Why do casuals need gear?

[kary]

A simple answer from my behalf: for world / outdoor PvP to stand a chance vs. mythic-geared PvE abusers.

It's not wpvp lovers' fault that this time Blizzard decided to support PvE crabs and make PvE gear vastly superior in PvP outside PvP instances (unlike WoD where PvP gear scaled up in PvP combat anywhere in the game).

People say that a more or less skilled PvPer will still have the upper hand and win vs. untrained PvE player despite 20-30 gear levels... However, in case of some specs with huge burst and OP PvE trinkets this is just not true - NO SKILL can help when the opponent, having 25-30+ gear levels can just 1-shot you with random OMGMEGADAMAGE+CRIT attacks because you also have like 1.5 million health less than him...

That's why someone like I, who haven't done serious PvE since Wrath (!), had to start running Mythic Dungeons with keystones and HC+ Raiding... Which is kinda sad. At least the dungeon / raid content in Legion is very good.

Skilled pvpers (high ratings) get gear that's greater than or equal to heroic raid gear from wins as of this patch.
No good pvp gear? git gud.

[Ermelloth]

Skilled pvpers (high ratings) get gear that's greater than or equal to heroic raid gear from wins as of this patch.
No good pvp gear? git gud.

Those who have high arena ratings aren't casuals to begin with. Those having 2200+ Arena experience are devoted players, who played thousands of Arena matches, thus usually having all the needed accessories (various gaming mice, special keyboards and other devices) and voice comm programs.

Who is a casual PvP'er? Someone who doesn't have enough time to play 3s / RBG on regular basis and can afford maximum few skirmishes / random BGs per week, thus doesn't have constant Arena partners.

Which is exactly my case today, for example - in the past, when I haven't been that busy IRL (job, family, pregnant wife, etc.), I used to be in a guild which ran Rated Battlegrounds and even got a few RBG titles with it. Today there is no way I can handle anything like this - too little time to play. I used to play Arena with some friends (up to 2k rating here and there), but nearly all of them quit the game since then. And we were never that good to get past 2.4k to begin with.

In current expansion to get a piece of gear from PvP which will be at least equal to HC raiding one, you need to get above 2k and even there it is a pure RNG (not unlike in previous expansions when you earned Conq points and could buy everything yourself). So even high ratings don't guarantee you actually get anything you need.

[kary]

Those who have high arena ratings aren't casuals to begin with. Those having 2200+ Arena experience are devoted players, who played thousands of Arena matches, thus usually having all the needed accessories (various gaming mice, special keyboards and other devices) and voice comm programs.

Who is a casual PvP'er? Someone who doesn't have enough time to play 3s / RBG on regular basis and can afford maximum few skirmishes / random BGs per week, thus doesn't have constant Arena partners.

Which is exactly my case today, for example - in the past, when I haven't been that busy IRL (job, family, pregnant wife, etc.), I used to be in a guild which ran Rated Battlegrounds and even got a few RBG titles with it. Today there is no way I can handle anything like this - too little time to play. I used to play Arena with some friends (up to 2k rating here and there), but nearly all of them quit the game since then. And we were never that good to get past 2.4k to begin with.

In current expansion to get a piece of gear from PvP which will be at least equal to HC raiding one, you need to get above 2k and even there it is a pure RNG (not unlike in previous expansions when you earned Conq points and could buy everything yourself). So even high ratings don't guarantee you actually get anything you need.

So you can't get gear b/c you aren't good enough for better gear? What's the issue?

[mysticx]

How? Its very rare to get any loot over 845 except in raids and mythic dungeons.

War- and titanforged gear, and luck with world bosses, i hit itemlevel 851 yesterday (Got a nice 860 cloak off the world boss, no legendaries yet though) and i also didn't do anything beyond queue-able content.

It also seems that higher base-level rewards crop up from WQs in 7.1, i have seen ilevel 845 rewards for open world WQs (not dungeon ones), so getting high-level stuff is getting a bit faster now.

[Deleted]

I'll state it again, casuals need gear, because Blizzard has conditioned them through the many years of WoW into "needing" it. Thus when they do not get it, or have at least a path to acquiring it they unsubscribe. So while they don't have to have access to the best gear available (and they shouldn't) if they do not have a path to improve their character, they get bored, unsubscribe and Blizzard loses money.

Blizzard created this culture. They are perpetuating it.

Nothing else needs to be added. I'm not against gear path alternatives for casuals (even though it shouldn't be mythic level) but this whole "gear gear gear" is so sad it makes you wonder if people play the game for this sole reason. I've never seen in other games such obsession over the carrot on a stick treadmill. People generally play games to have fun, they don't need a bullshit excuse of "progression" to have fun. Progression is normally done through completing content, the reward is the journey not the chest at the end. But seems WoW and other MMOs have conditioned a part of the gaming community into a mindless Skinner box design. And people are too addicted to even notice how foolish it is to fall into this cheap trap.

Thats why MMO are failing because they just rely on this now, like any garbage facebook game. The majority would leave the game if there wasn't this carrot on a stick. A game that needs that to make people play is no good game, its just a quick fix.

[Sierra85]

everyone needs gear. its why we're all playing the game, to make our characters stronger.

[Deleted]

And yes I'm ultra casual before someone spouts some stupid binary argument "wah you are a naughty elitist". I don't, I hate elitism in game. But I also hate how this game has just become a stupid carrot on a stick and nothing else, there is no interest in the lore, the adventure, the mysteries, its just a numbers game and a dick wavering game now since Blizzard conditioned people into being showered with rewards and self congratulatory schemes.

[Deleted]

everyone needs gear. its why we're all playing the game, to make our characters stronger.

Exactly, that's what it is, and nothing more; character progression.

[prwraith]

I got triggered when I read the latest Q&A and this guy is asking blizz why he can't get higher than 850 without going into dungeons? He goes on to say that they need a "casual in their office telling them every day that he has nothing to do". If you don't want to do instanced PvE or PvP YOU DON'T NEED GEAR! If you are really that "casual" why do you need a HARDCORE ILVL!?!? go farm mounts or pets or xmogs or does that require an 880 ilvl? If you don't want to play WoW than don't play WoW don't whine and complain that it isn't Hello Kitty Island Adventure. I work AND go to school full time and I'm 855 ilvl and ready for karazan tomorrow. I'm a casual by my own definition and I never feel entitled to gear.


TLR Want gear? Get good. You don't deserve anything from WQ.

You got triggered ?

I thought we had purged all the defective humans

[Deleted]

everyone needs gear. its why we're all playing the game, to make our characters stronger.

Yes but you could except something more out of an MMO right? Otherwise the game is just as empty and dull as any hack n slash. RPGs never were about just getting stronger for the sake of it. Roleplaying is dead and the MMO as in "dynamic living world" is dead too.

Why not make the game a lobby queue where you get loot at the end of a tunnel, wouldn't change a damn thing if people only obsess over virtual numbers on their character. Thats the cheapest form of "powering up" you can find in any game.

[Sierra85]

Why not make the game a lobby queue where you get loot at the end of a tunnel, wouldn't change a damn thing if people only obsess over virtual numbers on their character. Thats the cheapest form of "powering up" you can find in any game.

and yet you've basically just outlined World of Warcraft. People playing a computer game, collecting gear and improving their characters over time.

[Slippery Gypsy]

This sounds like something @Frolk would post. Damn this is going to get locked so quickly.

Still not locked winky face

[Otimus]

Yes but you could except something more out of an MMO right? Otherwise the game is just as empty and dull as any hack n slash. RPGs never were about just getting stronger for the sake of it. Roleplaying is dead and the MMO as in "dynamic living world" is dead too.

Why not make the game a lobby queue where you get loot at the end of a tunnel, wouldn't change a damn thing if people only obsess over virtual numbers on their character. Thats the cheapest form of "powering up" you can find in any game.

That's more or less what WoW is now.

[Selky]

Maybe it wouldn't be such a problem if it wasn't for Blizzard pushing casual players into Mythic and the horrendous group finder.

[chronia]

Maybe it wouldn't be such a problem if it wasn't for Blizzard pushing casual players into Mythic and the horrendous group finder.

Whats so horrendous about the groupfinder? I find t very well useable when i use it, which is not to often (mostly for raiding on alt) as mostly i run with friends and guildies except for some alt raiding.

The only issue i could see with the group finder is dat some players behave terrible in it, but thats not a issue with the group finder but with the game community itself.

[tikcol]

Plebs need a progression system, a few people think that system includes the best gear available.

Wrong.

[Devilyaki]

My alt is my highest item level character at 858, and has done zero mythic 5 mans and only lfr raid, my main that's done a step up with a few mythics and the odd normal raid is 857. The gear is there for over 850s, but I see what they mean, feel the wall hit

[mysticx]

Whats so horrendous about the groupfinder? I find t very well useable when i use it, which is not to often (mostly for raiding on alt) as mostly i run with friends and guildies except for some alt raiding.

The only issue i could see with the group finder is dat some players behave terrible in it, but thats not a issue with the group finder but with the game community itself.

The issue is that the group finder allows said terrible behaviour to seriously affect other players, chat in LfD/LfR can be switched off, but there's no way to get around the decline-wall players built up in the group finder.

Improving the community isn't Blizzard's job (I doubt they can do anything about the horrible community anyway), but when they put content in that can only be run through the group finder where players call the shots, while knowing what a horrible bunch those players are, that's something we can blame on Blizzard...

[Deleted]

How does one measure skill if one refuses to do anything that's not a WQ? Wasnt this the entire point from the OP?

If you get no admission to groups because they think that you are not "geared enough", then you practically cannot show your skill. It was easier to get into higher difficulty content when there was no gearscore. I had no problems with finding groups on my mage in BC, and got into a raid guild easily after applying in their forum and a test run. Was then on the team who killed Archimonde in MH first time with that guild.

- - - Updated - - -

Nothing else needs to be added. I'm not against gear path alternatives for casuals (even though it shouldn't be mythic level) but this whole "gear gear gear" is so sad it makes you wonder if people play the game for this sole reason. I've never seen in other games such obsession over the carrot on a stick treadmill. People generally play games to have fun, they don't need a bullshit excuse of "progression" to have fun. Progression is normally done through completing content, the reward is the journey not the chest at the end. But seems WoW and other MMOs have conditioned a part of the gaming community into a mindless Skinner box design. And people are too addicted to even notice how foolish it is to fall into this cheap trap.

Thats why MMO are failing because they just rely on this now, like any garbage facebook game. The majority would leave the game if there wasn't this carrot on a stick. A game that needs that to make people play is no good game, its just a quick fix.

It's not only Blizzard, it's the community. If you only get into random groups because you overgear the item level of items which drop there, even if you don't have to fear ninja looters because of personal loot, then there is something wrong.

[chronia]

The issue is that the group finder allows said terrible behaviour to seriously affect other players, chat in LfD/LfR can be switched off, but there's no way to get around the decline-wall players built up in the group finder.

Improving the community isn't Blizzard's job (I doubt they can do anything about the horrible community anyway), but when they put content in that can only be run through the group finder where players call the shots, while knowing what a horrible bunch those players are, that's something we can blame on Blizzard...

But which content can only be ran trough the group finder? There are these things called guilds and friendlists that have operated as a perfectly fine "group finder" since Vanilla. The groupfinder is not the only option, its just a extra tool to have more options. That people start using the groupfinder as the first and foremost "go to" tool is in my opinion part of the problem within the community. You should always have your guild and friends first, and then the group finder if you really play at awkward times, miss that one person for a run e.t.c. or your guild might not have a alt run setup or something. Ppl should really make more use of the social tools available to them, they can actually make the game alot more fun, i'm still playing with ppl that i've met ingame since the start of vanilla, even though we might now be in different guilds or even on different serversdue to whatever reason, we are still able to play and have fun due to the social tools available to us. And even using the group finder has led me to meet and make new friends to do stuff with.

The only point where i would actually see that groupfinder as the "go to" tool is when you are in the situation due to work or w/e where you cannot commit to a raid schedule and you pug raids trough the groupfinder. But even then there are alternative tools like openraid e.t.c. that often have a more friendly approach.