RIFT: Planar Fragments - dumb game design 101

[theWocky]

Wocky, as usual, going for the Howard Stern 'shock jock' approach crying "guis guis look lockboxes!! credits only!"

I'm not interested in a forum squabble.
I fail to see the relevance of what you are saying.

No-where did I imply "credits only". Nowhere.

How do you correlate your response / evidence with the fact that I linked the thread with that same picture?
You linked the pic with the lockboxes in that thread.

Did you read the Dev's response? His attempt at trying to justify the system?
Did you see that the majority of people still don't accept it as OK?

Fully aware you can purchase with the new voidstones. It's still further RNG on RNG.

You neglect to mention that besides being grindy that voidstones are CAPPED each week.

If you're going to put an item behind a rep and currency grind - why on earth put it as a random item in a lock box?
An item that may be completely worthless?

You're not this forum person "in game" - how do you defend this? You can't seriously be happy with this?

[Slipmat]

you are defending this blatant borderline pay to win system again.

Loooooool, what's "pay to win" this time now? the lockboxes? go on, tell me how those are P2W, i'll even give you a head start, you need Faction Reputation to even get them, you can't buy Rep.

how do you defend this? You can't seriously be happy with this?

I'm not defending anything, i'm merely pointing out the cold, hard facts that Devs, the people who actually know how it works, are posting how it works, i don't rely on mass hysteria by the same posters who complain and cry about everything.

I'm adopting a wait and see attitude, game is still 3 weeks away from release, the crafting system for infusing these fragments when you break them done isn't fully implemented yet, meanwhile i prefer to read posts by level headed posters who know how it will work, for example:

Dev Post: http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...ml#post5252523

The code is there, right now you can recycle fragments, but only fire ones will give loot, the rest don't have loot tables attached. And as for infusion, yeah, the pricing isn't set up at the moment for using the items you get from recycling.

Testing Player: http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...ml#post5254071

it is not their intention that you would boost a green or white frag past 6, blues and purples they expect players to stop at 9, only relics from raids and strongholds will be good enough to raise to 15 and by then you will be swimming in plats and salvage mats

Dev Post: http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...ml#post5253506

There's actually no RNG whatsoever in going from 14 to 15. The only RNG is from 0-12. 13-15 are static upgrades based on data

Any randomness associated with base-relic fragments is solely on which stat gets picked to upgrade. ie a level 0 relic fragment drops and has Strength, Dex, CP, Phys Crit. Those are locked in and won't change, the only thing that will change vs your friends' "identical" fragment is which stat is chosen at level 3/6/9/12 to be upgraded. Epic is the same but it gains a stat at 12 rather than another upgraded stat.

Main Dev post, linking it yet again:

http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...ml#post5253870

[Justpassing]

I didn't even know Rift was still going. Shrug.

[Eleccybubb]

Loooooool, what's "pay to win" this time now? the lockboxes? go on, tell me how those are P2W, i'll even give you a head start, you need Faction Reputation to even get them, you can't buy Rep.




I'm not defending anything, i'm merely pointing out the cold, hard facts that Devs, the people who actually know how it works, are posting how it works, i don't rely on mass hysteria by the same posters who complain and cry about everything.

I'm adopting a wait and see attitude, game is still 3 weeks away from release, the crafting system for infusing these fragments when you break them done isn't fully implemented yet, meanwhile i prefer to read posts by level headed posters who know how it will work, for example:

Dev Post: http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...ml#post5252523



Testing Player: http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...ml#post5254071



Dev Post: http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...ml#post5253506



Main Dev post, linking it yet again:

http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...ml#post5253870

I said borderline. Did I say it was fully? Nope.

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't even know Rift was still going. Shrug.

Doubt it will be for much longer. Devs keep making stupid decisions towards the game itself on a consistent basis and is basically a cash grab.

[Slipmat]

Doubt it will be for much longer.

Yep it'll be gone in 6 months, joined by Wildstar, joined by SW: ToR with their new Galactic Command scheme to get rid of F2P players, TERA is also gone, LoTR will be gone, Black Desert also gone from all the hacking and exploiting.....did i do it right with my predictions?

[Eleccybubb]

Yep it'll be gone in 6 months, joined by Wildstar, joined by SW: ToR with their new Galactic Command scheme to get rid of F2P players, TERA is also gone, LoTR will be gone, Black Desert also gone from all the hacking and exploiting.....did i do it right with my predictions?

Oh look Slipmat putting words in peoples mouths as usual. Not surprised. I imagine it will do if they continue down the arrogant cash grab road they are on but nowhere near as short as 6 months. I mean lets face it the game is hardly popular anymore as it is.

[Deleted]

That whole system is just Bad, but then looking at other changes its (at least for me) clear what direction they are going or want to,

Boss Loot for Credits/Restricted free daily rolls in Dungeons (But hey we now have personal loot) and i would bet my salary the same will happen in Raids later on.

Speaking about Dungeons, one of the "NEW" ones coming with the B2P Expansion, is an old one with basically the same stuff going on just more health/dmg

Awful changes to the Supporter Classes (LFR takes his first victim i guess ? *shrug)

and there isnt even a PvP Forum for the Beta Test, but im sure the balance between lvl65 and lvl70 Players will be tested, and bolstering will work perfectly :P


And thats just the tip of the Iceberg

[Jtbrig7390]

Yep it'll be gone in 6 months, joined by Wildstar, joined by SW: ToR with their new Galactic Command scheme to get rid of F2P players, TERA is also gone, LoTR will be gone, Black Desert also gone from all the hacking and exploiting.....did i do it right with my predictions?

No one said 6 months but personally I give it less then a year.

Want to know the difference between Wildstar/Rift and the rest of those games you listed. The rest are providing content and not trying to milk there playerbase to death. Wildstar lacks content and is bleeding players and so is Rift. Rift finally adds some much needed content and its covered in p2w bullshit.

LoTR is in maintenance mode and takes little to nothing to run compared to both Rift and Wildstar.

So ya if Wildstar and Rift keep up there current track record on how they treat the playerbase and content. Ill give both less then a year.

This expansion is not even close to ready for release. This system alone proves that in spades.

[Edge-]

Boss Loot for Credits/Restricted free daily rolls in Dungeons (But hey we now have personal loot) and i would bet my salary the same will happen in Raids later on.

...seriously? Sauce for this?

Speaking about Dungeons, one of the "NEW" ones coming with the B2P Expansion, is an old one with basically the same stuff going on just more health/dmg

Which new dungeon is it/which old dungeon is it basically the same as?

Awful changes to the Supporter Classes (LFR takes his first victim i guess ? *shrug)

Any in particular?

And thats just the tip of the Iceberg

Do go on, if you have more feedback. It's hard to find much in the way of meaningful impressions of the beta and the systems coming with expansion, so any info is appreciated.

[Deleted]

...seriously? Sauce for this?

http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...-dungeons.html

Which new dungeon is it/which old dungeon is it basically the same as?

Darkening Deeps, i have not played it my self, but yeah reading the thread its pretty much exactly the same (not even the hardmode version ...)

http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...g-deeps-_.html

Edit* Just saw that Gameplay/Beta run in the Forum, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPAo0uuVScU

Any in particular?

No more Powerchord/Wild growth debuff is gone, Orchestra/Lavafield/Enrage give a 5 min RaidCD and lasts 40s. And more

http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...abilities.html

Do go on, if you have more feedback. It's hard to find much in the way of meaningful impressions of the beta and the systems coming with expansion, so any info is appreciated.

Sadly there isnt really much else to talk about when it comes to new systems, its more about little changes like above, the overall state of the beta (for a release in a few weeks), the "silence" about the raid(s), etc. . Ok maybe the weird decisions about PvP stuff, making lvl65 fight lvl70 for the Release window(balance nightmare, but i guess it will be fun for a day or two, looking at Trions track record about fixing bolstering) and the change about when what WF is playable, because less Warfronts somehow make for better Gameplay...

[Slipmat]

I wonder how all the "knee jerkers" will react to this, like i'm constantly pointing out it's a BETA and everything is subject to testing/changing/deleting if it doesn't pan out right up to the last minute.

So, we listened to all of the feedback and did make a change to how secondary stats can appear on fragments. Caster and martial stats will never appear on the same fragment again. I'll post when this gets updated on PTS in a few days.

However, even with this change, that isn't to say that you can't have a DPS primary stat like say Attack Power that doesn't roll at tank stat like Guard or vice versa. That's gonna happen and we are fine with that happening. Just don't infuse it further and replace it with a better fragment later. If it drops that way, recycle it. You're gonna want the cores for infusing the fragments.

Also, you are still gonna get fragments that aren't for your calling. You guys asked for a way to progress your alts with your main character and this is a good way to do it. That is remaining unchanged just like fragments will still be bound to account so you can trade them to your alts.

Source: http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...ml#post5254637

What's that expression, "a storm in a teacup?"

Now onto the next "drama", personal loot and extra rolls on bosses

First, from the horse's mouth:

There is no contest over loot anymore. Most of the rewards are individual so you are never competing against someone else for loot.

Source: http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...ml#post5254564

Everyone gets their own loot, fine, great, it's personal, guaranteed to be useful for your calling, all gravy so far.

Now, you will also have "charges" that you can use to do an extra roll on a boss if there's a certain drop from that boss's loot table you want. This is the 'Individual Reward system'



You will recharge one of these every 8 hours and you'll be better off to use it on the last boss anyway as that's the boss that drops epics and the better planar fragments, so as well as getting your own individual loot, you have a chance to throw and extra roll on any boss loot you fancy.

I think it's a maximum of 5 charges, would have to rewatch the Live stream again to double check, also it seems these tokens are got by being a Patron and/or from the Rift Store, just like you can currently buy Dungeon charges, even as a F2P player

" Dev_Trion_Vladd : You get some from being a patron, some by default, some from calendar rewards, some from other streams and then you can get them from the store."

Brasse: "The thing is, if you've used up all your tokens, you have the option, not the obligation to buy more on the marketplace. And again all of that money gets put right back into development.

As some of you may be aware, you don't make a ton of money in the game industry. If you want to make lots of money, you leave this industry. So you know, cut us some slack, we just need to, It's a business, we have to keep it alive like anyone else. If anybody here works for free I'd like to know where you get your food from or how you pay for your housing"

Source: https://www.twitch.tv/trionworlds/v/96430024

Which new dungeon is it/which old dungeon is it basically the same as?

The third Dungeon is Intrepid Darkening Deeps in Gloamwood. Also said is that they're working on further Dungeons and raids, Trion never releases everything at the start of an Expansion.

There are plans for other things going on as well. All content isn't getting released day one. If you're in Discord, devs will occasionally pop in and ask random sanity check questions, or drop random images of things to come on us and whatnot. Expect these three on release, but I know they're working on more content. Whether it's prepping 10-mans or more 5-man stuff they can't talk about yet, IDK. But I know they're working on stuff.

Maybe it's time to start hanging out with the Devs on Discord.

[Eleccybubb]

Wow they made a somehow worse version of the bonus roll system as well. Didn't think it was actually possible to destroy a good system like that.

[Edge-]

http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...-dungeons.html

Eh, less concerned with more context, but don't like them directly monetizing bosses like that either. That's seriously pretty gross.

Darkening Deeps, i have not played it my self, but yeah reading the thread its pretty much exactly the same (not even the hardmode version ...)

http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...g-deeps-_.html

Edit* Just saw that Gameplay/Beta run in the Forum, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPAo0uuVScU

Holy shit...watched through the first boss and it's literally that dungeon...damn that's lazy.

No more Powerchord/Wild growth debuff is gone, Orchestra/Lavafield/Enrage give a 5 min RaidCD and lasts 40s. And more

http://forums.riftgame.com/starfall-...abilities.html

Not a fan of a lot of those changes, but they're not game killers for me, either.

Thanks for the links/info!

[Deleted]

What's that expression, "a storm in a teacup?"

So they are now from 100% RNG to 80% or so RNG, great its better, still an awful system for many, like me, and stuff like that dont get changed buy waiting for changes because "its only beta" it gets changed by feedback, or "knee jerking" as you called it

Now onto the next "drama", personal loot and extra rolls on bosses

Maybe you are ok with that way of getting loot, Im not. It limits my Playstyle (allready hard with 2-3 Dungeons at first only anyway) IF i dont want to pay, and since loot in rift dungeons is not bound to an ID, you can pretty much buy the best (dungeon) gear right at release date...

The third Dungeon is Intrepid Darkening Deeps in Gloamwood. Also said is that they're working on further Dungeons and raids, Trion never releases everything at the start of an Expansion.

Of course there will be more, but just the Fact that 1 of ONLY 3 (the lowest number of all expansion releases so far btw) is not new, and worse not even that, its not even 1 new boss and/or mechanic its 100% THE SAME DUNGEON. Not really that great a picture imo.

[Eleccybubb]

So they are now from 100% RNG to 80% or so RNG, great its better, still an awful system for many, like me, and stuff like that dont get changed buy waiting for changes because "its only beta" it gets changed by feedback, or "knee jerking" as you called it



Maybe you are ok with that way of getting loot, Im not. It limits my Playstyle (allready hard with 2-3 Dungeons at first only anyway) IF i dont want to pay, and since loot in rift dungeons is not bound to an ID, you can pretty much buy the best (dungeon) gear right at release date...




Of course there will be more, but just the Fact that 1 of ONLY 3 (the lowest number of all expansion releases so far btw) is not new, and worse not even that, its not even 1 new boss and/or mechanic its 100% THE SAME DUNGEON. Not really that great a picture imo.

Please it's 1 month to release. Major shit should have been dealt with already but it hasn't been and the game looks unfinished as hell. People are literally buying an early beta at this point.

[theWocky]

...seriously? Sauce for this?

"source"

He He, I had a chuckle at this at your expense.

When I get flustered, I very, very often resort to substituting words with those that sound phonetically similar.

I once wrote to an attorney immediately after having an argument - they design of the walls are "floored". ie "flawed" and numerous other substitutions that made me think when I read it "who on earth wrote this letter?"

[endersblade]

I can't fucking facepalm hard enough. I am so glad I left that game before it went F2P.

[Jtbrig7390]

I wonder how all the "knee jerkers" will react to this, like i'm constantly pointing out it's a BETA and everything is subject to testing/changing/deleting if it doesn't pan out right up to the last minute.

You do realize nothing major changes 1 month before release right?

[Eleccybubb]

I can't fucking facepalm hard enough. I am so glad I left that game before it went F2P.

Initial f2p was actually good. Then they started getting as grabby with the cash as they could to the point that content started to come out buggy. Worst part is as well the community. Can't be critical in any way of Trion on their forums these days and it is basically a haven for the "hardcore fans". It's sad.

[Edge-]

*snip*

On the fragments, the fact that it made it to the beat is already troublesome. Glad they've fixed it but we're what...3 weeks before launch?

Regarding loot, I get it's personalized now, but I really dislike how they're monetizing it now. That seems really scummy to me overall, though I've been alright with them selling dungeon loot directly so being too harsh on it would make me a bit of a hypocrite.

I like Brasse, but I still can't really get behind this new system. I wish she'd landed somewhere not gross after getting the axe from Daybreak.

Ah, that makes a bit more sense but hot damn is it still super duper disappointing. In terms of post launch, duh. Literally nobody has ever questioned that there will be patches post launch for this expansion as there have been for any other expansion, not sure why you even bring it up. But that doesn't alter what's being delivered at launch for their up-front asking price.

- - - Updated - - -

"source"

He He, I had a chuckle at this at your expense.

When I get flustered, I very, very often resort to substituting words with those that sound phonetically similar.

I once wrote to an attorney immediately after having an argument - they design of the walls are "floored". ie "flawed" and numerous other substitutions that made me think when I read it "who on earth wrote this letter?"

Naw, very intentional on my part. I enjoy asking for sauce rather than a source : )