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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    i didnt say it does
    nor do i think it should
    outlaw should be good enough that it's the clear winner in certain fights, but it should not be the best ST spec of rogues, that'd be dumb

    - - - Updated - - -



    im not ignoring, i was counting that 4% with 2 RT relics

    with 2 relics it went from 140% to 130% that's a ~8% decrease counting RT as 50% of our dmg (and it was more like 45) that's a 4% dmg nerf
    Yes...yes you did say that. You said the nerfs before amounted to 6-8% nerf, and these buffs is a 6-8% buff which means you think these buffs = what outlaw was pre-fatebringer/RT nerf.

    What you were ignoring was the fatebringer nerfs.

  2. #122
    Bloodsail Admiral Kalador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    Fire mages are superior to frost and arcane in both ST and AoE
    MM Hunters are superior to BM and survival in both ST and AoE
    Warlocks - I am not sure about, but last i checked - it was between demo and destro.

    Apparently it's not an issue for other classes, yet it is an issue for rogues, why?

    Is it not better to do your best to balance all specs to perform the same in both scenarios rather than make one good for one thing and the other one good for the other?
    they buffed arcane mage and it's probably going to end up being king of ST
    BM hunter have insane cleave right now but yes MM seems to be top spec for almost everything (not a good thing imo)
    warlocks have very good balance, destro is king of cleave, demo as insane ST and affli is very good for AoE.

    Making all spec perform the same in all senario is impossible, a spec like assa that need multi dot to work in AoE is never going to be as good as outlaw on short add wave senario, different playstyle means different strenght, dot spec are offten very good on 2-3 target senario, spec with fast cleave on group AoE, bursty spec on ST or burn phase type boss...

    This is where pure dps class exel, they have 3 specs with different stengh due to different playstyle/abilties...
    if you want play only outlaw or only assa it should be viable but don't expect to be top in every situation. IMO pure dps internal spec balance should be all about niches, if you have 1 spec that top AoE on spec that is bursty and 1 that is more sustaine and they are well balance than all specs are relevent and you are making a true choice, witch one do i want to max, do i want to keep 2 up, do i need to gear all 3... what sacrifice do i make by going full outlaw or full assa, what do i gain by putting the effort to gear 2/3 spec, etc... when 1 spec is best at everything like outlaw at the start of the expac there is no choice... everyone goes outlaw cause it's the only viable option...
    Last edited by Kalador; 2016-10-26 at 09:03 PM.

  3. #123
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Capita1ist View Post
    Nice log mate! I just got the bracers last night. Are you using BtE on CD with 5+ CB points?

    Cap
    yes i use it if its ready as soon as i actually consume the buff (lasts 15 seconds)

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalador View Post
    they buffed arcane mage and it's probably going to end up being king of ST
    BM hunter have insane cleave right now but yes MM seems to be top spec for almost everything (not a good thing imo)
    warlocks have very good balance, destro is king of cleave, demo as insane ST and affli is very good for AoE.

    Making all spec perform the same in all senario is impossible, a spec like assa that need multi dot to work in AoE is never going to be as good as outlaw on short add wave senario, different playstyle means different strenght, dot spec are offten very good on 2-3 target senario, spec with fast cleave on group AoE, bursty spec on ST or burn phase type boss...

    This is where pure dps class exel, they have 3 specs with different stengh due to different playstyle/abilties...
    if you want play only outlaw or only assa it should be viable but don't expect to be top in every situation. IMO pure dps internal spec balance should be all about niches, if you have 1 spec that top AoE on spec that is bursty and 1 that is more sustaine and they are well balance than all specs are relevent and you are making a true choice, witch one do i want to max, do i want to keep 2 up, do i need to gear all 3... what sacrifice do i make by going full outlaw or full assa, what do i gain by putting the effort to gear 2/3 spec, etc... when 1 spec is best at everything like outlaw at the start of the expac there is no choice... everyone goes outlaw cause it's the only viable option...
    This is pure BS. `
    If i want to play a role (not a spec, not a class) in my raid to the fullest, i have to equip one spec if i am a tank or a healer, but as a DPS i am expected keep up all 3 specs or be suboptimal? Playstyle should dictate HOW i deal my damage, not how MUCH or whatever.
    If one spec is stronger for specific fights/situations, yeah sure, everyone loves to say "i excel here!" but telling some people "sucks to be you" is not the way. Not today. Not in the intended World of Casualcraft.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
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    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  5. #125
    Bloodsail Admiral Kalador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    This is pure BS. `
    If i want to play a role (not a spec, not a class) in my raid to the fullest, i have to equip one spec if i am a tank or a healer, but as a DPS i am expected keep up all 3 specs or be suboptimal? Playstyle should dictate HOW i deal my damage, not how MUCH or whatever.
    If one spec is stronger for specific fights/situations, yeah sure, everyone loves to say "i excel here!" but telling some people "sucks to be you" is not the way. Not today. Not in the intended World of Casualcraft.
    After rereading your post i actually don't know if it's sarcasm or not but ill still respond XD

    i never said you have to keep up 3 specs or be suboptimal... i said there is choice to make, maintain 3 specs give you more flex while tunneling one spec give you the fullest of that spec while sacrificing flex.

    the problem with the playstyle choice is that true balance is impossible outside of copy pasting specs, i believe that the best solution to this is to make different playstyle excel at different things. it's also a good thing as fight that only demend pure ST top the meter dps are more rare than ever, people look at logs, take the class/spec that top the meter on most fight and assume it's the best specs for said fight when it's imo the wrong way to look at it, some class/spec might be very good to take an adds down very quick or help with some mecanics quicker sacrificing overall dps helping other do more dmg on boss...

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiroso View Post
    Yes...yes you did say that. You said the nerfs before amounted to 6-8% nerf, and these buffs is a 6-8% buff which means you think these buffs = what outlaw was pre-fatebringer/RT nerf.

    What you were ignoring was the fatebringer nerfs.
    i wasnt ignoring anything
    i literally doubled that 4% to account for fatebringer

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalador View Post
    After rereading your post i actually don't know if it's sarcasm or not but ill still respond XD

    i never said you have to keep up 3 specs or be suboptimal... i said there is choice to make, maintain 3 specs give you more flex while tunneling one spec give you the fullest of that spec while sacrificing flex.

    the problem with the playstyle choice is that true balance is impossible outside of copy pasting specs, i believe that the best solution to this is to make different playstyle excel at different things. it's also a good thing as fight that only demend pure ST top the meter dps are more rare than ever, people look at logs, take the class/spec that top the meter on most fight and assume it's the best specs for said fight when it's imo the wrong way to look at it, some class/spec might be very good to take an adds down very quick or help with some mecanics quicker sacrificing overall dps helping other do more dmg on boss...
    I think you didn't read my post at all. Dividing the applications of a DPS class (the best known would be ST/cleave/AoE) into 3 specs is simply unacceptable.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  8. #128
    Bloodsail Admiral Kalador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    I think you didn't read my post at all. Dividing the applications of a DPS class (the best known would be ST/cleave/AoE) into 3 specs is simply unacceptable.
    I know my opinion is a bit revolutionary ;-)

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalador View Post
    I know my opinion is a bit revolutionary ;-)
    I see no advantage, which is indeed revolutionary.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Efficiency View Post
    yes i use it if its ready as soon as i actually consume the buff (lasts 15 seconds)
    Thanks. Are you seeing similar issue as to this previous post?

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post42985491

    TLDR - Not being able to cast BtE as quickly as you can during TB? I'm seeing similar issues still.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Capita1ist View Post
    Thanks. Are you seeing similar issue as to this previous post?

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post42985491

    TLDR - Not being able to cast BtE as quickly as you can during TB? I'm seeing similar issues still.
    Considering he got 18 casts off in roughly 4 minutes, i'm gonna assume no.

  12. #132
    Well, good to know we only need the two best legendaries out of eight to make the spec viable.

  13. #133
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#sample=1

    idk... we are still on bottom, we can only win in some fights (aoe based, but not all of then) and xavius we do pull ahead sub, but not sin lol

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by uniquesnowflakename View Post
    Well, good to know we only need the two best legendaries out of eight to make the spec viable.
    Remember when they said they won't balance around legendaries?
    I member...

  15. #135
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Capita1ist View Post
    Thanks. Are you seeing similar issue as to this previous post?

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post42985491

    TLDR - Not being able to cast BtE as quickly as you can during TB? I'm seeing similar issues still.
    there's a visual bug with between the eyes when you have true bearing up. sometimes (this is inconsistent) the UI assumes that BtE reduces its own cooldown when you cast it with true bearing up, but it doesnt actually. so now and then it looks like your BtE isn't on cooldown but you cannot cast it. This is a really annoying bug but i've learned to keep track of the ability's cooldown subconsciously myself. Would be much easier without that bug though.

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