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  1. #41
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by mireigi View Post
    Equal only so far that they are competitive. Certain classes, and specs for that matter, should be slightly ahead of others for their designated role. That in turn means that any class that can fill multiple roles, whether through a different spec, or through cross-role abilities within the same spec, should be slightly behind classes that can only perform a single role, regardless of spec. Otherwise, why bother playing a pure class?
    It's like we're back in Vanilla. If hybrid classes can't perform as well as non hybrid classes then what's the point of bringing them?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    So, gearing over 2 to 3 weeks because you swapped to a different spec is somehow less difficult then equipping a new artifact and dumping 3 or 4 days worth of AP grind into it to get roughly 95% of what your main spec artifact has?

    The math there doesnt add up.

    I play pretty casually, on probably the WORST class to multispec on (druid, we have FOUR artifacts to play the catchup game with instead of just 3) and it took me all of about 3 days to bring my Boomkin artifact within 3 Trait points of my Main Guardian artifact (thats like 1 full minor trait. A marginal loss vs your other spec at best). If you keep ontop of your artifact knowledge research, it becomes VERY easy to play catch up.

    Pretty much nothing stops you from collecting stat appropriate gear for any of your other, unused, specs untill you need them, then you just throw it on, equip your artifact, dump a few days worth of AP grind into it, and you will be practically on par with your original main spec relatively quickly.
    Depends where you are at with your main spec. If you are stuck at what...rank 20 your artifact, sure.

    However, note that the cost for each point spent in the artifact rises exponentially (particularly after the 13th) as you unlock them. Unlocking two golden traits is still a chore but easily manageable. Now I ask you to look further, to someone who sunk all their AP into one spec over the course of many months. If you look at a maxed rank 34 artifact, which requires a total of 5,216,130 AP, I ask you to show me the math how you want to get your secondary spec to 95% performance of the mainspec in 3-4 days (even with maxed AK), all this while we haven't even mentioned the bonus traits which provide a flat % increase to output.

    Show me how you grind that in 3-4 days and I will be forever grateful to you.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    So nerf the strongest specs and buff the weakest specs. How audacious.
    Completely unreasonable ! Fuck those classes, my class hit the top I want it to stay there !

    Serisouly though, fire mages are always the same, weak as shit to start the expac then tearing up the final tier

  4. #44
    Artifact is not the problem, legendaries are.

  5. #45
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zmago View Post
    What effect does FOTM not existing have on FOTM-players existing?
    They didn't just drop dead once Legion hit; hence they still are there and start threads like this one.
    (Now i am not saying they should die; i'm just pointing out how your reply doesn't make sense)



    I agree with the rest of the post; but this part might be slightly too much for your average player with a job and daily chores.
    I think AK level of 11 would be more real. And the daily gain of about 80k is to be expected. Which still makes the catch-up easy enough to actually pull off.

    hence why i said that a person with a daily job etc - should not be focusing on doing "top meter dps" so that his dps doesn't matter.

    your triats, whats op, whats not doesn't matter if you don't have the time for it anyway.

  6. #46
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ewyndall View Post
    Show me how you grind that in 3-4 days and I will be forever grateful to you.
    You can't do it in 3-4 days, from 0-30 traits (at least not yet). However, you don't need to. If the spec that you are changing to is significantly above the spec you currently play, you can just switch. If its not better, then you don't switch until it is. I don't see the problem.

    This is the issue that hybrid DPS have had to deal with since forever. If you are a poor Elemental Shaman you have no choice, you have to suck it up and deal with it and pray to blizzard. If you are a Mage, you can just suck it up for a week or two, get your second artifact to a "good enough" point and swap.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Rotted View Post
    Completely unreasonable ! Fuck those classes, my class hit the top I want it to stay there !

    Serisouly though, fire mages are always the same, weak as shit to start the expac then tearing up the final tier
    Except for this expac where they've been strong since day 1.

  8. #48
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by The Jabberwock View Post
    No. Again: Learn to COMPREHEND what you read, rather than READ WHAT YOU WANT into what other people have written so that YOU can whine about a complete tangent and unrelated pet peeve of YOURS.
    keep going being rude. doesnt help your point

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Xentrosh View Post
    in what world is arcane better than fire now? and if so i'd like to see proof of that
    https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19H.html

    He's referring to this.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by pagepro View Post
    What gets me is that these nerfs are unwarranted.
    They aren't though? Fire was the second place dps spec only behind shadow priest in at least Mythic EN. MM hunter was just below it... Blizzard obviously saw these specs as being too powerful and needed to nerf them to be in line with other classes. You want them to just buff every other spec and class to be at the level of fire? Blizzard wants to make small incremental changes to specs to bring them more in line with each other. I like this idea.

    Also you're casually forgetting to mention the obvious buff Fire mages received to their AoE.

  11. #51
    So funny.
    If you think your spec is worse, reroll to another one. What it will take now with AK 10/11? 3-4 days to get all important traits you farmed for a month on main?
    Also, i play fire mage now. Have 3 golden traits unlocked and loads of unused AP stocked. Also have arcane and frost sets, which i was gathering just in case, while you were whining that the RNG sucks.

  12. #52
    Deleted
    So this thread is "i picked fire due to it being the most op rather than what i actually wanted to play and waiting for it to be buffed now another spec is .5 better than me i can't FoTM re-roll as i could previously because specs actually require more than 5 minutes of time investment so i am pissed"

    Same with the legendaries.

    Blizzard designed legendaries and artifacts around picking the spec you want to play and sticking with it not dancing to the next op class and spec that comes along.

    Bottom line unless you are raiding for world firsts class and specs tables are largely irrelevant i picked Destro lock which was underperforming from day 1 and enjoyed it regardless because that's what i enjoy playing and knew eventually Blizz would sort it out.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by The Jabberwock View Post
    He wasn't saying that it was. He was using that as an example, saying that IF Arcane became better than Fire (or if you just wanted to change for any other reason), you're screwed because of the way artifacts work.

    Learn to comprehend what you fucking read.
    Nope, he said exactly that arcane is now better than fire. Learn to comprehend what you read, okay?
    You probably didn't catch that fire was actually slightly nerfed for single target especially, and that MM hunters were actually nerfed. Nothing of what he wrote was hypothetical.

    That said I don't agree with him, both fire mages and mm hunters are clearly still strong specs.

  14. #54
    Besides, Aimed Shot nerf is roughly 5% to the spell, of which is about 50% of your overall single target damage... a few seconds thought should lead you to the conclusion that it's a going to be about a 2.5% nerf to ST for a spec that is way, way better at spread AoE through Marked Shot and Barrage.

    Now, that said, I don't really understand why it was done nor why such a tiny amount!

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerra View Post
    Legendary tied to a spec? You could easily be fire mage main and get some frost artifact as your only drop.
    You're correct. That still wouldn't change your legendary's effect being tied to a spec.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by mireigi View Post
    Equal only so far that they are competitive. Certain classes, and specs for that matter, should be slightly ahead of others for their designated role. That in turn means that any class that can fill multiple roles, whether through a different spec, or through cross-role abilities within the same spec, should be slightly behind classes that can only perform a single role, regardless of spec. Otherwise, why bother playing a pure class?
    Ended up quoting the wrong person in my above post.


    That's not how that works though. DKs offer virtually no raid utility and have two dps specs and a tanking spec. Warrior offers significantly more raid utility and has the same exact spec layout but warriors are much stronger at all roles than DK is. If what you said is true, both warriors and dks should be equally lower than a class like Mage.

    To put another spin on this: The highest dps spec in the game over the last two weeks on Mythic and Heroic EN was shadow PRIEST. The class with two healing specs and a dps with multiple utility spells like healing and stuff was the highest before 7.1. If sims are any indication (which they usually aren't) the new top dog will be Feral druid and that class if the definition of hybrid. Do it all class with healing utility, a battlerez, mobility cooldowns, etc. It has everything yet here it is potentially at the top.

    Also Warlocks. Back when they were shit tier my guild still took two. They have some of the best raid utility in the entire game with their warlock portals and they're a pure dps class but did horrible damage. See why this idea doesn't work?

    I don't want to hear it with your hybrid tax ass self.
    Last edited by Hctaz; 2016-10-27 at 10:36 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Xentrosh View Post
    keep going being rude. doesnt help your point
    Oh, yes, sorry, because you're a paragon with virtue with your mindless, idiotic ranting about YOUR misinterpretation of the original poster's point. You should look up the word "hypocrite" sometime.

  18. #58
    Threads like this make me laugh, this is the kind of people who chose his class looking who perform better instead of which one they like more, I'm sorry but if you have chosen your class looking the dps ranks you deserve the nerfs, the people who like specs like arcane can't be buffed and enjoy beign his best spec for his class some months because some FOTM players decided be fire to be top 1? . And if you are that kind of people who only enjoy being the top class of the moment, this is not your expansion.

  19. #59
    So the complain is that now you have 3 specs that are at the top of the charts rather then 1?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Xentrosh View Post
    in what world is arcane better than fire now? and if so i'd like to see proof of that
    Look at literally any log.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2
    People who don't buy the deluxe edition should be permanently banned. I'm sick of playing with poor people.

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