Fire Mage Opener

[Bombercloner]

Pretty simple question. I think I am sitting at about 57-58 crit (depends on DMC trinket). I am also a Troll using the Wriggling Sinew Trinket.

I have been pre-casting Pyro and then spam casting fireball when I get a crit I Fire Blast > RoP > Combust Yada Yada (I know what to do from here)

Is it better to wait for two simultaneous fireball crits instead of wasting a Fire Blast on set-up? What do y'all think?

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This is what the Icy-Veins guide says:

"Before activating Combustion you should generate a Hot Streak. You should also try and save at least one charge of Fire Blast, though preferably both charges will be available."

It says you can do it either way. I definitely try to line up a Hot Streak proc with 2 fire blasts still available on all of my combustions after the first one, but I like to get things moving right away at the beginning.

It's a question of should I delay combustion to ensure I can pyro>fireblast 4 times vs 3 times?

[Deleted]

Im opening like this:

Wriggling Sinew-> Prepot -> Precast Fireball -> Rune of Power -> Phoenix's Flames -> Combustion -> Fireblast if Precast wasn't crit ->Pyroblast

I may add another Fireball before ROP if no BL.

[Bombercloner]

Im opening like this:

Wriggling Sinew-> Prepot -> Precast Fireball -> Rune of Power -> Phoenix's Flames -> Combustion -> Fireblast if Precast wasn't crit ->Pyroblast

I may add another Fireball before ROP if no BL.

I have been popping Wriggling Sinew with Combustion and Troll Racial at the end of my RoP cast (With a Hot Streak Already cooked). It seems like my Damage from the trinket varies quite a lot (1.8mil on opener all the way down to 400k). Is the main goal of the trinket to make sure that it procs during a RoP?

[PurechaosSK]

Without heroism i hard cast fire ball 3-4 times to consume a few stacks before going into my real ROP/combustion.

With heroism i just do the normal start right. pop sinew, 1-2 casts fishing for heating up then into my openter

[waat]

I have been popping Wriggling Sinew with Combustion and Troll Racial at the end of my RoP cast (With a Hot Streak Already cooked). It seems like my Damage from the trinket varies quite a lot (1.8mil on opener all the way down to 400k). Is the main goal of the trinket to make sure that it procs during a RoP?

It needs ROP and combustion

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i don't have sinew but the opener would be the same if there is bloodlust

prepot + fireball at 2sec on the pull counter
ROP, combust at end of ROP cast, fireblast if the fireball was a crit, phoenix flames + fireblast if not, insta pyro + fireblast + flame on, fireblast, pyro, fireblast, pyro, phoenix flames, pyro, phoenix flames, (ROP usually runs out here, cast the second one as soon as it runs out), pyro, phoenix flames, pyro, fireblast, pyro.

[Dikka]

Is it better to wait for two simultaneous fireball crits instead of wasting a Fire Blast on set-up? What do y'all think?

No. Basically reliable opening > optimal opening.

To get Hot Streak with FBalls you need:
a. Two consecutive FBall crits from the start. Probability - 36% with 60% crit.
b. Non crit -> crit -> crit for last three casts (probability and why - home work )

You may calculate average expected number of casts if you want... and then you will find out - it doesn't worth it.


My opening:

Wriggling Sinew-> Prepot -> Precast Fireball -> Rune of Power -> Combustion -> Phoenix's Flames -> (FB if precast doesn't crit) -> Pyro -> FB + Pyro -> (FB + Pyro if precast does crit) -> Flames On -> FB + Pyro -> FB + Pyro -> Phoenix's Flames -> Pyro -> ...

With this Wriggling Sinew will proc during RoP+Combustion.

This is what the Icy-Veins guide says:

"Before activating Combustion you should generate a Hot Streak. You should also try and save at least one charge of Fire Blast, though preferably both charges will be available."

True in general, not true for opening.
Reason - in the mid-fight you usually don't have 2 stacks of FB+3 stacks of Phoenix's Flames. So you need that extra Hot Streak. Usualy this is not a problem and delays Combustion by few sec tops.

It's a question of should I delay combustion to ensure I can pyro>fireblast 4 times vs 3 times?

No.
Edit: in mid-fight you should delay till Hot Streak, but not till Hot Streak+2 stacks of FB.

[Bombercloner]

Thanks for the advice guys! Very helpful!

[waat]

in midfight i never delay combustion for anything besides mechanics that prevent me from having uptime in ROP. i will bank a hotstreak for a few seconds prior to combust coming off cd, and i always have 2 fireblasts + at least 2 phoenix flames available when combust comes back up.

[shadycharacter1]

you can also use cinderstorm to get 5 stacks of crit damage instantly

prepot -> pre-cast pyroblast -> PF -> rune of power -> cinderstorm(cast combustion as you finish casting)-> fireblast if pyro didn't crit -> pyro spam as usual

pretty good damage boost if the time limit only allows 2 combustions

[Wenoxar]

With heroism:

-12s: pop up Wriggling Sinew
-2s: prepot->fireball
0s: heroism -> rune of power -> combustion -> //while casting rune of power your pre-pull fireball will hit the target. you have to check if the fireball did crit or it didn't

a) if fireball did crit: fireblast -> pyroblast -> fireblast -> pyroblast -> flame on -> fireblast -> pyroblast -> fireblast -> pyroblast -> phoenix -> pyroblast -> phoenix -> pyroblast -> rune of power -> phoenix -> pyroblast -> ...
b) if fireball didn't crit: phoenix -> fireblast -> pyroblast -> fireblast -> pyroblast -> flame on -> fireblast -> pyroblast -> fireblast -> pyroblast -> phoenix -> pyroblast -> phoenix -> pyroblast -> rune of power -> ...

I consider casting chaining two rune of powers in a row a really good idea, because second rune of power boosts the high-as-hell ignite damage you built with combustion. That is: save two of your rop charges for combustion.

I consider not using Wriggling Sinew on cooldown a good idea as well. What you want to do is delay Wriggling Sinew by ~60 seconds, so you will use it for your 3rd (and 5th, 7th etc if fight is long enough) combustion. MAKE SURE your wriggling sinew explodes only if you have both Rune of Power and Combustion up. You want your trinket to explode for that juicy 2-3m damage, not some ugly 700k :-)

Without heroism I do precast fireball then use another fireball and then start the opener. I have quite a lot of haste, you might want to precast 3 fireballs.

[Sylvaeres]

I'll say this now, you should absolutely never ever ever go into combustion without 2 charges of fireplace + flame on. Any opener that does differently will be massively lower and you won't be able to keep up with the charts

[Deleted]

Which opener is better. (dont have sinew)

Fireball - fireball- FB (if hotstreak) - RoP+comb - Pyro etc etc
Fireball - RoP+comb - PF (if no hotstreak) - FB etc etc

[Deleted]

Just returned to the game and doing some reading up, how come you're precasting FB and not pyro now?

[Essem]

Just returned to the game and doing some reading up, how come you're precasting FB and not pyro now?

Its so you dont waste 4 seconds of the prepot casting a pyro.

[Deleted]

Its so you dont waste 4 seconds of the prepot casting a pyro.

Can't you just cast pyro and while it's travelling, prepot.

[Deleted]

Pre pot -> Pre cast fireball -> RoP -> PF -> combustion -> (If precast wasnt crit "else skip this") Pyroblast -> fb -> pyro ->keep spamming if you out of fb use scorch to crit

[idpsutank]

Do we pre-pot with deadly grace of,the stat potion? I just started playing my mage.

[Biomega]

Can't you just cast pyro and while it's travelling, prepot.

TECHNICALLY this is possible, however the risk of entering combat and thus wasting the 2nd pot is way too high. You'd need ridiculously precise timing not just from yourself but from every other raid member as well.

Do we pre-pot with deadly grace of,the stat potion? I just started playing my mage.

Deadly Grace deals more damage in most scenarios, however on heavy AoE/cleave Prolonged Power can be better. At the moment that is basically only Ilgynoth.

[LaplaceNoMa]

Just as a general advice: avoid icy-veins for all mage-related things. Their current mage section is beyond salvation and even noxxic would be a more trustworthy source.

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