Stone Cold Steve Austin's honest opinion on Chris Benoit

[Macaquerie]

snip

Well that's kind of the reason they went so far out of the way to maintain kayfabe for all those years, eh? Sure, wrestling can be entertaining if you just see it as scripted theater, but it does lose a lot of the appeal that roped people into it when they were growing up. But for me, what really kills wrestling is just how pathetic most of these guys that I grew up watching actually were, and it seems like those ring personas were a lot closer to the reality than I ever thought. They all seem way too invested in their own characters, hold on to petty locker room grudges for WAY too long, and do nothing but make excuses for the current, and invariably sorry, state of their lives.

[Wolfie of Medivh]

Well that's kind of the reason they went so far out of the way to maintain kayfabe for all those years, eh? Sure, wrestling can be entertaining if you just see it as scripted theater, but it does lose a lot of the appeal that roped people into it when they were growing up. But for me, what really kills wrestling is just how pathetic most of these guys that I grew up watching actually were, and it seems like those ring personas were a lot closer to the reality than I ever thought. They all seem way too invested in their own characters, hold on to petty locker room grudges for WAY too long, and do nothing but make excuses for the current, and invariably sorry, state of their lives.

Don't get me wrong - I like now better than then in terms of performances. Just compare two similar people - say Rip Hawk and Ric Flair (Rip taught Ric, well, how to be Ric Flair [by copying Buddy Rogers!]), and it's no question, Flair is 100 times the athlete Rip was, and honestly, his daughter whoops both of them.

But yeah, that's why the heels and faces stayed apart, to give the people a reason to believe. Now I'd never call for going back to thinking Undertaker was a zombie or that Hulk Hogan was an All-American, but I do think treating it a bit more reverently - and understanding that people need a reason to fight and a reason to watch - would help a lot more than the stupid gimmicks. I will say, despite my personal distaste for the son-in-law, Hunter does have a much more respectful head on his shoulders than 2016 VKM. I worry more about Stephanie - I don't think she holds the business in any special regard, it's just a business venture. How she's booked shows it. I don't know who will hold the real power the way Vince does today, and if its her I don't see good things.

A lot of the old-timers, sadly, didn't really see wrestling for a life-time thing it is - it's a career, and it should be planned. Most got into it because it was a way to make money, and they didn't see it like what it is: something you need to undertake with a very clear head. Thankfully, the more modern guys (I'd say since 86) do make it more clearheaded and as a result, most are better prepared. Sadly, not all, as we saw with Chris.

[Macaquerie]

Don't get me wrong - I like now better than then in terms of performances. Just compare two similar people - say Rip Hawk and Ric Flair (Rip taught Ric, well, how to be Ric Flair [by copying Buddy Rogers!]), and it's no question, Flair is 100 times the athlete Rip was, and honestly, his daughter whoops both of them.

But yeah, that's why the heels and faces stayed apart, to give the people a reason to believe. Now I'd never call for going back to thinking Undertaker was a zombie or that Hulk Hogan was an All-American, but I do think treating it a bit more reverently - and understanding that people need a reason to fight and a reason to watch - would help a lot more than the stupid gimmicks. I will say, despite my personal distaste for the son-in-law, Hunter does have a much more respectful head on his shoulders than 2016 VKM. I worry more about Stephanie - I don't think she holds the business in any special regard, it's just a business venture. How she's booked shows it. I don't know who will hold the real power the way Vince does today, and if its her I don't see good things.

A lot of the old-timers, sadly, didn't really see wrestling for a life-time thing it is - it's a career, and it should be planned. Most got into it because it was a way to make money, and they didn't see it like what it is: something you need to undertake with a very clear head. Thankfully, the more modern guys (I'd say since 86) do make it more clearheaded and as a result, most are better prepared. Sadly, not all, as we saw with Chris.

Bringing back kayfabe in any significant capacity is pretty much impossible given modern technology, but wrestling is also a far less compelling product without it, so all I can conclude is that the industry is just heading for a long, slow death, which given the number of lives it has destroyed, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[RickJamesLich]

Bringing back kayfabe in any significant capacity is pretty much impossible given modern technology, but wrestling is also a far less compelling product without it, so all I can conclude is that the industry is just heading for a long, slow death, which given the number of lives it has destroyed, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Yeah I've been a fan of wrestling for almost 20 years now, but it seems like the product is on it's death bed at this point. The WWE still has a lot of money but it truly seems that it's fading from pop culture. It's hard as a fan to watch the show most of the time.

[Wolfie of Medivh]

Bringing back kayfabe in any significant capacity is pretty much impossible given modern technology, but wrestling is also a far less compelling product without it, so all I can conclude is that the industry is just heading for a long, slow death, which given the number of lives it has destroyed, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Well no, the industry won't die - it will evolve. It all ready has. You might know where most of the wrestlers are now, it's called MMA. It's basically what pro-wrestling used to be, except you don't get told to put on gold lame and told to shake your ass by a promoter.

And Kayfabe in-so-far as "here's the good guys and bad guys - cheer or boo because we tell you too" is dead, but respecting the crowd? giving a care about how a show looks? Beholding to its basic principals not because it fools people but it shows a level of dedication and effort? It works. RoH used it successfully until they decided they didn't need to be respectable anymore because they got a little Sinclair money.

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Yeah I've been a fan of wrestling for almost 20 years now, but it seems like the product is on it's death bed at this point. The WWE still has a lot of money but it truly seems that it's fading from pop culture. It's hard as a fan to watch the show most of the time.

the base problem with the WWE - and this is its cutting flaw since just after WM I - is that Vince never wanted to do wrestling. he had his father's promotion, and his idea, his dream was to start with that and move onto TV, movies. How else do you explain the WBF, the XFL, WWE Films, ect? It's because Vince, and several people around him ::cough cough::kevindunn::cough cough:: think they're big shot TV producers, and aren't happy with wrestling. No one is a wrestler, no one is wrestling, despite being in trunks in a wrestling ring, on a wrestling mat using holds. THey're superstars engaging in sports entertainment! No, no they're not.

Wrestling adapts. It has multiple times - it used to be carnival side shows, it adapted to big arenas, to radio, to TV, to cable, to nation-wide distribution, to world-wide success. It can work, but ya gotta RESPECT the business and treat fans as the intelligent folks who want to see an amazing show with larger-than-life characters doing spectacular things for meaningful reasons for goals that you can understand. Not guys making snarky backstage comments, not actors or lingerie models dancing around poorly, but something that can be attached to.

[Felya]

Bringing back kayfabe in any significant capacity is pretty much impossible given modern technology, but wrestling is also a far less compelling product without it, so all I can conclude is that the industry is just heading for a long, slow death, which given the number of lives it has destroyed, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

It is impossible... to pat my self on the back, I said wrestling is moving to a scoring system on this forum, a whole month before TNA did it. Keyfeb is dead, long live athletics...

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Yeah I've been a fan of wrestling for almost 20 years now, but it seems like the product is on it's death bed at this point. The WWE still has a lot of money but it truly seems that it's fading from pop culture. It's hard as a fan to watch the show most of the time.

I disagree... current work is much better than pretty much ever. We are lacking story lines, which isn't a fundamental problem with the product, but with the writing teams.

[the game]

It is impossible... to pat my self on the back, I said wrestling is moving to a scoring system on this forum, a whole month before TNA did it. Keyfeb is dead, long live athletics...

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I disagree... current work is much better than pretty much ever. We are lacking story lines, which isn't a fundamental problem with the product, but with the writing teams.

And a lack of competition for WWE. I'm sorry but TNA is crap. Ever since WCW was bought out they have had no competition.

[Macaquerie]

It is impossible... to pat my self on the back, I said wrestling is moving to a scoring system on this forum, a whole month before TNA did it. Keyfeb is dead, long live athletics...

They're using multiple rounds and the boxing scoring system for a worked bout? Whatever for?

[Felya]

They're using multiple rounds and the boxing scoring system for a worked bout? Whatever for?

I think the TNA way was dumb. But, without keyfed, we know what selling and pushing is. We can have a world champion like Cena and a top scoring champion who puts over others. We can deduct points for botches or mis ques... which can also be used in story lines, much how they pushed all red everything, because she was so bad in the ring. It adds a tier to the match, without treating your fans like idiots.

[Mafic]

Benoit isn't a Hall of Famer as I can think of many that are still waiting to get in.

[Selastan]

This is such a weird issue...for once in my life I'm confused as to how I want to answer. Benoit was a great wrestler, and according to Austin a great man. What happened to him and his family was a result of extensive brain damage and didn't represent him as a person. But still...such a thing can't be ignored or excused. And I loved Benoit. He was my hero when I first got interested in the WWE. He did for me wrestling what Earnhardt Sr. did for racing (This is why I'm not into ANY sport now, my heroes are cursed). So I'm biased. But still, I can't argue with any decision the WWE makes, really anything is understandable.

[Felya]

And a lack of competition for WWE. I'm sorry but TNA is crap. Ever since WCW was bought out they have had no competition.

Yeah, I do like what NXT doing with the defections. Eric Young looks bad ass, even if Sanity entrance music is dumb. They took My Name Is Mudd, removed the Les Clypool part and replaced it with drums. Clever, but misses the point....

Sanity:
https://youtu.be/4RzGvvH2bsU

My name is mud
https://youtu.be/953PkxFNiko

[Sylvaeres]

he was also one of the best performers, who also had severe mental issues and brain disorders from said performance, thats the dangers of stacking concussions on each other. How ever due the general public not able under stand any of the nuances of the situation other then murder suicide it simply won't happen

See thats the thing. It doesn't matter how good of a wrestler he was. He murdered kids. That overshadows everything else.

[Stormspellz]

See thats the thing. It doesn't matter how good of a wrestler he was. He murdered kids. That overshadows everything else.

he literally was out of his mind because of the concussions, would you discredit someone who was going through Alzheimer or dementia their previous achievements?

[Jotaux]

The tragedy of what happened to the Benoit family will always overshadow his accomplishments in the ring. To be perfectly honest its a situation where I have no answer because mental illness is a touchy subject. What he did was horrific but at the same time was he really responsible for those actions? They say he had the brain of a 90 year old alzheimer patient. You could argue the painkillers and who knows what else he had been taking for years is his own fault I suppose.

[PACOX]

Had he not killed himself he certainly wouldn't have been considered. They want to honor him? Don't sugarcoat his story, tell the good with the bad so that others can see the tragedy of his life.

[Macaquerie]

he literally was out of his mind because of the concussions, would you discredit someone who was going through Alzheimer or dementia their previous achievements?

The thing is, given his line of work, the brain damage he suffered was not some kind of unfortunate accident but something he very much brought upon himself. Anyone who ever watched the end of a Benoit match could easily tell that he was due for some terrible problems down the line. It's an uncomfortable, but inescapable, fact that the toughness and tenacity that fans loved about Benoit was directly linked to the murders.

[Deleted]

Whatever you say about Hogan, he should be in there. WWF/WWE would not be the thing it is/was without Hogan.

[Stormspellz]

The thing is, given his line of work, the brain damage he suffered was not some kind of unfortunate accident but something he very much brought upon himself. Anyone who ever watched the end of a Benoit match could easily tell that he was due for some terrible problems down the line. It's an uncomfortable, but inescapable, fact that the toughness and tenacity that fans loved about Benoit was directly linked to the murders.

his career peaked long before we got a better understanding of the long term effects of brain damage from concussions.

[caervek]

There's a simple approach to this, can you watch a Benoit match and fully enjoy it without his murders overshadowing things? If you can then grats (or not as you're a bit odd) but the vast majority cannot and this is why the HOF is off limits to him, because his crimes vastly overshadowed what he achieved in the ring. It's the same reason they removed Jimmy Snuka from the HOF.