Page 12 of 17 FirstFirst ...
2
10
11
12
13
14
... LastLast
  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    Let's say that vanilla Naxx and wotlk Naxx never existed, this raid releases tomorrow and it only has one difficulty, it releases tomorrow, how long would it take for the first guild to kill KT.

    Obviously it'd be a little hard to properly introduce many of the mechanics today but let's assume it's as pure of a copy as possible in terms of difficulty.

    Some things are still a factor: resist gear, consumables, Patchwerk etc are scaled to require the same high amount of dps relatively to current dps.

    I imagine it wouldn't take very long but I'd like to read opinions.
    If it was released as it is and would be tuned higher than anything our current content provides then it could last couple of weeks / months for couple of reason. Getting reistance gears and 8 tanks and so on would take some time.

    I would say that Top guilds would get done with all the requirements relatively fast and would progress through it at steady phase but anything below that would never step into that raid.

    In theory bosses were much more easier than they're nowdays but they required huge amount of time before players even could try boss. Atleast it would last 10 times longer than current EN and would be 10000000x times harder

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by relaxok View Post

    My fairly good vanilla guild couldn't get past trash. My late-TBC raid guild started and cleared BT/Hyjal in a couple resets (and was progressing in Sunwell when WOTLK dropped) - we pulled in alternates and some others to our core 25 man group and tried to do Naxx 40 and got wrecked (in mostly BiS @ 70 gear)
    I pugged it in 3.0

  3. #223
    Also keep in mind that enrage timers weren't so much a thing in vanilla. Iirc that really become more of a thing starting in BC. Despite that the reworked Wrath Naxx also did not have enrage timers for many of the bosses.

    Overhealing raid encounters for free epics ftw!

  4. #224
    Deleted
    No guild would ever killed patchwerk if it was not for the setbonus expoit on t2 until he got nerfed, just saying we all did it that played hc back then and competed about world first.

    Today no it would not be hard it would be very forgiving fight compared to today where all do insane amount of min/maxing in dps mitigation and healing.

    mechanicly for its time it was hard, today i would not say so.

    the numbers was high and ppl was not so good at min/maxing thus result in problems, also resistance gear as mentioned and the fact that even in top guild there where plenty of bad ppl who died or got hit by shit they should not.

    there is a reason why many left nihilium in end of vanilla many disliked Kungen i felt that he got carried, fact is he was not bad but he was far from the best tank out there.

    a lot of the content also was cheesed with shit ton of potions and world buffs and such for progression.


    that dont happen today and have not happened since then it was stupid but imagine, just imagine you have alts with onyxia/neff head and you go to ubrs with raid to have priest apply a 1hour buff that lasts for 1 hour with MC.

    And all other shinanigans for first attempt, it was possible to do the bosses without them.

    But you did first try always with them.

    like comparing the fights to wotlk naxx to 40 naxx is like saying an apple is a car.

    Fact is today ppl are better, we have not gotten more mechanics per fight, and individual mechanics to do the fight above your role ex dps/tank/heal you also had to kite.

    and i just wish instead of focusing on freaking numbers only blizz would focusing on this addding additional mechanics makes fights fun, not more numbers.

    and some mechanics if you fail you should die, even in mythic some mechanics dont even kill you, its sad but true.

    individuall responsabilities along with collective responseability is needed, right now we have collective responsability but nothing individual per say sadly.
    Last edited by mmoc7e86bf450a; 2016-10-28 at 04:11 AM.

  5. #225
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzah View Post

    individuall responsabilities along with collective responseability is needed, right now we have collective responsability but nothing individual per say sadly.
    Rot on Nythendra?
    Winds and Toxins on Elereth?
    Fixates and Bloods on Il'gynoth?
    Charge on Ursoc?
    Brambles and sister debuff on Cenarius?
    Blades on Xavius?

    How are these not individual responsibility?

  6. #226
    Deleted
    People were using ingame raidwarnings and keyboardturning/clicking... KEYBOARDTURNING/CLICKING and achieving world firsts.
    The encounters would be faceroll for any modern day mythic guild in terms of mechanics.

  7. #227
    Legendary! The One Percent's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    ( ° ͜ʖ͡°)╭∩╮
    Posts
    6,437
    Quote Originally Posted by Steridin View Post
    I just hope Blizzard can figure out something soon, with the ideas of other franchise running out, the profit of other franchise might be able to allow some leeway for developing a brand new WoW 2.0. Sorry for the wall of text, just my 2 cents.
    Jesus fuck I am not reading that.
    You're getting exactly what you deserve.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by relaxok View Post

    My fairly good vanilla guild couldn't get past trash. My late-TBC raid guild started and cleared BT/Hyjal in a couple resets (and was progressing in Sunwell when WOTLK dropped) - we pulled in alternates and some others to our core 25 man group and tried to do Naxx 40 and got wrecked (in mostly BiS @ 70 gear)

    I remember this was well^^
    In late BC my raid, and I don't remember why, cleared Naxx once and the actually managed to wipe to kel'thuzad once. This was in full sunwell gear.^^

  9. #229
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    Let's say that vanilla Naxx and wotlk Naxx never existed, this raid releases tomorrow and it only has one difficulty, it releases tomorrow, how long would it take for the first guild to kill KT.

    Obviously it'd be a little hard to properly introduce many of the mechanics today but let's assume it's as pure of a copy as possible in terms of difficulty.

    Some things are still a factor: resist gear, consumables, Patchwerk etc are scaled to require the same high amount of dps relatively to current dps.

    I imagine it wouldn't take very long but I'd like to read opinions.
    Depends. Is it the first tier or not? Because those raids just required gear and had a high minimal requirement on DPS. Again the top guilds in mythic gear from the last tier would just storm it down so fast because the tactics are simple. Count in Vanilla there was no bloodlust. Even the non top guilds that clear mythic by the end of the tier would still get it fairly quick. Unlike today, where you have to do tactics and find windows of grace to do non interrupted damage, then it was all the time to DPS with small interupts to do tactics. Raiding has changed alot. Raids back then where gated by DPS and gear cause tehnology made it so tactics where hard to implement.

  10. #230
    So many people commenting on shit they probably didn't even attempt up in here o_O

    Obviously the game has progressed since Naxx, I'd hope so. For when it was, Naxx was definitely ahead of the game. But people who only did MC have these vague notions that all vanilla raids were afk-fests.

  11. #231
    I didn't raid Naxx back in Vanilla, let alone played the game. But I believe, setting aside the difficulty factor itself of the fights, the biggest issue that raiding had back then was the dependance on so many people. I could see them delivering a top tier difficulty raid for 20M players if they wanted to.

    - edit - I also think that balancing fights around resistance gear is terrible design.

  12. #232
    If naxx60 was released today, guilds will be clearing it within days. You cannot compare Vanilla boss mechanics with the current ones. Half of the difficulty back then was to get gear and have 40 people online. Also back then there was no such an addons like now.

  13. #233
    If Naxx40 had updated mechanics for todays game it would be a good raid probably. The biggest problem from back then was the gearing requirement and the tank sniping that happened for years back then. My guild is Vanilla never made it out of MC and AQ20 because we were tank sniped multiple times. It happened again in TBC and never made it out of Gruul and Kara because we were sniped everytime we had a tank that got enough gear for Keep and Shrine. I didnt raid till WoD and im so much happier about the raid scene now than back then.

  14. #234
    Naxx40 would not be cleared much faster if it was tuned somewhere in the same ballpark.

    Then later bosses require that the raid actually have killed quite many bosses for several weeks, before you have any chance at being a geared enough raidgroup to kill them.

    Remember gearing 40 people during progression when you'd only get 4 pieces of loot from a boss.

    The gearing was so tied and tuned within the progressing part, that wipe nights had a totally different meaning back then.
    Your raid had very limited ways of gearing outside naxx then (bar FR gear for sapph) as there was no alternative catchup or welfare loot around.

    If you failed at Patchwerk due to lack of dps, then you'd have to clear spiderwing for another week.
    Just as those who only managed to zerg some trashpulls, their problem was just not farming AQ enough.

    Gearing process alone took way longer, and with no public tactics available, finding the right one was a major challenge in some fights.

    Everyone who actually progressed through naxx40 in retail vanilla, knows that with every consideration, that there will never be a raidinstance more difficult or containing more complex tactics.

    - I'm still in awe over our raidleaders who managed to actually micromanage us through 4h in just a couple weeks.
    Even if tactics and addons was public available like today, it would still be a logistical nightmare that 99% of todays raidleaders have next to no experience with.
    Last edited by epLe; 2016-11-01 at 04:08 PM.

  15. #235
    Deleted
    when people talk old times, they forget one thing.. computers and internet, these where more expensive and more different (between characters) back then. some people played with potato and others with best rigs they could buy. also every household didn't have internet back then, nowadays it is almost like civil right to be in internet.

  16. #236
    With how much better raid teams are nowadays and how much experience everyone has with WotLK Naxx, it would take like 4 hours. Only because there's a lot of bosses.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Mechanics aren't what keep things unkilled a long time. Tuning is. Mechanically complex encounters that were mostly execution like mythic Gorefiend, Xhul'horac, Thogar and Imperator Mar'gok died real fast.

    Method and Paragon didn't take 9+ days to kill mythic Archimonde because they couldn't not cross lines, figure out which stack to go to with mark and taunt infernals away from each other. They took 9+ days because the numbers were grossly overtuned for their gear level and the margin for error was near zero.

    Hell the level 60 Heigan dance is a lot harder mechanically than Seething Corruption. Figuring out how to do your group and tank rotations on Four Horsemen and then executing it takes some real thought.

    Players have so much more to work with now too. They don't have to worry about threat, or aoe threat. They have things like misdirect, tricks, bloodlust, a million personal defensives, raid cooldowns, tank cooldowns outside of a 30 minute shield wall, stampeding roar, aoe healing, personal sprints, cheat deaths, death grip, mass death grip, ring of frost, mass entanglement, passive cleaves, every class has aoe, 30 yard range taunts.

    In a way that adds complexity and lets encounters be more complex, but without all those things a lot of Naxxramas mechanics start to feel a lot more scary. To pick up a Guardian of Icecrown at 60 a tank had to physically walk over to it and use his melee range taunt on it (that had a 15 second cooldown). Now he asks a hunter to misdirect it to him, or throws his shield at it from 30 yards away or taunts it from 30 yards away or charges it. To heal a melee frost blast at 60 without losing them you either had 3-4 priests Prayer of Healing a melee group and hope you got them or individually heal all of them within 4 seconds, now one healer could just hit an aoe smart heal on the group and none of them would die anyway because a disc priest would've preshielded them.

    To build threat on multiple adds at 60 you had to individually target and hit them all and they'd easily get ripped off you, which made fights like Gothik a horrible mess where you couldn't just aoe everything and had to CC things to keep up.
    Too bad people will skip over this post,, which is pretty much spot-on, and repeat instead the brainless idiotic mantra "players then were bad, players today are magically much better, so it would be easily cleared today !".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    This is a nonsensical question.

    Drop Naxxramas into today's game and everyone and their grandma clears it within an afternoon.

    Drop today's players (IRL) into the Vanilla state of the game (aka everything is expensive as fuck, no you don't have 3 million gold stored in a bank already, no you don't have a roster refined over multiple years of experience, no you don't have 50 alt runs, no you don't have bloated player toolkits, etc), and Naxx would last more or less as long as it did.
    Pretty much.

  18. #238
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Haomarush
    Posts
    7,841
    kt would be dead the same day
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    I wonder how true all this "players were just bad at this game" argument is.
    It isn't. It's a retarded argument made by retarded people who just want to inflate their ego.
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    I wouldnt say Naxx 2.0 was incredibly toned down. It might have been slightly easier on a purely numbers standpoint, but not by much. The major difference that made it so much easier was the tuning changes that had to be done to transition from a 40 man raid, to a 25 / 10 man raid. Cut 1/3 or 3/4 of the people out of the raid, and mechanics originally designed with 40 people in mind and a fixed amount of "boss room" space to work with suddenly become ridiculously trivial in some cases. Thaddeus for example was utterly stupid in 10 man, because after you got a decent amount of gear, you could actually position your ENTIRE raid in such a way that nobody ever had to move, because nobody was ever close enough to someone else to overlap polarities.
    You have no fucking idea about what you're talking about...
    Last edited by Akka; 2016-11-02 at 12:36 AM.

  20. #240
    I am Murloc!
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    5,457
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    kt would be dead the same day
    That's assuming you'd conjure frost resistance gear out of thin air. Unlike Naxx 2.0, it wasn't optional.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •