[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[Hyxi]

@Azortharion, There were big changes in the legendaries sims. Thelt is now top on single and the ring on 3 targets. What happened?

Aimed shot nerf perhaps?

[Eapoe]

Does anyone know if MM is bugged or we had more of a nerf than the 5% to AiS? Guildie who plays BM stated that Bestial Fury is currently not working and wondering if something similar is happening to MM. I can find logs if needed, but last week I was easily maintaining 290-320k+, if not higher on certain fights, and now seems like I am averaging 220-280k for most fights. 5% to one ability shouldn't make that huge of a difference, as I've also gotten 2 better items since last week.

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Also, on a quick side question, is BM worth looking into as EN starts to end? Guildie has been playing it since release, does incredible damage with it, and has stated from multiple sources that it is likely to scale better than MM.

[Magnagarde]

Doing a lot less damage than before as a MM, even though I got a BiS today and an upgrade to another item. All the BM I was raiding with earlier today have experienced bigger drops in DPS than I have.

[Gaaz]

MM scales better (weapon dmg & mastery) as well receives total % damage increase via Trait 34 & higher. Meanwhile BM only gets pet damage increase. Also BM's T-Set is bad compared to MM's (60% more dire beast damage for 10s vs 50% reduced focus cost under trueshot).

Cant see how BM would beat MM later.

The paragon artifact trait is very likely just a misspelling. I think that BM hunters (as well as all mage specs) will get the same bonus of overall damage as the other classes and specs.
Secondary stat scaling is about the same for both MM and BM. The difference is that BM scales better with agility, whereas MM better with weapon damage.
Set bonus is indeed bad for BM in its current state. Focus cost reduction is nice for MM. But I wonder if all of it will be utilised properly. BM for example already almost perma focus capped under certain situations (bloodlust/heroism and / or Aspect of the wild). Can MM actually use all of that focus in a trueshot window if we count in a 50% reduction? You could fit several more aimed shots with extra focus, but I am not sure if it is as big of a boost as some may believe. It definitely is not the x2 damage on the Trueshot window.

[Eapoe]

MM scales better (weapon dmg & mastery) as well receives total % damage increase via Trait 34 & higher. Meanwhile BM only gets pet damage increase. Also BM's T-Set is bad compared to MM's (60% more dire beast damage for 10s vs 50% reduced focus cost under trueshot).

Cant see how BM would beat MM later.

MM scales better with weapon damage. BM, from what I've heard is more about the relics you use and less about the damage, so with good relics but less weapon ilvl can do better at scaling (maybe poor choice of words). Also, MM also only gets a burst window for a small amount of time over the course of the fight (which can be good depending on how many TS's you get) vs an almost constant damage increase on dire beast. Also, based on artifact weapon, MM gets damage increase to all shots (don't remember tooltip and not sure if applied to auto attacks), where BM scales all pet damage (2 constant pets and dire beasts as well as MoC/Stampede).
Still a ways to go before we reach that point with nerfs/buffs possibly inc, so asking people that know for sure or may have looked into it extensively (like Azor for example), no offense intended.

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The paragon artifact trait is very likely just a misspelling. I think that BM hunters (as well as all mage specs) will get the same bonus of overall damage as the other classes and specs.
Secondary stat scaling is about the same for both MM and BM. The difference is that BM scales better with agility, whereas MM better with weapon damage.
Set bonus is indeed bad for BM in its current state. Focus cost reduction is nice for MM. But I wonder if all of it will be utilised properly. BM for example already almost perma focus capped under certain situations (bloodlust/heroism and / or Aspect of the wild). Can MM actually use all of that focus in a trueshot window if we count in a 50% reduction? You could fit several more aimed shots with extra focus, but I am not sure if it is as big of a boost as some may believe. It definitely is not the x2 damage on the Trueshot window.

Also, the reduced focus is nice, but considering without a load of haste you will still be following almost the same basic rotation for vulnerability windows, so not sure how good being able to cast limp wristes AiS's will be much of an improvement.

[Supakaiser]

just a question... I know the guide says "use barrage on cooldown" but it also says to delay it if vulne is up but... sometimes i get crazy lucky with procs and vulnerable is up for quite a while... should I still use barrage ?

I always struggle with this too.

[Holovik]

I always struggle with this too.

I try to delay barrage no more than ~5 seconds. If I'm on a lucky streak of procs I try to put it after my first SW of the normal SW > AiS > MS > AiS > AiS. So it would look like this: SW > Barrage > AiS > MS > AiS > AiS. Assuming you have the focus for this it does not impact your rotation at all. Technically you are using your barrage when you have vuln up, but you're using it during a vuln where you would only cast 1 AiS anyways. I could be wrong here and putting a second AiS in this vuln would be more beneficial, this is just what I have found works well if I would have to continue to delay barrage and end up losing DPS by doing so. Otherwise it's probably best to use it after your vuln expires when you are 1.) waiting on a MT proc, or 2.) have MT but only 1 charge of SW and can use your WB/Barrage with no penalty to the CD of SW.

[Deleted]

here are is the log u wanted http://simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19H.html
there is flanking strike with
hunter part: 226k
Pet part: 106k
and thats too low since the pet part should do about ~1/3 less dmg than the hunter part

and to give some insight into my stat prio

the Crit vers thing ..
in terms of stat weight
400 vers gives u 1 % more dmg
350 crit 1% crit chance wich are basicly also 1% more dmg
400 crit ~1.14%
but now we have the problem that On the Trail can not crit it doese about 2 % of our dmg so
400 crit 1.12% dmg increase

since they are both multplier they are both impliefing each other so:
10% crit and 10% vers give more dmg than 20% crit or 20% vers:

100k+10% are 110k+10%=121k
100+20% = 120k

if we take now stats and not %
8k stats wich are
20% vers
22.86% crit =22.4 % dmg

100k+10%vers=120k+11.2%crit=122.32k
100k+20%vers= 120k
100k+22.4%crit= 122.4k

but at certen points likt the 43% crit
wich are 42.14 dmg and 15,050 stats wich would be 37.625% vers

100k+18.81%vers=118,810dmg+21.07%crit=143,843dmg
100k+37.625%vers=137,625Dmg
100k+42.14%crit=142,140dmg

wich means that 43%crit and 53% crit while AotE are good points to aim for because we need less Points in crit to get the same amount of dmg,
but now its so that crit has some kind of "soft cap" and an hard cap wich are 50+% crit ("softcap") and 100% so if we crit more than we do not
Vers raises in Value and we should crap that.

for haste 20% haste is a good cap to get because its our first break point for cd usage
5 sec cd on FS instead of 6sec so we can use 12 FS in 1 min and not just 10 FS.
our gcd gets lowerd to 1.25 secs so every 4 skills we can use 1 more also an dmg gain
mongoose bite goese down to 10 secs, more auto hits +pet auto hits wich proc the Mastery now
more skill overall in our burst phases and other stuff.
With animal insticts as talant we can even use 1 Flanking Strike more in 1 min.
no haste and AI = ~13FS per min
20% haste and AI =~16FS per min

with all this in mind 20% haste are nearly if not even better 20% vers just that we need way less stats to get 20 % haste than vers,
but after that the next break point would be 50% haste wich is way too much whats is the reason we wont have any haste afterwards,
that way we even give Crit and vers more value.

If i have some miss or failures in my conclusion, calculatins or thoughts than i would liek to hear wich and where they are.
with Animal Instincts the Nesingwary boots should also get stronger since we can do more FS this way.

[Sixel]

here are is the log u wanted http://simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19H.html
there is flanking strike with
hunter part: 226k
Pet part: 106k
and thats too low since the pet part should do about ~1/3 less dmg than the hunter part

and to give some insight into my stat prio

the Crit vers thing ..
in terms of stat weight
400 vers gives u 1 % more dmg
350 crit 1% crit chance wich are basicly also 1% more dmg
400 crit ~1.14%
but now we have the problem that On the Trail can not crit it doese about 2 % of our dmg so
400 crit 1.12% dmg increase

since they are both multplier they are both impliefing each other so:
10% crit and 10% vers give more dmg than 20% crit or 20% vers:

100k+10% are 110k+10%=121k
100+20% = 120k

if we take now stats and not %
8k stats wich are
20% vers
22.86% crit =22.4 % dmg

100k+10%vers=120k+11.2%crit=122.32k
100k+20%vers= 120k
100k+22.4%crit= 122.4k

but at certen points likt the 43% crit
wich are 42.14 dmg and 15,050 stats wich would be 37.625% vers

100k+18.81%vers=118,810dmg+21.07%crit=143,843dmg
100k+37.625%vers=137,625Dmg
100k+42.14%crit=142,140dmg

wich means that 43%crit and 53% crit while AotE are good points to aim for because we need less Points in crit to get the same amount of dmg,
but now its so that crit has some kind of "soft cap" and an hard cap wich are 50+% crit ("softcap") and 100% so if we crit more than we do not
Vers raises in Value and we should crap that.

for haste 20% haste is a good cap to get because its or first break point for cd usage
5 sec cd on FS instead of 6sec so we can use 12 FS in 1 min and not just 10 FS.
our gcd gets lowerd to 1.25 secs so every 4 skills we can use 1 more also an dmg gain
mongoose bite goese down to 10 secs, more auto hits +pet auto hits wich seems to proc the Mastery now (need to evaluate this more)
more skill overall in our burst phases and other stuff.
With animal insticts as talant we can even use 1 Flanking Strike more in 1 min.
no haste and AI = ~13FS per min
20% haste and AI =~16FS per min

with all this in mind 20% haste are nearly if not even better 20% vers just that we need way less stats to get 20 % haste than vers,
but after that the next break point would be 50% haste wich is way too much whats is the reason we wont have any haste afterwards,
that way we even give Crit and vers more value.

If i have some miss or failures in my conclusion, calculatins or thoughts than i would liek to hear wich and where they are.
with Animal Instincts the Nesingwary boots should also get stronger since we can do more FS this way.

So would you say that haste (until 20%) > crit ~= vers > mastery > haste? Or did I read this wrong. In theory mastery also becomes much more valuable than what it was right? Not necessarily better than any of the other stats, but it isn't a waste now. I would think we want mastery until a certain point.

[Deleted]

pretty much yeah haste(untill 20%)>crit(untill 43%)>=vers>crit>haste>mastery
the probem with the mastery is that if u go out of Mungoose Fury u can get prccs which cant be used usefully because mognoose bite without a certain amount af stack wich mostly beginn at 4 or 5 are very weak compared to ur other abilitys other wise with 20% u can pump out all ur MB stacks till 31sec cd on FotE alle all proccs afterwards but u cant delay other skill just because of this because it would end in and dps and dmg decrease, but thats because our mastery is rly bad it should be bindet to Flanking Strike with a 12.5% procc chance and 25% procc chance on crits and mastery should be something like Mongoose fury % dmg

[chrewm]

For all the troll hunters out there, how do you manage your berserking?

I know you're supposed to keep them as separate binds, but do you hold off and try to combine it with your true shot (or in instances where stuff needs to die ofc) or use it off CD?

I currently have Beserking bound to my True Shot, since they are both 3 minute cooldowns.

but as I get more ranks of Quick Shot, and get the 2-piece bonus in maybe 2 months, and hopefully get the legendary boots, I will ofcoarse make a new hotkey for Beserking and use it accordingly.

[Dracodraco]

I currently have Beserking bound to my True Shot, since they are both 3 minute cooldowns.

but as I get more ranks of Quick Shot, and get the 2-piece bonus in maybe 2 months, and hopefully get the legendary boots, I will ofcoarse make a new hotkey for Beserking and use it accordingly.

The fact that you've got no ranks in Quick Shot yet is kind of disturbing.

As for when to use it, I'd just try and stack it with a trinket proc if you have one, if not, then when you have a period where your ressources are relatively full so you can unload. There's also nothing wrong with berserking+trueshot outside of BL; Inside it'd probably be a bit too much.

[aHeeRo]

I believe this has been asked before but is Twisting Wind Simmed correctly? No on Azors part but in SimC? Just curious if its really that high up even on ST.

[Azortharion]

Updates to Survival coming, esp. in the light of fixes to its Mastery in SimCraft and ingame (on top of the deliberate buffs made to the spec) which should make it pretty solid.

You can safely ignore all sims showing that Patient Sniper is no longer the best t75 talent.

Trinket sims will all be updated asap, just kinda waiting for some other fixes to SimCraft to go through before I mess with that.

Get ahold of Aran's Relaxing Ruby.

[Deleted]

Azur, there were big changes in the Legendaries rankings for MM. The boots are not bis anymore. Do you know what's the reason?

[Angrox]

Updates to Survival coming, esp. in the light of fixes to its Mastery in SimCraft and ingame (on top of the deliberate buffs made to the spec) which should make it pretty solid.

You can safely ignore all sims showing that Patient Sniper is no longer the best t75 talent.

Trinket sims will all be updated asap, just kinda waiting for some other fixes to SimCraft to go through before I mess with that.

Get ahold of Aran's Relaxing Ruby.

Cheers for the update,

Appreciated.

[Xaath]

I have Bloodthirsty Instinct 860 and Naraxxas Tongue 850. I'm guessing I should replace Naraxx with Aran's?

[MatthewOU2015]

Was the killer cobra hotfix a slight buff for BM?

[Deleted]

Was the killer cobra hotfix a slight buff for BM?

Only if you play with naraxas' trinket. If you were close enough to the target, cobra shot would hit the target before the gcd.

[Maxie]

Not really, but it will make it feel better.