1. #8021
    Quote Originally Posted by tonzon94 View Post
    Just got my first legendary the other day finally, the cc ring. I'm pretty stoked honestly; I think I'm gonna pick up a fresh bottle of bleach on my way home from work today, but yeah this ring is garbage compared to any ring with a decent amount of mastery on it isn't it?
    Remember, if you want to get the maximum amount of dps you can, but... You have to bleach it, to reach it #BleachedWarrior

  2. #8022
    Quote Originally Posted by rullarn View Post
    Remember, if you want to get the maximum amount of dps you can, but... You have to bleach it, to reach it #BleachedWarrior
    So kill myself with bleach? Sure thing

  3. #8023
    Ok, so I was reading the a few pages back where someone spelled out the new Arms rotation (since I'm still playing off the FR centered build instead of the Slam one) and I have a few questions regarding the new rotation.

    1. To confirm, basically the only time we're using FR is to sandwich a CS and during BC, meaning basically we're only ever going to use a 2 stack of it on our MS? (Except when coming out of BR)

    2. Is CS supposed to be used on CD regardless of whether or not it's applied to the target (for consistent use of the Tactician proc) or are we supposed to wait until the debuff is off the target? If so, do we fill that space with something?

    3. I was a little confused by the back end of the conversation. First it was stated that (naturally) you'd want to use Execute immediately after a CS to benefit from the damage buff, but in a later post I read that the execute priority is CS, MS, Execute. Does that mean that MS takes priority during that proc, or is there a set of circumstances that Execute would be used vs MS? (Like if after a BC and you have 3 stacks of FR?)

  4. #8024
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelon View Post
    Yes but you dont need much haste to pull this off, 15% should be good enough.

    But if you got around 25% haste (not likely without bloodlust or big trinket procs) you can fit 1 more gcd's inside the warbreaker window than you would with like 10-15% (which is more likely to happen with the current gearing.)

    Cleave -> WB -> WW+CD's (2 gcd's used and only room for bladestorm with low haste)
    Cleave -> WB -> WW+CD's -> Bladestorm -> Cleave (with 25%-27% haste)

    I havent done the full math on the last gcd thing as most people wont reach it, but might be worth it to just throw a ms out instead of cleave as you could have stacked a 3x focused rage on the cleave, wb and ww gcd's before going into bladestorm.
    3x FR/Execute on the last GCD is optimal, cleave does super low damage and with SD buff up you can get a massive MS or Execute crit just before CS debuff drops. I'm doing this with no issues at 23% haste, same with getting 2x MS (no tactition) within Battle Cry and 5 GCDs, it's consistently doable at 23%.

    Worth mentioning also that some people who macro FR with Slam during BC have noted they can't make the 5 GCD's / 2x MS within BC, while they can with staggered/separated uses of the abilities, I'm not sure why. I personally use them separately and so have never noticed an issue, at 23% it always works.

    Quote Originally Posted by risuave View Post
    Ok, so I was reading the a few pages back where someone spelled out the new Arms rotation (since I'm still playing off the FR centered build instead of the Slam one) and I have a few questions regarding the new rotation.

    1. To confirm, basically the only time we're using FR is to sandwich a CS and during BC, meaning basically we're only ever going to use a 2 stack of it on our MS? (Except when coming out of BR)

    2. Is CS supposed to be used on CD regardless of whether or not it's applied to the target (for consistent use of the Tactician proc) or are we supposed to wait until the debuff is off the target? If so, do we fill that space with something?

    3. I was a little confused by the back end of the conversation. First it was stated that (naturally) you'd want to use Execute immediately after a CS to benefit from the damage buff, but in a later post I read that the execute priority is CS, MS, Execute. Does that mean that MS takes priority during that proc, or is there a set of circumstances that Execute would be used vs MS? (Like if after a BC and you have 3 stacks of FR?)
    1. FR used as a rage burner only to avoid capping while there is no Shattered Defense buff up, though you can and should prepare a 3 stack in anticipation for Battle Cry so long as you know you will have CS (SD) for that first GCD of battle cry. Otherwise you're using MS (0 stacks) on cooldown and slam inbetween. Lots of slam spamming in other words, using FR for CS procs (just to consume SD) and spam during BC. Some people only use 1x FR outside of BC in order to avoid possibly wasting tactition procs, personally I always use 2-3 stacks on SD unless I'm rage starved, wasting tactition procs from that is so rare it's irrelevant (opinion/personal experience).

    2. Once you have used Shattered Defense you should refresh CS as soon as it procs, unless you're less than 5 seconds (ish) away from using Battle Cry, then you wanna save it to make sure your BC burst is as strong as can be, BC without CS up hurts.

    3. Not sure if you're talking about the ring? In a typical execute phase you can discard MS aside from the final GCD of Battle Cry when you have 3 stacks of FR from the free spamming (deadly calm). During Execute phase you do not reset CS while Battle Cry is up, You will CS > BC + Exe > Exe > Exe > Exe > MS (FRx3).. If you're lower on haste then you get only 4 GCD's within BC, so MS on the 4th. Outside of BC you just use Execute, to fish for CS procs. If you're low on rage after using CS then wait for the swing timer to finish, you want to consume SD with a full rage (22 with dauntless IIRC) Execute.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2016-10-27 at 06:27 PM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  5. #8025
    Quote Originally Posted by lurj View Post
    Trinket question: I've currently got these trinkets

    845 Memento of Angerboda
    845 WQ stat stick
    835 Spontaneous Appendages

    Right now I'm using the Appendages and the memento. Is this the right thing to do?
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...uMRAaI/pubhtml

    from the Arms Compendium

  6. #8026
    ^^^


    Is this accurate? That means my angerboda that I've been farming is worse than my WQ stat stick. God damn it

  7. #8027
    Has anyone stated the actual DPS difference between the "slam" rotation and the 'original' 3 stack FR rotation? Just curious, not that either is 'difficult'.

  8. #8028
    stat stick is trong, but memento is awsome too if it procs in the right moment. They are pretty close, in fights were u have downtime, i would prefer the memento.

  9. #8029
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Joakim1331 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lurj View Post
    Is this accurate? That means my angerboda that I've been farming is worse than my WQ stat stick. God damn it
    It's really odd. The guide itself says Angerboda and Spontaneous are the best ones, yet the ranking doesn't look the same way.

  10. #8030
    Deleted
    Is anyone else concerned about the tier set stats in nighthold, it has very little mastery on the gear?

  11. #8031
    Quote Originally Posted by gordonwu87 View Post
    Is anyone else concerned about the tier set stats in nighthold, it has very little mastery on the gear?
    I was thinking this, I think only the back actually has any mastery on it? In this case, is the 4pc set bonus worth dropping all that mastery for? I'm guessing the answer is probably no but would like to see if someone has looked further into.

  12. #8032
    I know that when I checked Mr Robot a few weeks ago, it showed my theoretical BiS in T19 as not having the full set bonus. I don't know how accurate Mr Robot is, but it is probably telling that it didn't just automatically factor in the full set.

  13. #8033
    Deleted
    Does latest simC know how to optimally use Collapsing Futures?

  14. #8034
    Quote Originally Posted by Bebbl89 View Post
    It's really odd. The guide itself says Angerboda and Spontaneous are the best ones, yet the ranking doesn't look the same way.
    I'm skeptical about Spontaneous being the best, I've raided with it for 2 weeks now and a fair bit of dummy testing, the proc rate is pretty RNG (unreliable) and doesn't do a whole lot of damage most kills, I've even had comparable or better results from extended dummy testing from running an 855 + socket STR/Mastery (WQ) trinket and also an 870 Paw.

    It's like these two trinkets (Angerboda/Appendigesss) are so RNG and Arms is so RNG that half the time you just shrug your shoulders and say "fuck it, I dunno". In the past it was usually fairly clearcut how good each trinket was from gameplay, but with so much RNG being thrown around it's hard to tell. We can get an idea from Simcraft, but it hasn't been very good this time around regarding trinkets either, and it's a bit in the dark as to how far along they are with improving that.

    Anyway, I'm not convinced that Appendages is anything other than averagely good for its ilvl, nothing spectacular.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conan1 View Post
    Has anyone stated the actual DPS difference between the "slam" rotation and the 'original' 3 stack FR rotation? Just curious, not that either is 'difficult'.
    It was tiny, pretty sure the numbers being thrown about were 1% ish. If you check logs then most players have always been playing halfway between both playstyles if you look at them in a strict sense, and most players are still playing in that halfway window.. You can't tell from logs which is superior because Arms is primarily about how well RNG treats you, with a variance of as much as 25% or more you can't really pick out minor playstyle differences that equate to only 1% optimisation on a 10000 iteration average.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2016-10-28 at 11:08 AM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  15. #8035
    The biggest issue i see with arms balancing ATM is that two secondaries (mastery and Crit) have periods of outright uselessness, Mastery has zero value if CSmash isn't up (and the ever-fickle Tactician procs are absent) and Crit is useless when "battle cry" is up (And the optimal talent choices maximize BC-uptime), i think it's just horrifically bad design to have two stats suffer from that, but it can't be fixed without another class overhaul, so i guess we're stuck this way for a long time to come...

  16. #8036
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    The biggest issue i see with arms balancing ATM is that two secondaries (mastery and Crit) have periods of outright uselessness, Mastery has zero value if CSmash isn't up (and the ever-fickle Tactician procs are absent) and Crit is useless when "battle cry" is up (And the optimal talent choices maximize BC-uptime), i think it's just horrifically bad design to have two stats suffer from that, but it can't be fixed without another class overhaul, so i guess we're stuck this way for a long time to come...
    If you have the gloves or ring, the Trinket with Str/Mastery would have a better value because your CS procs would be much higher. I go through a full phase of no CS procs very rarely now with the legendary ring. The procs from the ring are so damn RNG that it can be very good, good, or bad. Like, I don't know how to phrase it perfectly ... I try to Heroic Throw before I charge because it has a chance to proc Execute, Charge also has a chance just like Auto Attacks. When I step away from an enemy I keep my Heroic Throw on CD to try and get Execute procs. I mean right now it's all about the Execute procs from the ring. In normal situations, I get between 3 to 7 Executes between Battle Cries, and keep in mind that BC comes up for me much faster because of the full 40 rage being utilized, without consuming any rage.

  17. #8037
    I got the welfare legendary ring with the +haste from loss of control effects. The biggest elation swiftly followed up with a massive slap across the face with a wet fish. So frustrating!

  18. #8038
    Ring is rppm, there is no point in what you are doing.

  19. #8039
    Deleted
    is the trinket from the last boss in karazhan any good?

  20. #8040
    Quote Originally Posted by kindomroll View Post
    is the trinket from the last boss in karazhan any good?
    Yes, but not for Arms. There are many more powerful trinkets for us to use.

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