Silicon Valley Pushes for Immigration Reform for Its Own Purposes

[Damajin]

This is quite false though. The average american is benefiting from H1-B its IT related jobs that are loosing.

There's a direct correlation between average American and IT workers being discussed in this thread. They're not some special, distinct class especially because H1B can apply to any field not just IT.

- - - Updated - - -

In many cases, they're training their replacements!

But yeah, it's all their fault.

Stop talking that sense stuff, right now. This thread is only for nonsense.

[Crissi]

lack of education? Ever think a lot of the youth having trouble in tech have done what they were supposed to, have bachelors / matsers, and still cant get in? Lack of educaiton has shit to do with anything.

[Aggrophobic]

Dude you haven't read shit at all. The people being displaced or having their applications denied are ALREADY TRAINED AND QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB.

They're losing out in favor of cheap foreign labor, bottom line. Get that through your head.

Of course! Why would you not get cheap labor if they are just as good? Get better or get another job.
No law will fix that for you. You either get better or the companies will move somewhere else.

[Crissi]

Of course! Why would you not get cheap labor if they are just as good? Get better or get another job.
No law will fix that for you. You either get better or the companies will move somewhere else.

How do you propose unemployed people with the relevent masters / bachelors / skillset but lack experience "get better" when the places that would normaly give experience, hire H1B people instead or hire people with exp?

[Yvaelle]

Dad's in the software / tech industry. Its not that America lacks talant, its that companies dont want to bother paying more / training new workers so they abuse the H1B visas instead to import already trained ones.

So yes, this is bullshit. Companies are screwing the future economy by going cheaper right now.

^ This.

Unregulated, companies are required to do this. They have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize profit in the short term (quarterly), planning long-term for their own company, let alone thinking about the success of the nation - are not in their job description. If they were to do either of those things at the expense of quarterly profit, they would have grounds to lose their job to shareholders who only care about stock price.

If we don't tell industries what they can and cannot do, they must do what maximizes profit. Companies are not moral people, they are psychopaths.

[NED funded]

There's a direct correlation between average American and IT workers being discussed in this thread. They're not some special, distinct class especially because H1B can apply to any field not just IT.

Yes, but all of the academic research shows that the negative effects of H1-B are almost solely bared by IT workers, other fields do not field these negative consequences.

For example: This study concludes:

[H-1B immigrants] increased the overall welfare of US natives, and had significant distributional consequences. In the absence of immigration, wages for US computer scientists would have been 2.6% to 5.1% higher and employment in computer science for US workers would have been 6.1% to 10.8% higher in 2001. On the other hand, complements in production benefited substantially from immigration…Firms in the IT sector also earned substantially higher profits.

As an additional thought I always find it interesting how people's attitude changes when they are affected by policies that net a positive or "greater good". Usually it changes from I support immigration to I oppose it.

[Tradewind]

Again, finding a job is not hard in the US. If you're having problems it's you, not the company, not the government, not anyone else, it's you.

No, but not everyone has a good education.
Forcing these companies to use american workers would not help the ones that skipped school. They would not get these jobs anyway.

Sigh... Right, right. You being unable to get a job is someone elses fault. You win.
Good luck with that attitude by the way. I'm sure it'll get you far in life. Blaming others and all that.

Wow, I don't think any phrase or idiom in the English language can accurately sum up this string of retarded statements. "Talking out of your ass" doesn't even come close.

[Aggrophobic]

How do you propose unemployed people with the relevent masters / bachelors / skillset but lack experience "get better" when the places that would normaly give experience, hire H1B people instead or hire people with exp?

Seeing as the US unemployment is at around 5% you're obviously doing something wrong.
How many of thoes 5% have a masters? Can't be many.

[Tradewind]

Thread's dead I guess, nobody but this myopic chucklefuck carrying on.

[Crissi]

Seeing as the US unemployment is at around 5% you're obviously doing something wrong.
How many of thoes 5% have a masters? Can't be many.

That something is my lack of experience on my resume. I interview well apparantly

[NED funded]

That something is my lack of experience on my resume. I interview well apparantly

Don't you acquire experience while doing internships or volunteering?

I volunteered to recollect data for my professor.

[Crissi]

Don't you have acquire experience while doing internships or volunteering?

I volunteered to recollect data for my professor.

I did, 2 summers in Belize. Still...nada

[Blobfish]

2012, so the numbers are much higher now.




All Beneficiaries, Initial Employment, Continuing Employment

FY 2011 FY 2012 FY 2011 FY 2012 FY 2011 FY 2012

India 156,317 168,367 55,972 86,477 100,345 81,890
China, People's Republic 23,787 19,850 10,165 11,409 13,622 8,441
Canada 9,362 7,999 3,584 3,660 5,778 4,339
Philippines 7,582 5,304 2,020 1,863 5,562 3,441
South Korea 6,689 4,579 3,407 2,662 3,282 1,917
United Kingdom 4,629 3,535 2,573 2,013 2,056 1,522
Mexico 3,473 3,047 1,367 1,528 2,106 1,519
Japan 3,274 2,542 1,276 1,171 1,998 1,371
Taiwan 2,937 2,387 1,455 1,368 1,482 1,019
France 2,653 2,232 1,517 1,377 1,136 855
Pakistan 2,552 1,997 891 851 1,661 1,146
Germany 2,193 1,816 1,210 1,083 983 733
Turkey 2,161 1,774 967 989 1,194 785
Brazil 2,010 1,712 1,105 996 905 716
Nepal 1,566 1,636 719 932 847 704
Venezuela 1,734 1,494 846 807 888 687
Colombia 1,786 1,392 705 623 1,081 769
Italy 1,351 1,332 816 804 535 528
Russia 1,514 1,321 873 829 641 492
Spain 1,198 1,015 684 632 514 383 Other

No Aussies or Kiwis on that list Mate
Us Aussies share very similar values to Americans

Number 1 TV Program in Australia is the "BIG BANG THEORY"

Everyone in Australia loves Sheldon

[Damajin]

Wow, I don't think any phrase or idiom in the English language can accurately sum up this string of retarded statements. "Talking out of your ass" doesn't even come close.

Right hahaha. Everyone getting fucked over by this abusive use of the system it's on you, what a clown.

Nice Speed quote in the sig btw, if that's where you pulled it from.

[May90]

Dude your paper is not contradicting his. His is stating that H1-B has negative effects on native high-skill tech workers, while yours is arguing that welfare for US natives increases due to H1-B, but at the cost of native high-skill tech workers. In addition the Heritage foundation is propaganda.

Besides companies use H1-B to do this type of things:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/us...-overseas.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/11/us...-the-cold.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/us...mmigrants.html

It literally claims that H1B workers do not take away jobs from Americans; that's the point that was talked about. As for "propaganda... I guess everything you disagree with can be labeled as propaganda.

My point though is even if it wasn't true, it still wouldn't make sense to limit the number of issued H1Bs. Protectionism doesn't work well long term; one of the reasons First World countries are doing as well as they do is because of the free flow of work force. It is not completely free, but it probably will be free at some point, and it is already free within certain boundaries (such as EU, for example). "They are taking away our jobs" is a very poor argument, you can apply it to anything: "Remove the competitors from the scene, they are stealing my success!" - to see how bad it is. This isn't how a strong economy works; a strong economy doesn't shy away from challenges, it overcomes them and grows on them.

That's just my personal opinion though.

So you encourage people to be paid less and less because these H1B workers, I've had two friends lose theirs jobs and have been paid off to say nothing to press due to this shit. They bring these workers in and pay them a lot less and it's more cost effective for the company to pay off the local resident. But hey if they want to fuck the country over in the long term so be it, when everyone's making shit these companies will have nothing.

Nah, I say change the system in a way that will prevent this kind of exploiting. Not that it is abundant anyway: the vast majority of H1B visas are issued to people working in high-paid fields, so it really is an irrelevant argument. In the grand scheme of things, 65,000 yearly issued visas is nothing, when there is a hundreds-million job market. Even if a million H1B visas was issued yearly, it wouldn't affect unemployment more than within statistical uncertainty, while would create colossal benefits for businesses.

[PC2]

let those Americans who want to remain competitive improve their skills.

Out of curiosity are you against affirmative action?

You cant argue for merit while supporting AA.

[May90]

Out of curiosity are you against affirmative action?

You cant argue for merit while supporting AA.

I am against any kind of discrimination, so yes, of course I am against it.

Sad to see someone doing such a 180 into a corporate-fan role as soon as they stand to benefit from something.

Why not act to change things for the better in your own county? You're quick to lecture us on how we should do that instead of trying to change the rules, so what's your excuse?

What in the world are you blabbering about?

[May90]

I'm just wondering what's so bad about your country that makes you want to bail on it and work here. Why not work there?

Why not work there? Why work there? What kind of question is that? I left because I didn't like it there, and came here because I like it here. Do you need a personal statement or something?

[May90]

Why didn't you just work to improve things there? Why didn't you "just vote" to fix things? You know, those things that you so condescendingly tried to "explain" to those of us talking about H1B reform before.

Condescendingly? Boy, do you have a sensitive soul.

Why should I improve things there, as opposed to here? Why should I improve things anywhere at all? I don't get your question.

[Thoughtful Trolli]

Why didn't you just work to improve things there? Why didn't you "just vote" to fix things? You know, those things that you so condescendingly tried to "explain" to those of us talking about H1B reform before.

Easier to just run to some other country that other people worked to improve, I guess.

Yah, the argument seems to boil down to "Do whatever you can and h1b is great to foster competition and shouldn't suffer from protectionism" versus "We're not willing to change the laws to prevent people from potentially exploiting h1b or fix our own issues and would rather concentrate on eliminating h1b."

in that regard, the fact that these imported immigrants aren't using their skills to fix their own country but instead come to a better one prepared for them, and the spirit of capitalism itself, dictates that we should totally eliminate h1b and shunt out the immigrants because patriots should raise their competitive nature and employ all the tools they have to fix their own situation, which would ironically send those immigrants back to their own countries where their skills can help them better our neighbors and consequently be the most morale option around.

Terminate h1b, or whatever. I lost interest halfway through writing this, I just love pooping on everyone. Not literally though.