EU forum thread that surprised me a lot

[Deleted]

Which is yet another fault of the LFG and LFR systems. They inherently promote bad behaviour by having no tangible consequence for being any of those above. Vanilla and TBC had it to some extent. If you acted like a douche on the server you played on, you'd quickly get a bad rep, and only new(er) players would invite you to a group, while the more established playerbase, which grew over time, would shun you like the plague. Making friends isn't easy, no, but there's usually one or two players in each LFG dungeon that aren't complete asshats. Those are the ones you have to look out for.

Yes ... No ... maybe? I can't decide whenever I want to agree with that or not. I'm really thankful to not stand around in SW for half a day to find a group to do Scarlet Monastery it was such a pain to get to that dungeon. On the other hand I do agree that a lot of the sense of "server community" was lost over time. You're probably right that there are a lot of fine players even in LFD groups but from my own experience there is rarely any talk. There are enough groups where even my initial "Hi" and later on "Have a good day everyone!" doesn't get a single response.

please. those quests didnt give any meaningful rewards, certainly nothing on par with MC gear, let alone later raids, nothing made them "endgame" other than being 60lev quests...

That's true but you had stories and zones to explore. You were "busy" and, at least to me, it did seem like I was going somewhere because some of those quest rewards etc. did provide upgrades. In WotLK I did enjoy doing the tournament dailies as I was working towards something. Right now it's more or less Raid or Twink maybe with the exception of the Suramar quests.

[The One Percent]

Why the fuck are you trying to play an MMO if you want to do it single player only? There are so many single player RPGs that do it so much better than WoW or any other MMO.

[Nikkej]

I got something to say here.

I did try out US realms, even raiding. I had to play during midday or nights, so US fit me perfect.

I couldnt stop talk about how much friendly and social the game was at US, was a whole different experience.

I am from Sweden btw, if that matters.

[Sprinky]

It sounds like multi-boxing would be more suited to the poster. There is only so much content you can do solo, and if you reach that cap then multi-boxing is the only sure way to continue progressing.

[caervek]

please. those quests didnt give any meaningful rewards, certainly nothing on par with MC gear, let alone later raids

Perhaps not but it was equal if not better than loot from ZG/AQ20, hell the breastplate from tirion was almost on par with T1.

[plato13]

Why the fuck are you trying to play an MMO if you want to do it single player only? There are so many single player RPGs that do it so much better than WoW or any other MMO.

the reason people used to play mmorpgs was because they wanted an rpg that never ends and you can keep progressing and also have some kind of economy and so on. the raid/dungeon-themeparkfest is what blizzard made them into.

[caervek]

Mythics should be in the dungeon finder, heroics are way to easy, and most people (that have lives) cant spend 4hrs trying to make a group that could flop on a wipe.

Indeed, renaming heroics to mythics in Legion and giving them a 7d lockout was a bit silly but making them non queueable was downright stupid. It's understandable for Mythic+ which replaces old mythic and CM, but baseline mythic should be queueable just like heroics were.

[Jewsco]

Wouldn't that imply that the game was far better back then because "forced" grouping and content was the norm? And this toxicity has appeared more after these last expansions because it started to cater more and more to these solo people?

Winner,winner chicken dinner!!! The game catering to more solo play and making any sort of grouping up more and more aynounmous with Lfd and Lfr is exactly what has lead to the more toxic game.
That one has been able to do so much solo and when grouped up could be a jerk with no repercussions has lead to the rising toxicity.
Was a time players needed other players for simple things like group quests and if they were a jerk in a group they got a bad rep on their realm and either couldn't or had a hard time finding nor getting into any future groups. Sadly with Lfd,Lfr,and cross realm that is no longer the case and the toxicity level in the game has grown due to that.

[Deleted]

Just ignore the good old argument of casual vs. hardcore, solo vs. groups, epics are cheap crap in this thread and read the post below.

If some of these elitists (870+ gear for mythic Violet Hold, have brains & sick dps or insta-kick), wipe once quitters or "Don't waste my time" jerks; like they are building a space shuttle in their spare time, read and try to behave like this in the game, the WoW community won't be toxic and unpleasant to be in the first place.

And don't blame everything on Blizzard's past business decisions, they might have awaken the devil inside these people but it was there in the first place.

I don't think they're scared of IRL interaction. They're scared of being inadequate. They're scared they will not perform, and as a result will be kicked and flamed for being bad.
This is not a good feeling, I'm sure everyone has tried it at some point in the game. These people need to find a casual guild, a safe space, where making mistakes will not get you kicked from the raid team. Unfortunately however, there are very few of these guilds. Even the guilds that aren't hardcore, still expect you to do well in raids.

Is this a problem? Yes and no. It's not a problem at all for those who's decent at the game.

Imagine this, you play WoW, and spend a lot of time on it. One of your family members (Sister, brother, whatever) decide they wanna try their hand at the game, because it looks interesting.You like your sister/brother, and don't want them to be hurt. They level up, and clearly, through leveling, they don't obtain the skills required to be a decent player. He/she tries out a dungeon, and it results in being flamed and eventually being kicked from the group. A massively bad experience, especially for a first one. He/she is now sad and scared of trying out more dungeons and raids. Is it their fault? No, they were trying to play the game as intended, they were having fun up until now. Is it the dungeon group's fault? To some extent. They really shouldn't flame other players if they're bad, especially in a dungeon environment. Who the fuck cares? It's just a dungeon!
This may lead to them thinking "Oh well, I like the game, but I really didn't like this experience, so perhaps I should just stick to solo play"

So always remember, if someone is doing bad in your dungeon group, talk to them, ask if they're new, offer some advice. Don't flame them, be polite. I had 3 new players in my dungeon group yesterday. The 2 of them did under half my DPS. We had fun, they were really confused, and died a lot. Luckily me and the tank were pretty well geared, so we just powered through the bosses 2 man. But I think it meant a lot to them that they werent flamed, just because they're new. They actually had fun.

And this is important. In the end, for 100% of the player base "FUN" is the most important element in the game. But fun comes in many different forms for the individual. Some only have fun if they're doing really well AKA "Power gamers", the same goes for people who like the lore, and people who like the world.

Those in my dungeon weren't power gamers, they were there purely to experience the game. They wanna do well, but really didn't have the skills and knowledge to do so.

I guess, what my point is. Don't flame people, unless they truly are gigantic asses. If they're just doing bad, and it's not in an important situation, then who cares? And then we may see less people who play WoW as a singleplayer game, and will actually take part in the community. Because really, these people, from my experience, are really amazingly fun players to interact and play with.

TLDR: Don't flame people, even if they're bad. Then people might not play singleplayer.

[caervek]

Wouldn't that imply that the game was far better back then because "forced" grouping and content was the norm? And this toxicity has appeared more after these last expansions because it started to cater more and more to these solo people?

No because forced grouping wasn't the norm then, before LFR was added at the end of Cata less than 20% of players ever raided, LFR bumped that to over 50%. Forced grouping is bigger now than it's ever been hence the complaints from players like the one the OP references.

[Choda]

Just ignore the good old argument of casual vs. hardcore, solo vs. groups, epics are cheap crap in this thread and read the post below.

If some of these elitists (870+ gear for mythic Violet Hold, have brains & sick dps or insta-kick), wipe once quitters or "Don't waste my time" jerks; like they are building a space shuttle in their spare time, read and try to behave like this in the game, the WoW community won't be toxic and unpleasant to be in the first place.

And don't blame everything on Blizzard's past business decisions, they might have awaken the devil inside these people but it was there in the first place.

This is one of the most delusional posts I've ever seen. But sure, let's try.

Re: "Don't waste my time" jerks - It's their right to not want to carry you, especially if you've caused a wipe which for a single person nowadays is quite a feat. Don't demonize other people just because you suck and they don't want to put up with it.

Re: "Devil inside these people" - lolololololol

The post you quoted is also pretty rubbish. My wife is a player like that. She loves gathering mounts, she isn't that good of a player and she gets really depressed if she's kicked out of a group because she does bad dps, blames it on herself and doesn't want to play anymore. Know what I did? I sat down with her, told her that people are like that, that she'd do it as well if she was in their shoes and then I WENT AHEAD AND MADE A GROUP WITH HER AND SOME MUTUAL FRIENDS WHO KNOW US..

If you seriously don't have enough friends to be able to do the above, then once again - maybe you're the """toxic""" one. Don't put the burden of your casual family / friends on strangers, we have our hands full as is.

[Aeula]

I can understand their point of view. I'm not scared of social interaction, but I do prefer to avoid it.

Yes WoW is an 'MMO' but multiplayer can mean anything, it doesn't have to be the core of the game. I used to play WoW for the 'massively'. Meaning that the game was huge and would last me longer than other games. But since WoD it's not that massive anymore as there's fuck all to do and most of Legion seems to be the devs pressuring people to grind mythics.

So yeah. It'd be nice to see more solo and easy queue content like there was in MoP.

[Deleted]

This is one of the most delusional posts I've ever seen. But sure, let's try.

Re: "Don't waste my time" jerks - It's their right to not want to carry you, especially if you've caused a wipe which for a single person nowadays is quite a feat. Don't demonize other people just because you suck and they don't want to put up with it.

Re: "Devil inside these people" - lolololololol

The post you quoted is also pretty rubbish. My wife is a player like that. She loves gathering mounts, she isn't that good of a player and she gets really depressed if she's kicked out of a group because she does bad dps, blames it on herself and doesn't want to play anymore. Know what I did? I sat down with her, told her that people are like that, that she'd do it as well if she was in their shoes and then I WENT AHEAD AND MADE A GROUP WITH HER AND SOME MUTUAL FRIENDS WHO KNOW US..

If you seriously don't have enough friends to be able to do the above, then once again - maybe you're the """toxic""" one. Don't put the burden of your casual family / friends on strangers, we have our hands full as is.

Ignoring that there are a LOT of toxic players is insane. Just look that people searching for dps with legendary, as if legendaries gave you the hands to play, or that you made a great effort on getting one. I've been playing legion since launch, 8 finished campaings and 4 to go, done LOT of raids, mythics, mythic+, wq to stop a train, arenas, bgs, world bosses, already have 8 hidden appearances, and no one legendary. Same with achievs. Tired to see people with the rift and someone with curve wiping inside the eye, an LFR thing. People doesn't complain on elitist people because they are elitists, people complain because they are irrationaly elitists. RNG and rushes don't make you a good player, but allows you to take the place of a good player who hasn't got the luck. Just IMO, not a cry, I doesn't even care about legendaries, some day it will drop, but until then I'm having fun. Most worried about the frost DK hidden appearances xd.

[Luckx]

MMORPG doesnt stands for PVP or Co-OP multiplayer like Raids. Quests are solo content but when you doing them you interact with other players, because you attack same mobs with them and chit chat.

Group content is subjective thing, some ppl consider posting stuff on Auction House Group content some consider it solo content.

«"It's exceptionally rare that everyone wants the same thing (despite frequent framing of "no one likes X" or "we want X" when giving feedback). And even then, there is a large silent majority that does not post on forums. If there were actual unanimity regarding a certain issue, we would change our design: For example, early on in Warlords, we changed Group Finder loot from Personal back to Need/Greed until we could iterate on Personal loot further, and the community overwhelmingly told us that was a dumb idea. The change was reverted within 2 days.

Second, almost every facet of WoW is an activity that caters to a minority of the playerbase. That may sound odd at first blush, but it's true. In a sense, that's part of the magic of WoW. It is not a narrow game, but rather one that can be enjoyed in numerous different ways, by people with hugely diverse playstyles. A minority of players raid. A minority of players participate in PvP. A tiny minority touch Mythic raiding. A tiny minority of players do rated PvP. A minority of players have several max-level alts. A minority of players do pet battles, roleplay, list things for sale on the auction house, do Challenge Mode dungeons, and the list goes on. Virtually the only activity that a clear majority of players participate in is questing and level-up dungeons, but even then there's a sizeable group that views those activities as a nuisance that they have to get through in order to reach their preferred endgame.

And yet, taken together, that collection of minority groups literally IS the World of Warcraft.

Perceptions of feedback are further complicated by the fact that, due to the cooperative nature of the game, players tend to make connections with others who favor a similar playstyle. I'm generalizing a bit here, and there are certainly exceptions, but I'd guess that a typical Gladiator-level player probably doesn't have a WoW social group that consists of people who mostly solo-level alts and explore the world. And most small friends-and-family guilds don't spend a lot of time talking to competitive Mythic raiders. So when there's a change, or a feature, that is aimed at a portion of the game that isn't your personal playstyle, it's easy and in fact natural to have the sense that "everyone" dislikes it.

If we decided to focus on a specific playstyle and elevate that portion of audience above the rest, then we could certainly visibly and consistently address clear feedback from that group, but WoW would become a far smaller game in the process.

Another major consequence of this structure is that if we have some special reward (be it a unique mount, a powerful item, a title, etc.) and we choose to associate it with a particular playstyle, almost by definition a majority of player feedback will be against that decision. For example, if an awesome mount comes exclusively from PvP, the majority of players who don't participate in PvP yet desire the mount would prefer that it were otherwise. If our goal were to please a majority, we would likely have to make a version of that mount also available through raiding, and one also available through outdoor questing and reputation, at the very least. But doing that would dilute the reward itself. Ultimately, the approach we take is usually to tailor different content and rewards that can feel special to different groups, rather than trying to come up with a lowest common denominator that isn't special to anyone.

In closing, I know it often can seem like we don't listen. We are - just to many, many different voices. And it may be that a given change, feature, or reward is simply aimed at a different portion of the playerbase. Or we could be wrong and we haven't realized it yet. So please, keep talking.


Thank you for discussing this, people were definitely generalizing with their feedback and including obvious fallacies such as "Everyone wants X feature"»

— Ion "Watcher" Hazzikostas (New game director and ex lead encounter designer)

[Deleted]

88 upvotes? I get that many likes for the pictures of my scottish fold cats on instagram. which is equally as pathetic, 88 people with millions playing, I wouldn't be bothered

/Thread

[Deleted]

is socially awkwardness and fear of interactions honestly something to start catering too THAT much?

You're assuming things. I prefer to solo in WoW and yet I'm not socially awkward or have fear of interaction. I actually prefer to socialize outside of the game, with my real life friends.

The community in WoW is extremely toxic, spiteful and demanding, no wonder people steer clear of it. Make one mistake in an instance and you get hate messages and risk getting kicked. Whatever happened to helping eachother out? People today tolerate almost nothing.

I also dislike raiding because of the time it demands of your life to stay at the computer, with two jobs, a girlfriend and going out in the weekend I simply can't commit on that level and I don't want to feel bound to the game. I want to play in my own time, at my own pace, whenever I have free time to simply relax and enjoy the game. Raiding doesn't fit that picture sadly. World Quests does offer me fun gameplay that is sometimes semi-challenging.

The only real in-game interaction I've had over the last few months happened in the last 2 days when I finally tried Mythic dungeons. I love the challenge, that's what I liked about raiding as well but Mythic dungeons don't require the same commitment of time. But outside of that I never interact with anyone in-game.

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88 upvotes? I get that many likes for the pictures of my scottish fold cats on instagram. which is equally as pathetic, 88 people with millions playing, I wouldn't be bothered

/Thread

As if millions read the forums? I seriously doubt it, I think the vast majority simply plays the game and that's it.

[Luckx]

88 upvotes? I get that many likes for the pictures of my scottish fold cats on instagram. which is equally as pathetic, 88 people with millions playing, I wouldn't be bothered

/Thread

Those 88 upvotes represent millions of WOW players. Minority of ppl visit forums but those minority represent big number of players that dont visit them.

[Pull My Finger]

Why would I seek out "social interaction"? I'm always fascinated by the plump confidence and silly expectations of the proponents of "more social interaction". There's not a shadow of a doubt in their minds that they're people who one would actually seek out to interact with. It's hilarious.

The reality of the matter is that most gamers - most people actually - just really aren't that interesting to deal with. In fact, most of them are ridiculously boring. Boring, ordinary, uninteresting people, who all think the same, talk the same, it's always the same stupid opinions and the same old vapid conversations. I don't know why all these people think that everyone should constantly strive to "interact" with them.

I'm definitely here for the mechanics, the vast world and wonderful design, etc. "People" is WAY down on the list. There's little to gain from that. Meeting an interesting, funny or witty person is quite rare in this game.

And it's really not that surprising, I don't know why people are shitting their diapers over it so much. How many random people in the shopping mall do you walk by that you'd want to have any kind of closer interaction with? Ask yourself that. They're boring. You're boring. You have nothing to offer to each other. It's people like me that stand out. No offense.

[Yriel]

This is not the game you're looking for. I hate that statement, but with regard to the EU post it is simply correct.

No it's not. Blizzard can make their game anyway they want it. Solo-only or Raid-or-Die or anything between. It's not up to you to decide how this game is to be played..
Casuals can ask Blizzard to make the game more solo-friendly just as the raiders are constanty asking Blizzard to make the game more raid-or-die.
Both are legitimate positions. It's up to Blizzard to decide.

[Deleted]

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As if millions read the forums? I seriously doubt it, I think the vast majority simply plays the game and that's it.

End of the day if you want a solo role playing game go play witcher 3, WoW is a multiplayergame and you should never ever be able to get the same rewards as grouping up with other people. I have a girlfriend, full time job and 6 max level alts, oh and I raid 2 nights a week currently at 3/7 Mythic (scrub level I know)

This game would have died for me a long time ago if it was single player, its not designed for that end goal at all.

Can I ask what do you actually do in game?