Silicon Valley Pushes for Immigration Reform for Its Own Purposes

[Damajin]

Yeah, I think we are done here.

You are fond of saying that when you've got no argument left to stand on. In many ways your arguments are extremely habitual.

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And sir you ignore the actual law, and go after Heritage foundation, well played

And sir the 'law' is being ignored by way more than me. You might want to wake up to that fact.

[Gestopft]

And sir the 'law' is being ignored by way more than me. You might want to wake up to that fact.

So the problem isn't in fact H1B visas, but that the law isn't being properly enforced, right?

[Damajin]

There are many more factors than this, too. I don't know all the details, but, as someone who might be applying for H1B eventually, I found that employers in small/medium companies are very wary of considering helping people with H1B application process. There are a lot of bureaucratic hoops and financial expenses coming with it.

Oh, makes much more sense now.

[NED funded]

And here is another study claiming the opposite:

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...better-economy

So, why is your study right and my wrong? Riiiiiiight, because your study agrees with you and mine does not!

Dude your paper is not contradicting his. His is stating that H1-B has negative effects on native high-skill tech workers, while yours is arguing that welfare for US natives increases due to H1-B, but at the cost of native high-skill tech workers. In addition the Heritage foundation is propaganda.

Besides companies use H1-B to do this type of things:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/us...-overseas.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/11/us...-the-cold.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/us...mmigrants.html

[Tradewind]

lol, did anyone really expect them to have any actual experience working?

[Iamanerd]

The point is, by importing those who offer a better productiveness-per-cost stat, you encourage your own population to improve its productiveness-per-cost stat. Which is good for the economy long-term. If you are afraid of companies exploiting workers, set some standards, such as minimum wages in different fields. Rather than isolating yourself, removing potential competition and letting your citizens feel safe and unchallenged, while the economy is stagnating.

This country was formed by immigrants, and became so successful due to immigrants. It is a perfect example of what rejection of protectionism can achieve. I see no reason to turn this around now.

So you encourage people to be paid less and less because these H1B workers, I've had two friends lose theirs jobs and have been paid off to say nothing to press due to this shit. They bring these workers in and pay them a lot less and it's more cost effective for the company to pay off the local resident. But hey if they want to fuck the country over in the long term so be it, when everyone's making shit these companies will have nothing.

[Damajin]

So the problem isn't in fact H1B visas, but that the law isn't being properly enforced, right?

To some extent, yes however the fact is that complying with the law on wage scale doesn't remove from the companies the leverage/tactic of working H1B workers to the bone under threat of revocation of their permit, nor does it do jack shit for the native population who are displaced or have their applications rejected in favor of H1B workers.

The true problem is that companies are going to great lengths to not hire Americans even when they are eminently qualified. As mentioned earlier we don’t exactly have a lack of STEM/IT candidates in this country, we’re flush to the gills with those. It’s about paying cheap foreign labor and about exerting control over them through the ability to pull the H1B.

[Aggrophobic]

I could care less if it kills off the company, which frankly it isn't likely to do at all. Everyone and their brother knows it's about fattening up that profit margin and nothing else. You're being deliberately obtuse as the people applying for those jobs already have plenty of schooling, they just get kicked to the curb in favor of cheaper foreign workers.

Again, finding a job is not hard in the US. If you're having problems it's you, not the company, not the government, not anyone else, it's you.

[Damajin]

Again, finding a job is not hard in the US. If you're having problems it's you, not the company, not the government, not anyone else, it's you.

Rofl. It's nigh impossible to address a statement this asinine but I'm going to do it anyway.

Personal responsibility and work ethic have a limit in this country, and that limit is directly related to the extent of the US Corporate Lobby.

[NED funded]

@May90
A good argument you could be using is the one presented in this study:

[H-1B immigrants] increased the overall welfare of US natives, and had significant distributional consequences. In the absence of immigration, wages for US computer scientists would have been 2.6% to 5.1% higher and employment in computer science for US workers would have been 6.1% to 10.8% higher in 2001. On the other hand, complements in production benefited substantially from immigration…Firms in the IT sector also earned substantially higher profits.

You acknowledge that it has negative effects on high tech workers, but that this costs are worth it in order to increase the overall welfare of the average US citizen.

[Aggrophobic]

Oh, the unemployment rate is zero?

Man, we'd better get this news out, guys! Why hasn't the media been talking about this?!

No, but not everyone has a good education.
Forcing these companies to use american workers would not help the ones that skipped school. They would not get these jobs anyway.

[Deleted]

In addition, the H1B, H1B1, and E3 programs require the employer to pay the prevailing wage or the actual wage paid by the employer to workers with similar skills and qualifications, whichever is higher.

https://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/wages.cfm

I don't know what sites you look here is the actual law

yes but the HB1 visa brings down the wages, because now there are more people fill the same number positions - More labour means lower wages.

[Aggrophobic]

It's funny to me how the culture in the US has become such that the answer to, "Someone is punching me in the face" has not become, "Stop them from punching you" but rather "Stop being such a complainer!"

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So basically you don't have the faintest idea of what you're talking about. Nice of you to let us know.

Sigh... Right, right. You being unable to get a job is someone elses fault. You win.
Good luck with that attitude by the way. I'm sure it'll get you far in life. Blaming others and all that.

[corebit]

So you encourage people to be paid less and less because these H1B workers, I've had two friends lose theirs jobs and have been paid off to say nothing to press due to this shit. They bring these workers in and pay them a lot less and it's more cost effective for the company to pay off the local resident. But hey if they want to fuck the country over in the long term so be it, when everyone's making shit these companies will have nothing.

No, he just wants us to vote for some politician who will make empty promises or support some vague law, meanwhile the corporations continue to fuck the native population over.

[Deleted]

There are many more factors than this, too. I don't know all the details, but, as someone who might be applying for H1B eventually, I found that employers in small/medium companies are very wary of considering helping people with H1B application process. There are a lot of bureaucratic hoops and financial expenses coming with it.

yeah, so there is a regulatory hurdle punishing small companies and benefiting big companies.
How surprising.

You are talking about the negative impact on the economy...dismissing the size of the population as irrelevant???

Yes its irrelevant - You need to compare the numbers of people with the relevant degrees.

"Feels"? "They cost us jobs" is a void statement, as there are many more factors at play than just "one worker came, took my position, he cost me a job".

No there really isn't.
The goal of a country is not to adhere the most strongly to economic theory.

[Damajin]

It's funny to me how the culture in the US has become such that the answer to, "Someone is punching me in the face" has not become, "Stop them from punching you" but rather "Stop being such a complainer! It's fine!"

Somewhere George Washington and Teddy Roosevelt are inbetween bouts of wrestling Astral Dragons and wondering if they can find their way back to Earth and fix this shit.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I don't really think Crissi or Tradewind really argue "STOP IMMIGRATION STOP IT ALL." That's not the vibe I get. The vibe I am getting is, "Corporations are being assholes and causing the average American to pay the price.."

[Damajin]

Sigh... Right, right. You being unable to get a job is someone elses fault. You win.
Good luck with that attitude by the way. I'm sure it'll get you far in life. Blaming others and all that.

Dude you haven't read shit at all. The people being displaced or having their applications denied are ALREADY TRAINED AND QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB.

They're losing out in favor of cheap foreign labor, bottom line. Get that through your head.

[NED funded]

I don't really think Crissi or Tradewind really argue "STOP IMMIGRATION STOP IT ALL." That's not the vibe I get. The vibe I am getting is, "Corporations are being assholes and causing the average American to pay the price.."

This is quite false though. The average american is benefiting from H1-B its IT related workers that are loosing.

[Venant]

So you encourage people to be paid less and less because these H1B workers, I've had two friends lose theirs jobs and have been paid off to say nothing to press due to this shit. They bring these workers in and pay them a lot less and it's more cost effective for the company to pay off the local resident. But hey if they want to fuck the country over in the long term so be it, when everyone's making shit these companies will have nothing.

He isn't presenting a consistent ideology, May is essentially espousing a hardcore libertarian view of immigration, but such a view only works if you essentially destroy the welfare state and all regulations in order to create an ideal free market situation.