Worst Patch Since...?

[A dot Ham]

real question is why do you even pvp?

Is this helpful to a discussion on PvP?

[LLiass]

"No counter possible!!!"

Reminds me of all the derps that were bitching because their mongo cleave combo couldn't beat Turbocleave in WoD. Meanwhile most comps that took effort to "play well" were consistent rolling over it for rating.


In conclusion: Git gud.

What can i counter with my dh ? I'd like to know which comps i'm likely to climb up the ladder against.

[orgonutil]

wow def isnot for pvp, acept that or just be hungry when you dont play with fotm spec

[Bearilla]

Frost DKs are completely out of control in 7.1

Frost mage burst is unreasonable with ~1.7 million damage in two or so button presses in a few seconds.

Desto does too much burst but at least dies easily too.

I don't agree with the portion about Frost DK (or other classes but I main FDK so I know more about it). No, I am not high rated and no, I do not play many 3s BUT before this patch there was no Frost DK presence. We were essentially a free kill. Following that last statement we received ZERO buffs to defensive. We received a MUCH needed dmg buff. We have crap mobility, are pretty squishy and shit utility. If you think Frost DK's are hard to kill then you are not doing it right. You have to think about how you play against a Frost DK now because if we get close we can actually do something now.

I am not saying the current state of PVP is balanced but to single out classes that were literal rolling turds, now that we can actually kill something, seems dumb and whiny.

[Ryzeth]

ITT: An OP who keeps crying and saying he's done with the thread when people disagree with him; doesn't actually stop posting after saying it.
"2016 people" who still think a single person handles the entirety of balance-related issues.
Lots of whiners who feel like they'd actually 'git gud' if the game was "balanced better." Who're you trying to fool, even.

What can i counter with my dh ? I'd like to know which comps i'm likely to climb up the ladder against.

Comps don't counter people, my good man. People counter people. Take WoD for instance with all the 1800 Shatterplays (godcomp, to all you modern plebs) getting steamrolled by turbocleave, saying turbocleave was shit and unbeatable. Meanwhile people like Jahmilli and Pojke were beating it pretty consistently, playing said comp (obviously not with one another, before one of you derps point out them being US/EU respectively).

[LLiass]

ITT: An OP who keeps crying and saying he's done with the thread when people disagree with him; doesn't actually stop posting after saying it.
"2016 people" who still think a single person handles the entirety of balance-related issues.
Lots of whiners who feel like they'd actually 'git gud' if the game was "balanced better." Who're you trying to fool, even.

Comps don't counter people, my good man. People counter people. Take WoD for instance with all the 1800 Shatterplays (godcomp, to all you modern plebs) getting steamrolled by turbocleave, saying turbocleave was shit and unbeatable. Meanwhile people like Jahmilli and Pojke were beating it pretty consistently, playing said comp (obviously not with one another, before one of you derps point out them being US/EU respectively).

Alright then, i was afraid since my class was incredibly unrepresented in higher rankings, but i just need to play twice better than my opponent to get the same result, everything is fine !

[Ryzeth]

Dh isn't "bad" there's just no real reason to bring one over.. Any other melee, really. Just wait until next season and the stigma will wear down. Same with S5 when DKs were broken but no one really wanted one, because being a new class most people just figured the person playing it would be new/bad at it.

[LLiass]

Dh isn't "bad" there's just no real reason to bring one over.. Any other melee, really. Just wait until next season and the stigma will wear down. Same with S5 when DKs were broken but no one really wanted one, because being a new class most people just figured the person playing it would be new/bad at it.

Except, as you said, there is no reason to bring one over any melee, which if it doesn't make it bad, still make it the worst (melee). And once i'm playing at my current level in arena, i shouldn't be able to win against most, which is a pretty crappy feeling.

And with the new dk&lock madness, with a side of ww, i've no idea how i'm supposed to play in order to help my healer survive, or kill the enemy healer faster than them.

[Ryzeth]

Well yes. Something can be the "worst" but still not be awful. Unless it's ele shaman. Then you're fucked with how mobile melee are now. Personally I'd rather a DH over a warrior; aoe stun without needing to talent for it, significantly better sticking power to monks (important this season with just how many there are), ranged slow that also has a huge DoT component with bloodlet. There's always the threat of mana break as well against mages who spellsteal a ton, or ret/boomkin/enhance etc who stop to help heal and oom themselves (obviously you cant play this every game). Darkness imo is better than commanding shout as a "help your healer" cd.

WW is really just there for the damage/mobility. Its ability to save a healer is not that great. Walking dead cleave has good peeling because of the dk, not the monk. And that's about the only comp you're gonna see windwalker in. As for what to play with a Dh, I dunno really. I don't know many, and I'm not getting one from group finder. When I had "success" with it, I was playing dh/warr/healer and dh/mage/healer. I can't see why DH/DK wouldn't work as a sort of modified walking dead cleave though.

[LLiass]

I do think DH are around as useful as warrior, but since they too are in an awful spot, it doesn't really cheer me up. I believe the mortal strike from warrior make them more desirable.

As for the comparison with ww, their burst is so much more deadly it's crazy. And they have better stun/control abilities. Our stun is 1mn cd with fury cost, and our ban (1mn cd 3sec dura, really shitty as far as control goes) is preventing us to play manabreak (with how quick game are played this patch, manabreak should not be good anyway).

DH is in a shitty place, but it's not even the main problem : DK are way more stupid than assassins rogues were, and destrolock is doing glacial spike level dmg without any prep needed.

[Deleted]

IT was always pretty much first comp then skill. I remember S1 in TBC. 2200 2v2 lock + rogue 3v3 2400 mage/lock/priest/hpala.lock (we interchanged) and almost 2,6k 5v5 with 2x afflock 1x spriest rogue + hpala. Insane pressure + survi and CC. I did arena very casually in later years but It's always about comps. Have people forgotten RMP already ?

- - - Updated - - -

DH is in a shitty place, but it's not even the main problem : DK are way more stupid than assassins rogues were, and destrolock is doing glacial spike level dmg without any prep needed.

Consider overal advantages and disadvantages. DK doesn't have cloak/evasion/vanish/stun/sprint/ and other shit that Sin rogues do so it's not a fair comparison to compare spec which had everything to spec that only has dmg.

Same with destro vs mage

[Deleted]

Well, when you have one of your top people (Ion/Celestalon, who is trained as a lawyer [bullshit artist] not a game dev) that plays WoW on a Wacom tablet, you know they don't give a rat's ass except for padding the corporate bottom line.

they're even deleting threads now on US fora of being too critical about devs. as i said before, they know pretty well what they are doing. this is not just incompetence. too bad i got suckered into it again

[Deleted]

Consider overal advantages and disadvantages. DK doesn't have cloak/evasion/vanish/stun/sprint/ and other shit that Sin rogues do so it's not a fair comparison to compare spec which had everything to spec that only has dmg.

Same with destro vs mage

The real difference is stuns, 30% heal reduce poison and grip vs shadowstep, your list can easily be fitted to dk skills

Cloak = anti-magic shield
Evasion = icebound
sprint = ghostwalk
vanish as part of stealth is rogue's gimmick, he pays for that with being more squishy and it's hard countered by several classes.

[Deleted]

The real difference is stuns, 30% heal reduce poison and grip vs shadowstep, your list can easily be fitted to dk skills

Cloak = anti-magic shield
Evasion = icebound
sprint = ghostwalk
vanish as part of stealth is rogue's gimmick, he pays for that with being more squishy and it's hard countered by several classes.

Do you seriously compare 10 second 100% dodge on what? 2m CD? with 20% DR on 3m CD? I'll take dodge

Sprint lasts longer, gives more speed. wraithwalk lasts 3s you cannot use your skills, can still be rooted, can still be stunned. if that happens you don't get a thing. I will happily trade WW with your sprint, thank you

Cloak of Shadows is better than AMS in every way. Removes stuff from you and makes you immune, period. AMS lasts 5s, doesn't remove stuff (removes only for frost) and has a fixed amount of absorb. Ill happily take cloak of shadows

You ignored CC part (stun) and yeah I would like to have your stun

[Deleted]

Do you seriously compare 10 second 100% dodge on what? 2m CD? with 20% DR on 3m CD? I'll take dodge

Sprint lasts longer, gives more speed. wraithwalk lasts 3s you cannot use your skills, can still be rooted, can still be stunned. if that happens you don't get a thing. I will happily trade WW with your sprint, thank you

Cloak of Shadows is better than AMS in every way. Removes stuff from you and makes you immune, period. AMS lasts 5s, doesn't remove stuff (removes only for frost) and has a fixed amount of absorb. Ill happily take cloak of shadows

You ignored CC part (stun) and yeah I would like to have your stun

Compared frost vs assa as that were the specs mentioned earlier and they fit closer together, otherwise you could list Blind/smoke for rogues or shadowdance movement with sub and pets for dk wich would broaden the difference.

Back on topic Evasion vs Icebound depends on the enemy, evasion is useless against castercomps and can be countered by a stun /attacking from the back while icebound has a lower benefit vs hunters and meeles unable to stun/attack you at the back. Stun immunity is also likely the reason icebound got 3min. Cloak is if course better on paper but AMS serves the same purpose and the shield is big enough to fullfill the same job without much difference.

Lastly i mentioned stuns being one of the main differences in the very first sentence.

[Himora]

real question is why do you even pvp?

this. Play overwatch, LoL, Dota.. ect ect. PVP is an abortion in WoW.

[Caolela]

they're even deleting threads now on US fora of being too critical about devs. as i said before, they know pretty well what they are doing. this is not just incompetence. too bad i got suckered into it again

They did the same thing on HotS forums a year ago during its beta when they were told X, Y, or Z was bad or unwanted by players, and they've been deleting posts on WoW forums for a long time. Anything that doesn't fit their current spin or gets too close to the truth they don't want people to discuss. You end up with a happy! - joy! alternate reality of fanboys and paid shills - but not a true assessment of the game.

It's Blizzard playing the 'Three Monkeys' routine (See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil) about their shit designs and devs.

[Swizzington]

Balance was better before the patch. Ass rogues and enhance was pretty bad, but frost dk/mage and destro locks are just fucking stupid now.

It's weird that a mid season patch could actually make balance worse. I mean they buffed frost mage damage for pve and didn't think about how that would matter in pvp? Erm?

[Deleted]

pvp this patch is the worst its ever been to be fair........so many unbalanced specs :/

[Mafic]

Is participation improving?

They did another round of buffs to artifact rewards to BG's/arena rewards post patch 7.1. Is that enough?