system without having an element of rng to the bonus?

I look at all of these "rng" systems as an exciting bonus when it happens. One of the things that Blizzard definitely needs to fix however is the stat weighting. If they made intellect, agility, and strength be the absolute best stat for all specs and classes, then the secondary stat classification wouldn't matter as much. But as it is right now, for some classes, and for example fire mages, crit is weighted higher than intellect. So it does feel bad to get a higher ilvl piece of gear when their 830 piece has crit on it, it is a better item than the 860 without crit.

[PenguinChan]

So you (saying in the general sense) are complaining that RNG is working for your benefit? Would people rather not have this "rng" system in place?

Have you played Hearthstone? Or really, do you even play Legion? I'm not trying to be rude but positive RNG can have a negative effect on the user experience and cause a sour reaction. Just because it is better for the player, doesn't mean they feel good for it actually happening. TF2's critical hits are a great example, even though that's PVP, where one player feels amazing and the other doesn't.

Positive RNG =/= Good.

I see what you are saying, but what is the alternative? How do you create a bonus system without having an element of rng to the bonus?

You can always go the route that Trinkets use. Pseudo RNG is always a tried and true method of getting new items that you want and keep the player going after more rewards. More specifically, a system that you could perhaps mold and shape a piece of gear you obtain and switch its secondary stats with some effort to what your specialization needs. There are methods to control the RNG after you gain a piece of gear, or before.

There also is the choice of bringing back valor or justice and having that allow the user to fill in the pieces of gear they are missing with the stats that they desire.

[Tharkkun]

So, are you trying to say I feel entitled?

The bonuses were made to increase the longevity of each patch allowing people who've completed content to still earn a reward. Players have now turned it around to be this is the BIS reward and if I don't receive it I've wasted my time. The game is designed to last more than a couple months per patch again unlike what happened in WOD. You don't gear up in a week, roll another character or quit until the next patch hits now. The player base as a whole has become spoiled after WOD.

[Eazy]

Who the fuck is writing these thre...

Oh, Jaylock, okay.