[Resto] Heroic EN Logs Feedback

[Priya-tan]

Just another 'help me not suck at healing' thread.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...HvJVL/#fight=1

Please leave any feedback about better talent options, etc. I know I need to improve my LB uptime; I've been working on that as well as my artifact skill uptime. I haven't raided 'seriously' since Wrath so it's been a long time.

Thanks in advance

[Laurathansal]

It was impossible for me to look at all the fights, but to look into your general play style, I analysed your Nythendra Heroic kill, and compared with a random resto druid from the top-200 on warcraft logs.

Judging from what I can tell, I'd say you are running out of mana early in many fights.

What I clearly see:
- Spec - You are using Germination in raids. This is wrong for most encounters. It will drain your mana and also you will use up way too many GCD's. You should use either Inner peace or the Efflorescence one (cant remember name). I personally use Inner peace, as it's an upgrade on the best healing cooldown in the game.

- Overhealing - You are doing nearly 40% overheal! More importantly, Tranquility overhealing for 60% is a clear poor use of it. Use it when people are low, and try to rotate cooldowns with other healers. I also see Swiftmend and Efflorescence with very high overhealing! You need to use those spells when they are needed, not just for the sake of it! If you're not sure where to drop efflo, a normal good bet is to use it on the tanks.

- Lifebloom uptime - You need to bring this number up closer to 80-90%. It will give you more Omen of Clarity procs. It also heals for a decent amount. Make sure you let it bloom, or refresh it only when there's 5 seconds or less duration on it, to ensure it blooms.


I hope it helps.

Regards

[Littlefinger]

my logs: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...9&type=healing

You can look at my Herioc Nyth from last night. I find using my CDs when the Tank's rot gets spread across the raid. Either tranq or my WG/Artifact/Flourish. Other than that keeping Efflo down and spot healing w/ rejuv and clarity procs.

-LittleFinger- Illidan - Few of a Kind

[Priya-tan]

It was impossible for me to look at all the fights, but to look into your general play style, I analysed your Nythendra Heroic kill, and compared with a random resto druid from the top-200 on warcraft logs.

Judging from what I can tell, I'd say you are running out of mana early in many fights.

What I clearly see:
- Spec - You are using Germination in raids. This is wrong for most encounters. It will drain your mana and also you will use up way too many GCD's. You should use either Inner peace or the Efflorescence one (cant remember name). I personally use Inner peace, as it's an upgrade on the best healing cooldown in the game.

- Overhealing - You are doing nearly 40% overheal! More importantly, Tranquility overhealing for 60% is a clear poor use of it. Use it when people are low, and try to rotate cooldowns with other healers. I also see Swiftmend and Efflorescence with very high overhealing! You need to use those spells when they are needed, not just for the sake of it! If you're not sure where to drop efflo, a normal good bet is to use it on the tanks.

- Lifebloom uptime - You need to bring this number up closer to 80-90%. It will give you more Omen of Clarity procs. It also heals for a decent amount. Make sure you let it bloom, or refresh it only when there's 5 seconds or less duration on it, to ensure it blooms.


I hope it helps.

Regards

Thanks so much for the feedback! It's a great help.

Regarding the SM/Efflor overhealing, can you give some insight as to when SM is more 'needed'? I use it to get quick heals to people that are lower and to try and get SotF for boosted WG. I do think there are cases where I use it when someone isn't very low just to get that SotF buff, so I can certainly cut down on that.

- - - Updated - - -

my logs: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...9&type=healing

You can look at my Herioc Nyth from last night. I find using my CDs when the Tank's rot gets spread across the raid. Either tranq or my WG/Artifact/Flourish. Other than that keeping Efflo down and spot healing w/ rejuv and clarity procs.

-LittleFinger- Illidan - Few of a Kind

Thanks for sharing your logs! Very helpful to compare and contrast against

[Deleted]

Thanks so much for the feedback! It's a great help.

Regarding the SM/Efflor overhealing, can you give some insight as to when SM is more 'needed'? I use it to get quick heals to people that are lower and to try and get SotF for boosted WG. I do think there are cases where I use it when someone isn't very low just to get that SotF buff, so I can certainly cut down on that.

Have just briefly looked through your looks. First off - enchant your gear and get gems. And secondly do you have any other trinkets?

Also like Laurathansal you have to look over your talent choices. Also when I look at your swiftment/wg usage I get the feeling that you are not 100% comfortably using it. Which normally is a combination of lacking knowledge of the fight (i.e when is the damage comming). Sometimes you use your swiftmend to empower a revju and miss the raidwide dmg a few seconds later or you have just used WG or cast WG to late.

For you I would recommend going the "cookie cutter" build of running Cenarion Ward/Inner peace/Cultivation. And when you feel comfortable with the fights you can start switching talents around.

Also try and setup a healing cd rotation if you don't already have done so, which is almost required PM me if you want some help with that. You could also try and drop 1 healer.

[Alltat]

Cooldown use could be improved. Tranquility is overall okay (but you held it back unnecessarily long on Nythendra). You're good at using the staff, but you don't use Flourish nearly as often as you could. Ironbark could be used more, and don't forget Barkskin for predictable damage. In addition to keeping you alive, it also means you need less healing, freeing up time to heal others instead.

Innervate doesn't get used nearly as much as it could be. Try to always use it during the first minute of a fight, then again as soon as it's up. Don't wait until your mana drops low; as long as you're below 90%, it's useful. Also make sure you fill every GCD during it, and try to time it so that you can cast both Efflorescence and Wild Growth while they're free. Ideally you cast it right before you need to move or refresh Efflo, then spam Rejuvenation/Regrowth and cast Wild Growth whenever possible.

Wild Growth deserves more love. It's actually more mana efficient than Rejuvenation, so it should be your top priority if multiple people need healing. On a fight like Ursoc, you should be at about twice the number of casts that you had. Mana shouldn't be too much of a problem, as you had mana left at the end of the fight without having to drink any potion. Making better use of Innervate will also ensure that you have more mana to spend on WG.

Germination is arguably useful on some mythic fights, but not on heroic. The fight against Il'gynoth lasted 9 minutes and 10 seconds and you used it once during that time. It was a little bit more justified on the dragons where the raid splits, but still not very. On the subject of talents, I also recommend using Guardian Affinity instead.

Regarding the SM/Efflor overhealing, can you give some insight as to when SM is more 'needed'? I use it to get quick heals to people that are lower and to try and get SotF for boosted WG. I do think there are cases where I use it when someone isn't very low just to get that SotF buff, so I can certainly cut down on that.

It's fine now. Looking at all pulls, you're averaging about 20% overhealing with Swiftmend. Given the number of healers you have, that's the lowest it's realistically going to get. It can go much lower if you're using very few healers (I've had fights where it did no overhealing at all), especially if you don't use SotF and have more freedom in when to use it, but right now you have too many healers to be able to worry about overhealing.

[Laurathansal]

Thanks so much for the feedback! It's a great help.

Regarding the SM/Efflor overhealing, can you give some insight as to when SM is more 'needed'? I use it to get quick heals to people that are lower and to try and get SotF for boosted WG. I do think there are cases where I use it when someone isn't very low just to get that SotF buff, so I can certainly cut down on that.

- - - Updated - - -



Thanks for sharing your logs! Very helpful to compare and contrast against

I understand you using SM to boost your WG and therefore overhealing a bit on SM. But other spells are also overhealing by a lot, and what that tells me, is that you are perhaps trying to "race" other healers on the meters, and not focus on what your actual job is.

Do you know when I became a better healer, and actually surpassing everyone on the meters? When I started switching them off during combat (there's an option for that on Recount and Skada). This way I focus solely on the fight, and only see meters at the end. Focusing on meters is another unnecessary burden that only serves to stop you doing what you're there to do, which is healing!

Another piece of advice:
- Do you know that moment, when the whole raid looses half of its health, and you have the urge to start healing everyone up? You intantly start SM + WG, then spreading 10+ Rejuvs, and doing your best to be the one healer to do most healing on that moment, but where does that get you? It will get you out of mana, that's what It will do. In those moments, use only your best and most efficient spells (SM + WG, Efflorescence, tranquility if really necessary, and a couple of rejuvs).

Always keep in mind that ideally, you will run out of mana exactly at the same time the boss dies. Get used to this playstyle, and make sure all your spells are used to their highest efficiency, and you'll see yourself improving.

I'd be happy to continue looking at your logs, If you want to continue posting them.

Cheers

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You could also try and drop 1 healer.

This is one thing that also occurred to me!

[nubzaii313]

Everyone are talking about the Soul of the Forest talent + WG. With patch 7.1 buff of Cultivation, Soul of the Forest is the last possible choice on that level.Just see with what the big boys are playing /www dot warcraftlogs dotcom/rankings/10#metric=hps&class=Druid&spec=Restoration. And what you expect to do in a fight with 6 healers in 24 raid WTF ? This fight is easily doable with only 4 healers.

[Laurathansal]

Everyone are talking about the Soul of the Forest talent + WG. With patch 7.1 buff of Cultivation, Soul of the Forest is the last possible choice on that level.Just see with what the big boys are playing /www dot warcraftlogs dotcom/rankings/10#metric=hps&class=Druid&spec=Restoration. And what you expect to do in a fight with 6 healers in 24 raid WTF ? This fight is easily doable with only 4 healers.

SotF is not the last possible choice. It is still the default choice for most encounters. Cultivation is niche, as it does not work except under certain conditions. Top tier druids use it because the guilds they are in reduce the number of healers to add more dps. If you're in one of these guilds, then Cultivation gains a lot of power because it will be usable in more encounters. But even then, all these druids switch talents on the fly, so no point even talking about their talents.

SofT works in every condition, and you can use it on boosted rejuvenations or regrowths too.

Even Tree of life is better than cultivation for most fights, as it is also adaptable to all encounters. You can use it to boost your healing, save mana, or both.

[JonBeMerkin]

It was impossible for me to look at all the fights, but to look into your general play style, I analysed your Nythendra Heroic kill, and compared with a random resto druid from the top-200 on warcraft logs.

Judging from what I can tell, I'd say you are running out of mana early in many fights.

This has to be funniest shit i've read on Mmo-champion in a week hahaha!!!!

Of course compared to the top 200 hes going to run out of mana because mostly all of the healers on the top charts have gotten there from spamming heals brainlessly and getting 3+ innervates.

Judging from what I can tell, I'd say you are running out of mana early in many fights

YATHINK lol!

[Alltat]

I understand you using SM to boost your WG and therefore overhealing a bit on SM. But other spells are also overhealing by a lot, and what that tells me, is that you are perhaps trying to "race" other healers on the meters, and not focus on what your actual job is.

When you have that many healers in the raid, it's not racing. There are just so many healers that people get topped up before your HoTs have time to tick much. So you end up overhealing. But you keep spreading HoTs, because it's the only marginally useful thing you can do unless you have a good DPS offspec. Keeping everyone at 100% health instead of 90% means they're marginally less likely to die from doing something dumb.

- Do you know that moment, when the whole raid looses half of its health, and you have the urge to start healing everyone up? You intantly start SM + WG, then spreading 10+ Rejuvs, and doing your best to be the one healer to do most healing on that moment, but where does that get you?

It gets you progression kills. Because when you're learning the fight, someone is going to stumble into something and take a hit for 60% of their health, and the sooner you can get everyone back up the less likely it is that anyone dies. Also there's nothing else you can do. If people are stacked up enough for Efflorescence to make sense, you'd have it down already. Wild Growth is your most mana efficient spell, so you want to cast that anyway. And then the only thing you can cast is Rejuvenation, which is cheap enough that you can more or less cast it all day long.

The only thing you can really do differently here is to add in short cooldowns like Flourish and G'hanir if they're up. That'll both get people up quicker and save you some mana.

Always keep in mind that ideally, you will run out of mana exactly at the same time the boss dies.

That's sort of not true and also not true. First of all it's optimistic, and you need a buffer for mistakes (yours and others'), so aim to end at ~20% mana. Secondly, casting spells right before the boss dies doesn't really do anything, as those spells won't get to tick anyway. The theoretically ideal scenario is to run out of mana roughly ten seconds before the boss dies, and then those last few seconds doing DPS while your HoTs tick.

Cultivation is niche, as it does not work except under certain conditions.

And those certain conditions are "any time there's any chance that anyone will actually die". Cultivation is useless if you run with too many healers and you're just there as decoration or as a backup in case another healer gets themselves killed, but in that case it doesn't matter what talents you pick. You might as well not pick any talents at all, because the only way you can fail is if you get disconnected. With raid setups where all healers are expected to actually perform, Cultivation is lovely. This applies regardless of difficulty - I've had Cultivate contributing 7-8% of my healing even on normal farm kills (running with two healers for 15+ people).

Really, if Cultivation isn't good then you should consider just going DPS. It won't always be the best for every fight, but it should always be very competitive.

[Priya-tan]

Thanks again all for all of your insight! I feel like I have a much better grasp on how to fine-tune my healing and really improve my play.

I understand you using SM to boost your WG and therefore overhealing a bit on SM. But other spells are also overhealing by a lot, and what that tells me, is that you are perhaps trying to "race" other healers on the meters, and not focus on what your actual job is.

Do you know when I became a better healer, and actually surpassing everyone on the meters? When I started switching them off during combat (there's an option for that on Recount and Skada). This way I focus solely on the fight, and only see meters at the end. Focusing on meters is another unnecessary burden that only serves to stop you doing what you're there to do, which is healing!

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This is one thing that also occurred to me!

Yes, you are 100% right. To be transparent, we have been running with a resto shaman that pretty regularly shits on the other healers and brags about being #1 on the charts (shaman in question is Frylokk in those logs), so that night I was 'stressing' to try and keep up so that I didn't get berated. It's stupid to look at meters during the fight and I have since then been making a concentrated effort to keep them closed during the fight and only view them after the raid via WC Logs.

Regarding the extra healers... I agree, but it's unfortunately not my call to make, haha.

[Laurathansal]

This has to be funniest shit i've read on Mmo-champion in a week hahaha!!!!

Of course compared to the top 200 hes going to run out of mana because mostly all of the healers on the top charts have gotten there from spamming heals brainlessly and getting 3+ innervates.

Judging from what I can tell, I'd say you are running out of mana early in many fights

YATHINK lol!

I'm sad to hear

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When you have that many healers in the raid, it's not racing. There are just so many healers that people get topped up before your HoTs have time to tick much. So you end up overhealing. But you keep spreading HoTs, because it's the only marginally useful thing you can do unless you have a good DPS offspec. Keeping everyone at 100% health instead of 90% means they're marginally less likely to die from doing something dumb.


It gets you progression kills. Because when you're learning the fight, someone is going to stumble into something and take a hit for 60% of their health, and the sooner you can get everyone back up the less likely it is that anyone dies. Also there's nothing else you can do. If people are stacked up enough for Efflorescence to make sense, you'd have it down already. Wild Growth is your most mana efficient spell, so you want to cast that anyway. And then the only thing you can cast is Rejuvenation, which is cheap enough that you can more or less cast it all day long.

The only thing you can really do differently here is to add in short cooldowns like Flourish and G'hanir if they're up. That'll both get people up quicker and save you some mana.


That's sort of not true and also not true. First of all it's optimistic, and you need a buffer for mistakes (yours and others'), so aim to end at ~20% mana. Secondly, casting spells right before the boss dies doesn't really do anything, as those spells won't get to tick anyway. The theoretically ideal scenario is to run out of mana roughly ten seconds before the boss dies, and then those last few seconds doing DPS while your HoTs tick.



And those certain conditions are "any time there's any chance that anyone will actually die". Cultivation is useless if you run with too many healers and you're just there as decoration or as a backup in case another healer gets themselves killed, but in that case it doesn't matter what talents you pick. You might as well not pick any talents at all, because the only way you can fail is if you get disconnected. With raid setups where all healers are expected to actually perform, Cultivation is lovely. This applies regardless of difficulty - I've had Cultivate contributing 7-8% of my healing even on normal farm kills (running with two healers for 15+ people).

Really, if Cultivation isn't good then you should consider just going DPS. It won't always be the best for every fight, but it should always be very competitive.

I understand your points. Regarding the situation where you don't use your most efficient solution to bring someone back up, I say this because in the old days (when mana didn't matter, only reaction times) that was the case. Nowadays, If you find yourself regrowthing those dps'ers who forget Nythendra has a breath, you will be OOM very quick. It's a lot better to teach those guys that really, they should know better.

When you mention progression, I assume you mean tougher fights and tougher mechanics, and with that I agree. We're here to heal people, and that's it.

Also, your point on Cultivation: Again, some us of raid in guilds who don't have the luxury of a solid healer team. Some of us are great, while some others less so. Furthermore, If you're farming 6/7 on EN and progressing on Xavius, and only use one set of talents per raid (a lot of us don't respec mid raid), then it's best to use talents that will work for 100% of the time. Especially for beginner - intermediate players, it's best to get acostumed to a playstyle where everything is working in your favour "passively" first, before getting into details.

It's like the difference between being able to drive a car, and being a racing driver. Some of us aren't there yet, so stick to the basics.

Cheers