Legion - Subtlety discussion

[Flaryon]

Hey guys, my character is only simming at 300k and was wondering if anyone could tell me why. Thought it would be much higher with the boots. My out law sims like 30k higher

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/zealott/

(still need to enchant / gem ring and trinket)

[upliftin]

Hello there,

I've a quick question about Sub spec: At which point you're able to play it ? Mostly talking about gear? I heard it scales at 870+ iLvl but I wonder if I can play it before ? Also is there any stat cap to reeach before?

[Rixan]

Getting pretty frustrated for silly reasons.

Did 320k DPS on Heroic Ursoc last night, guildy posted some logs showing that as about 75% for Sub Rogues at 865ish iLvl

It's just frustrating because I have the aoe cloak and I'm pretty confident that if I had any one of the three single target legendaries I'd be in a much better spot

/childish rant

[T18Z]

Hello there,

I've a quick question about Sub spec: At which point you're able to play it ? Mostly talking about gear? I heard it scales at 870+ iLvl but I wonder if I can play it before ? Also is there any stat cap to reeach before?

Realistically Sub isn't really viable at a competitive level right now without the boots. Even when you get them assassination rogues with the ring/bracers/boots will more often than not beat you, especially on short fights where their cooldowns shine and ours (lol shadowblades) suck.

In regards to stat caps there is none to reach or aim for.

[elcapone]

Realistically Sub isn't really viable at a competitive level right now without the boots. Even when you get them assassination rogues with the ring/bracers/boots will more often than not beat you, especially on short fights where their cooldowns shine and ours (lol shadowblades) suck.

In regards to stat caps there is none to reach or aim for.

kinda true but Emerald Nightmare is one of most boring tiers I have ever played, we're not missing much. My body is ready for nighthold.

[Abalon]

How is six feather fan? Is it a significant boost above a 850 memento? Debating buying a good one for 400k

[D3athsting]

I'd like to play sub but when i switch i lose 50-60k from assa

Should i stack mastery?

[upliftin]

Realistically Sub isn't really viable at a competitive level right now without the boots. Even when you get them assassination rogues with the ring/bracers/boots will more often than not beat you, especially on short fights where their cooldowns shine and ours (lol shadowblades) suck.

In regards to stat caps there is none to reach or aim for.

Ok, thank you for the answer

[milkbonez]

I'd like to play sub but when i switch i lose 50-60k from assa

Should i stack mastery?

You have to sim with each piece you get. Generally mastery is good but reaches a threshold where sims will say to get vers. Crit is ok too on a few pieces but not like assasination. Sometimes the weights can be very very close in which case just go for ilvl. Turns out agility is still a good stat

[FenrizZJ]

How is six feather fan? Is it a significant boost above a 850 memento? Debating buying a good one for 400k

an 840 fan is better than an 855 memento for my current gear (I have both and a BTI). so if you can get 840 at least, then yes. absolutely.

[shaunika123]

Getting pretty frustrated for silly reasons.

Did 320k DPS on Heroic Ursoc last night, guildy posted some logs showing that as about 75% for Sub Rogues at 865ish iLvl

It's just frustrating because I have the aoe cloak and I'm pretty confident that if I had any one of the three single target legendaries I'd be in a much better spot

/childish rant

well i mean, you could just tell them that.
but that cloak is pretty decent in ST as well , the two main rogues in our guil are me and another guy he has the cloak(and sephuz) i have the ring(and pants) and his shurriken dmg is usually about equal to my insignia dmg on ST, obviously you need to subtract the opportunity cost of casting a Sstorm instead of shadowstrike but nevertheless it's closer than you'd think
and on AOE that cloak is paying off big time (and remember 7/7 fights on mythic EN have at least one extra target)

[Deleted]

What am I doing wrong? I sim to about 330k going by the 'elite' option.
I end up with a max dps of about 300k-310k, but usually lower in raid fights (so way past a burst phase)

My opener is; (pre-opener I symbols etc.)
SS-SS-SS-Nightblade
SD+Shadowblades-SS-SS-Evis-SS-SS-Evis
After that my rotation is just SD into 2xSS then finisher (nightblade if its about to fall off, otherwise evis) into 2xSS and finisher again

My problem is I end up losing my SD stacks eventually and sit in down phases spamming backstab. Is that supposed to happen? I don't have any legendaries.

A couple of situation I'm confused about as well ->
Sometimes after a SS-SS-Finisher-SS-SS-Finisher I end up on the other side of that with more than 70 energy. I assume that's because weaponmaster procs the finisher twice. But what do I do in that situation, as I end up 'wasting' energy by shadowdancing at more than 70. Should I backstab first, then do the SD rotation, or should I just not bother?

Also I may sometimes get unlucky with a SS-SS and not get more combo points than 2. Should I wait until I proc an off-hand strike for the extra combo point, or should I use my finisher at 4 points regardless

[Sephiroso]

What am I doing wrong? I sim to about 330k going by the 'elite' option.
I end up with a max dps of about 300k-310k, but usually lower in raid fights (so way past a burst phase)

My opener is; (pre-opener I symbols etc.)
SS-SS-SS-Nightblade
SD+Shadowblades-SS-SS-Evis-SS-SS-Evis
After that my rotation is just SD into 2xSS then finisher (nightblade if its about to fall off, otherwise evis) into 2xSS and finisher again

My problem is I end up losing my SD stacks eventually and sit in down phases spamming backstab. Is that supposed to happen? I don't have any legendaries.

A couple of situation I'm confused about as well ->
Sometimes after a SS-SS-Finisher-SS-SS-Finisher I end up on the other side of that with more than 70 energy. I assume that's because weaponmaster procs the finisher twice. But what do I do in that situation, as I end up 'wasting' energy by shadowdancing at more than 70. Should I backstab first, then do the SD rotation, or should I just not bother?

Also I may sometimes get unlucky with a SS-SS and not get more combo points than 2. Should I wait until I proc an off-hand strike for the extra combo point, or should I use my finisher at 4 points regardless

For one, why are you using shadow dance before shadowblades? You're wasting a gcd of shadow dance doing that. Are you using vanish? Cause i didn't see any mention of it.

[Scharin]

For one, why are you using shadow dance before shadowblades? You're wasting a gcd of shadow dance doing that. Are you using vanish? Cause i didn't see any mention of it.

Shadow blades is off the gcd, fyi.

[Deleted]

Yes, I use Vanish too. And as mentioned shadowblades is off GDC so doesn't change much

[wombats23]

just got the insignia of ravenholdt and got a couple of questions.

since insignia of ravenholdt does not proc off of shuriken storm, does that change when you're supposed to use BS or SS over shuriken storm? also, does the ring have a cap on the number of targets it can hit for full damage? or is it considered a single target hit on each target within the vicinity?

[shaunika123]

just got the insignia of ravenholdt and got a couple of questions.

since insignia of ravenholdt does not proc off of shuriken storm, does that change when you're supposed to use BS or SS over shuriken storm? also, does the ring have a cap on the number of targets it can hit for full damage? or is it considered a single target hit on each target within the vicinity?

well i only use storm if i wont have to cast a second one for evis (IE 4-5 targets+) with the ring
i dont know about the AOE cap but i'd assume it has one above 20 just like regular AOE

[Tripax]

I received Denial of the Half-Giants yesterday. "Your finishing moves extend the duration of Shadow Blades by 0.3 sec for each combo point spent."

Do they change my priorities/playstyle in any way? Or shall I just enjoy the extra long SB's?

[lolpve]

well i mean, you could just tell them that.
but that cloak is pretty decent in ST as well , the two main rogues in our guil are me and another guy he has the cloak(and sephuz) i have the ring(and pants) and his shurriken dmg is usually about equal to my insignia dmg on ST, obviously you need to subtract the opportunity cost of casting a Sstorm instead of shadowstrike but nevertheless it's closer than you'd think
and on AOE that cloak is paying off big time (and remember 7/7 fights on mythic EN have at least one extra target)

The cloak is absolutely insane for any AoE even a very brief add phase can add massive damage. There aren't many fights that are pure single target.

Plus it's funny as hell in world pvp to do 75% of someone's health in one global. The cloak makes sub rogues world pvp gods.

[Nixl]

Did they change the (4) on tier set? I could swear it was 50% to generate a combo point rather than 100%.

http://www.wowhead.com/item-set=1289...ade-battlegear

"edit" actually looking at the changelog of the effect it seems they did in fact changed it to 100% from 50%. That's a big deal surely? Though it might lead to a lot of wasted combo points.