Sub buff needed :(

[shaunika123]

What? Assuming the mobs are gonna live long enough, assassination has much better aoe. I say this as a sub rogue who's playing around with assasination atm cause i dont have boots but have insignia and belt.

I am not putting up garbage damage as sub sans boots, but do feel like i'm missing something by not switching to assassination. Sub is just one of those specs that suffers from the legendary problem in legion.

assa has better cleave, sub has better AOE

[Adalwolf]

Ignore the argument main question is when does sub pull ahead with t19 or is it a combination of t19 and high item level?

And I'm sorry I feel that the more difficult spec to play should award more dmg is all (that and I hate assination. )

Actually, Subtlety only pulls ahead Assassination after you get the right legendary items. It's sure competitive with Assassination even without legendaries, but not stronger, doesn't matter the iLvl you got.

[Tehterokkar]

All 3 rogue specs are doing fine at the moment, but Outlaw kind of got a knee jerk reaction in the first round of nerfs. Theorycrafters knew Ass/Sub would outscale Outlaw in Nighthold gear, but Blizz still had to slam down their nerf hammer for a pretty much trivial raid instance.

[skindown]

It's sure competitive with Assassination even without legendaries

Assuming similar gear & skill, no legendaries on both?? That is exquisitely arguable

[Master Guns]

I grouped with a 871 sub rogue and he did 350+ on each boss in a mythic +5. They def don't need a buff.

[skindown]

I grouped with a 871 sub rogue and he did 350+ on each boss in a mythic +5. They def don't need a buff.

Ok, let me rephrase then, "raid-wise", they aren't anywhere competitive as assassination is w/o their boots

On keystones, however, low to medium keystones, where the fights don't last that long, they still do fine because they can sustain the Shadow Dance charges for a couple minutes, but there's a point where they just don't have them anymore and start to fall A LOT on DPS

[Deleted]

So we've established sub already outscales muti and meme pirate. What exactly do you think would happen if you increased their damage prior to that?

So we should just wait till we might get good, if we get good rng on a legendary drop?

[Abalon]

I should have my sub artifact at 30 by weeks end currently on my plus I do 400k average dps to bosses assuming no immunity mechanics may be able to push 400k dps on nyth tonight heroic we shall see

Makes me sad assination is still better thoigh is a 5 percent dmg buff to much to ask for?

[skindown]

I should have my sub artifact at 30 by weeks end currently on my plus I do 400k average dps to bosses assuming no immunity mechanics may be able to push 400k dps on nyth tonight heroic we shall see

Makes me sad assination is still better thoigh is a 5 percent dmg buff to much to ask for?

Logs? Do you have the boots?

[Abalon]

Look up normal raids item level 863 to 865 and you'll see me listed for last week should have heroic logs come tonight and yes I have the boots

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Btw what lege is best paid with boots I was thinking the shadow blade extenders would be insane given I have 21 second blades arm

[skindown]

Look up normal raids item level 863 to 865 and you'll see me listed for last week should have heroic logs come tonight and yes I have the boots

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Btw what lege is best paid with boots I was thinking the shadow blade extenders would be insane given I have 21 second blades arm

I meant "nick/realm"

Probably Insignia of Ravenholdt

[Master Guns]

I'm sorry but I really feel sub is doing fine. Good sub rogues who know the spec are performing very well. And even better with good gear. The spec is fine and will continue to scale well.

[Abalon]

Sorry abdel on thrall if you want to look up char, I'll agree sub rogues are doing fine when we're top dmg on a single fight for rogues this expansion

According to wow logs is what I mean currently at all item levels there is not a single fight where sub beats assination

[Master Guns]

Just because it doesn't beat assass doesn't mean it's bad. Sjern keeps saying that sub will out scale assass. So that means the spec is fine. It's still viable 100%.

[skindown]

Just because it doesn't beat assass doesn't mean it's bad. Sjern keeps saying that sub will out scale assass. So that means the spec is fine. It's still viable 100%.

Let's do a funny thing then, find me the first sub rogue on the "top parses" that doesn't have the legendary boots

You are missing the problem, yes, we do know that it is highly gear dependant, but "legendary dependant" as well? I don't think it's fair with the spec, it should do competitive damage even w/o the legendary, and have the legendary be a complement to the DPS, not a ~40% overall increase

[Maelstrom51]

Let's do a funny thing then, find me the first sub rogue on the "top parses" that doesn't have the legendary boots

You are missing the problem, yes, we do know that it is highly gear dependant, but "legendary dependant" as well? I don't think it's fair with the spec, it should do competitive damage even w/o the legendary, and have the legendary be a complement to the DPS, not a ~40% overall increase

The legendary isn't a 40% increase. Its around 15%.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...fo=Legendaries

[skindown]

The legendary isn't a 40% increase. Its around 15%.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...fo=Legendaries

That said, we should find rogues w/o the boots on average 15% lower compared to the top sub parse from the said right?

[Abalon]

The legendary gives you almost 100k single target dmg least it did for me from 305 to 410 when I got it

[Maelstrom51]

The legendary gives you almost 100k single target dmg least it did for me from 305 to 410 when I got it

You probably were not playing optimally when you didn't have the legendary. The extra energy gain makes it a lot easier to get four Shadowstrikes during dance.

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That said, we should find rogues w/o the boots on average 15% lower compared to the top sub parse from the said right?

You should and you can.

If I wasn't at work I could link a multitude of decent sub logs without the legendary boots.

[Conjwa]

I grouped with a 871 sub rogue and he did 350+ on each boss in a mythic +5. They def don't need a buff.

thats not even good. i regularly pull upwards of 500-600k on dungeon bosses at 875 ilvl sub (provided there are no immune mechanics)